Case Life and accuracy

[5Tom]

If I were to use the same brass for reloading my .243 rifle many times over, will it eventually degrade accuracy without showing signs of splitting?

How many neck-resizes would you put on a case before replacing it with newer (or once fired) brass?

[yoshie]

I've found that accuracy from reloads is usually better. I had a 30-06 that shot 2 1/2 inch groups with factories, when I reloaded the cases the groups lost an inch. Could have been due to better bullets or powder or the cases were formed to the chamber better. I'm not sure you'd measure any loss accuracy from reload 7 to reload 8 for example. You could find loss of neck tension a contributing factor to loss of accuracy.

[Apollo]

The number of reloads you get from any cases depends on how you treat them in the process. Calibre and quality of cases has a big effect.

Full length resizing, just neck sizing, annealing etc.

Some calibres are hard on cases, some are kind like a 30BR using Lapua cases and known to be reloaded about 50 times or more.

The .243W just neck sizing maybe 10 or more but again depends on case quality. One of the reasons for cleaning cases and examining them for signs of head separation, cracks forming in necks and / or body of cases. How long is a piece of string.

It depends on a number of factors, you just can't say how many.

Examine your cases every reload and learn what to look for in the way of signs, then turf those that even hint of showing signs of damage.

[Aster]

How many neck-resizes would you put on a case before replacing it with newer (or once fired) brass?

There isn't a fixed number.

A lot of reloaders do toss they cases after a fixed number of shots and start again. For some it's 10, for others it's whatever decision they have made on the subject.

This is really for peace of mind though, and tossing the brass before it could potentially cause a problem.

If a case is still in good shape there isn't really any reason to replace it, whether that's after 5, 10, 20, or 50 shots. If it's still good it's still good.

On the subject of them deteriorating...

In my experience there is always some sign that a case is on the way out before it goes.

On some their might be some signs of head separation from the case thinning and becoming a lighter colour, and the same for a splitting neck.

If you've missed this earlier you might get a slight crack in the case after firing, nothing that should cause any problems though. Then you would obviously chuck the case.

I've never seen a case go from good to split in a single shot. Not with sensible loads anyway.

[5Tom]

Thanks for the feedback.
I'm thinking of turfing this batch. Sometimes primers are easy to push in, others feel more resistance and I didn't seem to be getting consistent seating depth when seating my pills (+\- .002 of 2.710 coal) even though the die was setup right.

[Apollo]

Depending on your bullet brand it is possible that inconsistant seating depth is inconsistancy in the bullets themselves. Certainly if they are measured from their tip (meplat) to cartridge base. Measuring to the ogive datum point is far more accurate.

If using a hand primer tool the primers require no pressure to seat is a sign of the primer pocket becoming a little large but not really a major issue that will affect accuracy as long as they don't fall out. Quite often I come across one and just put it to one side and keep an eye on those for next time. Depending on the brand of primer you could also swap to a primer that is slightly larger in diameter and regain some pocket tension therefore saving a case rather than tossing it out.

Here's a little info on primers but more so in the list is a few dimensions of different primers and their diameters. If you are already using the largest dimension one's then it's not much help. http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

For my varminting .243W I use Lapua and Winchester Cases, Not sure what the recent Winchester cases are like but I have been using them for many years as they were always in the past good quality.

[Warrigul]

Depending on your bullet brand it is possible that inconsistant seating depth is inconsistancy in the bullets themselves. Certainly if they are measured from their tip (meplat) to cartridge base. Measuring to the ogive datum point is far more accurate.

While it is possibly the projectiles themselves often as the case reload numbers rise it is simply inconsistent neck tension that is the issue with varying seating depths, especially if the primer pockets are getting loose too.

[Chronos]

While it is possibly the projectiles themselves often as the case reload numbers rise it is simply inconsistent neck tension that is the issue with varying seating depths, especially if the primer pockets are getting loose too.

can you explain what you mean by seating depths can vary with neck tension?

i assume if the neck is not gripping at all then the bullet the bullet may slip into the case during handling or transport or be driven into the case on recoil but the actual seating depth during reloading should be consistent if your seating die is contacting the bullet correctly (eg: standard die with VLD bullets may cause bullets to seat shallow with more neck tension)

thanks, not having a go just want to clarify your post

Chronos

[Warrigul]

can you explain what you mean by seating depths can vary with neck tension?

i assume if the neck is not gripping at all then the bullet the bullet may slip into the case during handling or transport or be driven into the case on recoil but the actual seating depth during reloading should be consistent if your seating die is contacting the bullet correctly (eg: standard die with VLD bullets may cause bullets to seat shallow with more neck tension)

thanks, not having a go just want to clarify your post

Chronos

No mechanical part has zero clearance.

With an old case the brass in the neck often displays different properties from case to case(as well as brass thickness- another story again), if using a normal neck or FLS die you can end up with varying tension throughout a batch.

Say you have set the seater to seat to a certain depth and by trial and error(measuring at the Ogive) find you are seating at a depth that gives you a land clearance of .010". Often most leave it at that and just seat an entire batch or 24 etc trusting it will be consistant.

If you go through that batch and check each individual cartridge you can find up to .020" variance when really (in my case) all you want is +/- .002", this is more evident in older cases that haven't been annealed or neck turned (I don't bother turning much as I seat to the lands to get pressure not rely on neck tension). Unless you are using some of the top end presses there is always some slack in any moving part and if there is varied resistance to the projectile being seated from the case you will end up with different depths.

I measure each individual target round nowadays.

Yes there are steps you can take to minimise neck tension variations but these are unlikely to be used by the average loader.

[Chronos]

No mechanical part has zero clearance.

With an old case the brass in the neck often displays different properties from case to case(as well as brass thickness- another story again), if using a normal neck or FLS die you can end up with varying tension throughout a batch.

Say you have set the seater to seat to a certain depth and by trial and error(measuring at the Ogive) find you are seating at a depth that gives you a land clearance of .010". Often most leave it at that and just seat an entire batch or 24 etc trusting it will be consistant.

If you go through that batch and check each individual cartridge you can find up to .020" variance when really (in my case) all you want is +/- .002", this is more evident in older cases that haven't been annealed or neck turned (I don't bother turning much as I seat to the lands to get pressure not rely on neck tension). Unless you are using some of the top end presses there is always some slack in any moving part and if there is varied resistance to the projectile being seated from the case you will end up with different depths.

I measure each individual target round nowadays.

Yes there are steps you can take to minimise neck tension variations but these are unlikely to be used by the average loader.

thanks warrigul,

there are so many variables with seating and even bullet comparators used to measure loaded round lengths can be suspect let alone people measuring loaded rounds to the meplat.

something as simple as proper f/l sizing, trimming and neck turning cases can be a big operation for someone who's new to precision shooting but something that can be beneficial for those looking at improving their handloads.

i'm turning all my cases, some just a skim to uniform neck thickness for normal died and some quite a bit where i'm using wilson straight line dies with bushings so i'm using around .0005"-.001" neck tension and seating with the same straight line seating dies.

Chronos

[5Tom]

Great info there chronos and warrigal. Apollo - I checked that website and using the Winchester LR200 primers, they are the biggest.

I haven't annealed or neck turned at all, only ran the neck sizer. I'll see how I go with the new brass as they are all once fired. I'll run them through the FL die, trim down, debut the flash hole and go from there.

[Chronos]

Great info there chronos and warrigal. Apollo - I checked that website and using the Winchester LR200 primers, they are the biggest.

I haven't annealed or neck turned at all, only ran the neck sizer. I'll see how I go with the new brass as they are all once fired. I'll run them through the FL die, trim down, debut the flash hole and go from there.

Sounds like a plan mate, keep us informed how you go. I'm planning on doing some load testing at some point on my .243 with some newly acquired samples of 65gr Vmax, 75gr Vmax, 85gr Interbond, 87gr SP and 95gr SST bullets

Chronos

[5Tom]

Best grouping I got was .4 inch outside to outside @ 100m with Sierra 70gr Blitzking, 2.710 COAL and 44.5 grains of AR2209.

All of my cases are Remington so they've held up quite well. The 50 odd brass I've been using has at least 8-12 reloads through them, maybe more.

[Ariat]

It's definitely possible to get more.

The most I know of is 54 reload and counting.

That was with annealing and diligent case maintenance, but it shows you how much you can get out of them.

[Apollo]

Apollo - I checked that website and using the Winchester LR200 primers, they are the biggest.

BTW. The Federal 210 are the largest in diameter by an extra 0.0006" over the Winchester LR according to that chart. I don't have any to measure as I only use CCI 200 LR and they measure 0.21110" on average using a Mitutoyo Micrometer. There are other brands around but have not found a comparison chart like that available.

Not that it matters.

Sounds like you have worked a good load up. 0.4" outside is a group size of 0.157" centre, you didn't say how many shots.

[5Tom]

That was 4 shots with one flyer from a cold barrel and first group of the day.

[5Tom]

On 2nd thoughts, I may have miss measured the group, what's the distance between each ring on a 5E 6 pack target? My group (not counting flyer) was within the outer red ring..

[Apollo]

That's a really old target designation. The SSAA 5E Target is now called an S7 but it may depend on the SSAA Branch &/or printer used.

It's the 5 target + 1 Sighter 200 Yard Hunter Class. Your sighter target probably has the rings in the sighter section marked 10, 9 & 8 where as the S7 has 10, 9, 8, 7 & 6 marked. The centre red solid dot is about 0.150" (X Ring) and the real first ring (10 Score) measures 1.000".

They are what I use for Hunter Class Heavy Varmint. Open number of shots at the sighter, one shot at each target for score, best edge. The centre dot is for tie breaking scoring 10 plus X.

One of my fireforming cases targets shot at 175 metres, rough 200 yards setup. But, this is the 100 yard half size 4D target printed on an A4 page.

[Wobble]

That 5th shot along... Perfecto!

[Apollo]

As was the middle bottom target and this is just a test powder weight to blow out new necked up cases fireforming. No load development has happened yet.

[Broom]

Very promising for a first attempt.

Nothing more frustrating than working up a new load and getting nothing but 4" groups on the first day out