Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

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Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 03 Oct 2020, 5:07 pm

One major problem with shooting on the farm is the shotcups getting lost in the grass, that the cows then eat.
I'm recovering a good percentage but there are still too many missing.

I know I can use bio-deg wads, but I think I prefer to have a shotcup keeping the shot from touching the bores, particularly if I use any steel shot.

So, are there advantages/disadvantages to switching to card/paper/cork/felt wads rather than shotcups?

Does anybody make bio-deg shotcups?

Are there other options for bio-degradeable shooting?
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Oct 2020, 5:27 pm

"Does anybody make bio-deg shotcups?"

Mmm, I thought they all were for yonks now. I guess just try Mr google! Or just grab the ones you use and leave out on the weather for a few months. You will know then.

If you go back to the old cork and card wads will be fine with lead shot. But because the shot gets come minor damage from the barrel the patterns tend to open up. Heavier or harder shot is less effected.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Blr243 » 03 Oct 2020, 6:17 pm

No idea blade but I give u 10 out of 10 for looking after the stock and the paddocks
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Nomis » 03 Oct 2020, 7:50 pm

I believe you might be interested in this https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/media-event ... eable-wad-

They just hit stores in the last few weeks and Nioa TV on YouTube just did a piece on them.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 04 Oct 2020, 6:34 am

The Brits sell biodegradable shotcups,if i can work out how to share the link I will. I looked into them myself for my own reasons
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 04 Oct 2020, 6:35 am

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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by cracker » 04 Oct 2020, 11:14 am

i think back in the day of black powder and brass shells they used sheeps wool?
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 04 Oct 2020, 6:36 pm

cracker wrote:i think back in the day of black powder and brass shells they used sheeps wool?

You can use anything that doesn't readily burn as wadding
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2020, 7:08 pm

bigpete wrote:https://www.claygame.co.uk/12ga-fibre-shot-cups-34mm-38mm-and-55mm-pd82



Those look good. They say no sales outside of UK but I'll email and ask.
Very bloody expensive though, $25/100, compared to about $15/250 here for plastic ones - more than four-times the price without postage.
But if I can get them I will.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2020, 7:15 pm

cracker wrote:i think back in the day of black powder and brass shells they used sheeps wool?


There is a vast array of stuff that can be used between the powder and the shot, but I think I prefer a shot cup that keeps the pellets separated from the bores.
I'm wondering if paper will do the job, similar to a paper-patched bullet.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2020, 7:20 pm

Blr243 wrote:No idea blade but I give u 10 out of 10 for looking after the stock and the paddocks


We love our animals :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uf7X6vL40Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8CYCkqC4FQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66s00rxti0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM1-kHiNaYQ

Had our first calf of the season last night :-)
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 04 Oct 2020, 7:31 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:https://www.claygame.co.uk/12ga-fibre-shot-cups-34mm-38mm-and-55mm-pd82



Those look good. They say no sales outside of UK but I'll email and ask.
Very bloody expensive though, $25/100, compared to about $15/250 here for plastic ones - more than four-times the price without postage.
But if I can get them I will.


Be interesting to see if you can. I'd be in for some possibly
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2020, 7:35 pm

bigpete wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:https://www.claygame.co.uk/12ga-fibre-shot-cups-34mm-38mm-and-55mm-pd82



Those look good. They say no sales outside of UK but I'll email and ask.
Very bloody expensive though, $25/100, compared to about $15/250 here for plastic ones - more than four-times the price without postage.
But if I can get them I will.


Be interesting to see if you can. I'd be in for some possibly


I've asked if they can supply them, or direct me to somebody else that can.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Oct 2020, 9:28 pm

bladeracer wrote:One major problem with shooting on the farm is the shotcups getting lost in the grass, that the cows then eat.
I'm recovering a good percentage but there are still too many missing.

I know I can use bio-deg wads, but I think I prefer to have a shotcup keeping the shot from touching the bores, particularly if I use any steel shot.

So, are there advantages/disadvantages to switching to card/paper/cork/felt wads rather than shotcups?

Does anybody make bio-deg shotcups?

Are there other options for bio-degradeable shooting?



Perhaps this sounds stupid.

Years ago paper was used to patch bullets.

Could you make a "wad" with fingers using heavy paper, or very light card board. roll a tube, tape, cut 4 fingers. This would sit on top of a traditional cork, felt or card wad. Should work but how effective, who knows. Your not shooting off many rounds.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2020, 9:36 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:One major problem with shooting on the farm is the shotcups getting lost in the grass, that the cows then eat.
I'm recovering a good percentage but there are still too many missing.

I know I can use bio-deg wads, but I think I prefer to have a shotcup keeping the shot from touching the bores, particularly if I use any steel shot.

So, are there advantages/disadvantages to switching to card/paper/cork/felt wads rather than shotcups?

Does anybody make bio-deg shotcups?

Are there other options for bio-degradeable shooting?



Perhaps this sounds stupid.

Years ago paper was used to patch bullets.

Could you make a "wad" with fingers using heavy paper, or very light card board. roll a tube, tape, cut 4 fingers. This would sit on top of a traditional cork, felt or card wad. Should work but how effective, who knows. Your not shooting off many rounds.


I still use paper to patch bullets, even jacketed ones :-)

My plan tomorrow is to roll some paper tubes and glue an over-shot card in the bottom. I'll have to use a lot of paper discs to take up the space of the normal compression wad but I think it'll work okay.

Actually, this is only an issue when I am shooting lots, like at clay targets. Losing the occasional wad is not such a big deal, but covering an area with plastic wads is no good for the cows at all. I think they would spit them out, but only if they happen to notice one in a gob-full of hay or grass.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Oct 2020, 9:50 pm

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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2020, 10:18 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here you go. Called paper cups.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/thre ... ds.108030/


Thanks OB!
I hadn't thought to Google that, saves me some research :-)
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Oct 2020, 10:24 pm

Actually looks like a good BP forum
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 05 Oct 2020, 12:53 am

Oldbloke wrote:Here you go. Called paper cups.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/thre ... ds.108030/


Was going to suggest that lol
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 05 Oct 2020, 12:54 am

Oldbloke wrote:Actually looks like a good BP forum


Look up some of Britsmoothy's posts
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2020, 12:49 pm

Managed a couple of experimental shots yesterday, in the rain.

I charged a hull with 21gn of AP70N, and seated an over-powder card on that. Then I tightly rolled a 140mm-long strip of 2.2mm corrugated cardboard into a 20mm-tall cylinder for a wad, and seated that on the charge, with another card on top of that. Then I rolled a 55mm-long piece into a 20mm-tall tube, cut five slits three-quarters down it, and seated that, then poured 330gn of #7-1/2 into interior, put an over-shot card on top, and crimped it.

It made a "fffftttt", registered 72fps on the chrono, and I saw the pellets scattering the grass perhaps 10m ahead of me. The wad was still in the bore, having only traveled about 100mm :-) I pushed it out and it was obvious that the charge had blown through the centre of the over-powder card, then through the hollow-core "wad". It had just enough punch to get the pellets (and the tube they were in) to the muzzle. The hull still had at least half the powder charge sitting in it, unburned. Clearly not making enough pressure.
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So next I punched out a pile of corrugated cardboard discs and used a compressed stack of those to make the 20mm-tall wad. Everything else was the same, except that I didn't bother cutting the slits in the tube as I didn't expect it to work any better than the previous attempt. This one made 647fps, took a piece out of the clay at 30m, scattered a few pellets across the paper, and punched the cardboard strip I'd used for the tube, through the 3mm MDF target backing. Not bad. An awful lot of burned powder left in the barrel, but it looks like it has potential at least. There should've been about 275 pellets in the load, and I count about 80 within the circle, and another 18 on the paper, with some very large gaps in the pattern. The pellets penetrated the MDF but are just below flush with the surface. This with the .685" extended turkey-choke still.
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Worth playing with some shot-cup designs with this I think. And making cork wads instead of cardboard.

Had our second calf yesterday, which tied me up as she's our problem mother. But her third is good and she's getting the hang of it finally.

I need to concentrate on some 7mm-08 stuff now, but it'll give me time to bounce some more ideas around regarding stock-safe wads.
Last edited by bladeracer on 07 Oct 2020, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2020, 1:07 pm

No good, they require an export licence even for wads.
But they did ask me to put them onto a likely they could chat with about becoming our local importer, so I directed them to Top Shot, I think they're the best bet.


bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:https://www.claygame.co.uk/12ga-fibre-shot-cups-34mm-38mm-and-55mm-pd82



Those look good. They say no sales outside of UK but I'll email and ask.
Very bloody expensive though, $25/100, compared to about $15/250 here for plastic ones - more than four-times the price without postage.
But if I can get them I will.


Be interesting to see if you can. I'd be in for some possibly


I've asked if they can supply them, or direct me to somebody else that can.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Oct 2020, 4:59 pm

I think using the corrugated cardboard The Way You Are creates a very poor seal and allows gases to pass through the corrugations in the cardboard.

Suggest you use normal light weight cardboard such as from a cereal packet yeah and don't roll it create a cup.

In addition you need to insure crimp pressure is high enough this is very important if it is low powder will not ignite or burnt correctly there for you need to increase the amount of wads cork cardboard or whatever beneath the cup of shot this will increase the length of the column and therefore the crimp pressure .

I'm not certain but I think the powder you're using is more suitable for heavy shot loads just check the ADI manual but I think you might need a fast of burning powder such as as30n
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2020, 5:23 pm

Oldbloke wrote:I think using the corrugated cardboard The Way You Are creates a very poor seal and allows gases to pass through the corrugations in the cardboard.

Suggest you use normal light weight cardboard such as from a cereal packet yeah and don't roll it create a cup.

In addition you need to insure crimp pressure is high enough this is very important if it is low powder will not ignite or burnt correctly there for you need to increase the amount of wads cork cardboard or whatever beneath the cup of shot this will increase the length of the column and therefore the crimp pressure .

I'm not certain but I think the powder you're using is more suitable for heavy shot loads just check the ADI manual but I think you might need a fast of burning powder such as as30n


Yep, it's not sealing well at all. I'm punching out cork discs now :-)

How does crimp pressure change? If the column is short it just over-crimps and the shot falls out the gap.

Yep, I want to swap to AS50N and AP50N, and try Trailboss as it's even faster than those.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Oct 2020, 6:17 pm

Ha, ha. See my pm.
I got confused.

Edit: pic below. This is just paper but basic design seems to work. Just needs some refinement to get a reasonable cardboard cup.

Paper wad 2.jpg
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Paper wad 1.jpeg
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Wad pressure is important. If its low the powder will not burn well. Solution is to add wads under the shot wad. In your case trial and error till u get a good crimp.

Edit. Your trying to duplicate a factory crimp. If it is not firm you need more wads under the shot.

Fuk, I hate auto correct
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Oct 2020, 6:47 pm

About 20 wads here. Beer is crap anywsy. Lol

20201007_194534.jpg
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by Gadge » 08 Oct 2020, 3:05 am

G'day all,

What Eley in the UK do, is to 'turn back the clock', and revert to an old-time [as used from the blackpowder days, until the 1960s] multi-component punched wad column, for their 'bio friendly' loads.

This basically consists of a hard cardboard overpowder wad, sized to grip the case walls, then a felt/fibre/cork cushion wad, then the shot charge.
Then, if a roll crimp is used, a thin overshot wad - this is necessary for 12ga 2.5" Black Powder loadings, as required for older Brit made guns.

Commercial 'Circle Fly' wads are available from Forbes Wholesale in Vic, but just buy an 18mm wad punch, and you're set to make your own!
Wad Materials:
Overpowder: 2.5mm+/= hard cardboard

Cushion: wool felt, carpet underlay felt, or cork floor tiles, also that heavy waxed corrugated cardboard used for fruit/veg boxes. I 'edge lube' mine using 1+1 Lard/Beeswax hard setting lube, and the tool shown below. It's just two 2c pieces soft soldered to the tips of a large pair of lab forceps.

IMG_0542.JPG
Wad lubing tool
IMG_0542.JPG (115.66 KiB) Viewed 5664 times


Overshot: If roll crimping, wine [or port!] cask box cardboard. If you get star crimps that are 'leaky', a square of paper on top of the shot charge will stop the leakage.

The attached ASJ article on Black Powder Shotgun explains all this concisely...
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by bigpete » 08 Oct 2020, 5:17 am

Gadge wrote:G'day all,

What Eley in the UK do, is to 'turn back the clock', and revert to an old-time [as used from the blackpowder days, until the 1960s] multi-component punched wad column, for their 'bio friendly' loads.

This basically consists of a hard cardboard overpowder wad, sized to grip the case walls, then a felt/fibre/cork cushion wad, then the shot charge.
Then, if a roll crimp is used, a thin overshot wad - this is necessary for 12ga 2.5" Black Powder loadings, as required for older Brit made guns.

Commercial 'Circle Fly' wads are available from Forbes Wholesale in Vic, but just buy an 18mm wad punch, and you're set to make your own!
Wad Materials:
Overpowder: 2.5mm+/= hard cardboard

Cushion: wool felt, carpet underlay felt, or cork floor tiles, also that heavy waxed corrugated cardboard used for fruit/veg boxes. I 'edge lube' mine using 1+1 Lard/Beeswax hard setting lube, and the tool shown below. It's just two 2c pieces soft soldered to the tips of a large pair of lab forceps.

IMG_0542.JPG


Overshot: If roll crimping, wine [or port!] cask box cardboard. If you get star crimps that are 'leaky', a square of paper on top of the shot charge will stop the leakage.

The attached ASJ article on Black Powder Shotgun explains all this concisely...


Hes trying to make biodegradable shot cups....loose shot in a shell is pretty easy to make.
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by wrenchman » 08 Oct 2020, 6:17 am

Mec makes a wad that's biodegradable midway sales them I have tryed to post a link but my tablet is not letting me
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Re: Bio-Deg wads/shotcups?

Post by wrenchman » 08 Oct 2020, 6:23 am

Rio makes a line of shells you might check with them
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