Winchester brass

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Winchester brass

Post by Pinkmus » 10 Mar 2021, 7:06 pm

Tried reloading for the first time today - complete newbie.....

Had a lot of issues trying to prime once fired Winchester 308 cases (federal primers). I thought I was doing something wrong but the hand primer worked fine for the adi and Sako once fired brass. Even using the press I just ended up mangling the brass into the shell holders, which in hindsight wasn't the smartest idea.

Has anyone else had similar issues?
Only reason I ask is because I bought a case of this ammo but the priming issue happened with almost every case. I tried to reclean the primer pockets but didn't seem to help. Would appreciate any advice. The brass seems otherwise fine and I thought it might be easier to work with as it seems a bit thinner than the adi and Sako brass.

Appreciate any input.

Thankyou,

Will.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by bladeracer » 10 Mar 2021, 7:54 pm

Federal military chamberings have crimped primers, you need to cut the crimp away. I use a 10mm drill bit.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by on_one_wheel » 10 Mar 2021, 7:57 pm

I've never had an issue with Win brass however many have reported inconsistencies and quality issues with Win brass in the last few years.

A tight primer pocket is probably a good "problem" to have, it's better than finding primers slip in easily which can indicate case head expansion form over pressure or weak brass.

One thing to check for is dirt, grit or carbon in the pockets, it's remotely possible that your pockets need to be cleaned, there's special tools available for that process.
Other options are trying different primers, some brands are softer and easier to seat than others.
If my memory serves me correctly Fed primers are slightly harder than Win primers (someone might be able to correct me here) possibly due to the nickel coating on Fed ?
It's also worth noting that softer primers will show pressure signs more readily than harder ones.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by in2anity » 10 Mar 2021, 8:13 pm

I'm a "salt on pizza" kinda guy...
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Mar 2021, 8:20 pm

Got a decent pic u can up load?
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by No1_49er » 10 Mar 2021, 8:28 pm

OPs original query relates to a problem with Winchester once fired cases.
Why jump in and offer advice that Federal military cases are crimped, and you need to cut away the crimp?
He's also tried re-cleaning the primer sockets i.e. done it a second time, or more. Presumably, if the tool he is using is correct, and it fits into the sockets, the crimp is no longer there?
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Mar 2021, 8:35 pm

No1_49er wrote:OPs original query relates to a problem with Winchester once fired cases.
Why jump in and offer advice that Federal military cases are crimped, and you need to cut away the crimp?
He's also tried re-cleaning the primer sockets i.e. done it a second time, or more. Presumably, if the tool he is using is correct, and it fits into the sockets, the crimp is no longer there?



Spot on
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by boingk » 10 Mar 2021, 8:37 pm

Try chamfering the edge of the pocket with a case mouth tool or similar. Works for me usually.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by on_one_wheel » 10 Mar 2021, 8:44 pm

I think perhaps many of us, myself included, are occasionally guilty of scan reading posts and missing vital information.

I do believe that as old bloke said, its worth posting a picture or two in case there's something to see.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Tiger650 » 10 Mar 2021, 9:59 pm

I have two "hand priming" tools and both are absolute s**t waste of money.
Lee makes an on the press primer tool with both small and large rifle primer cups, 100% reliable and cheap enough to buy two and have one set up for each primer size.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by No1Mk3 » 11 Mar 2021, 2:04 am

I'm with the others, a couple of good pics may help. One thought I had based on your admission of "newness" is what method you used to clean the pockets, a reamer or a pick? Have you double checked they are not Palma (small rifle primer) pockets? Chamfering the pocket may help, but a pocket swaging tool may be your best bet, as for tools, I sometimes use a Lee hand primer on small batch reloading without any problems at all. Cheers.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Mar 2021, 6:27 am

boingk wrote:Try chamfering the edge of the pocket with a case mouth tool or similar. Works for me usually.


Yes, with S&B 223 cases i just used the tip of a sharp knife.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by bladeracer » 11 Mar 2021, 9:12 am

No1_49er wrote:OPs original query relates to a problem with Winchester once fired cases.
Why jump in and offer advice that Federal military cases are crimped, and you need to cut away the crimp?
He's also tried re-cleaning the primer sockets i.e. done it a second time, or more. Presumably, if the tool he is using is correct, and it fits into the sockets, the crimp is no longer there?


Yep, I screwed up, but it still sounds like it's crimped, and being .308 it may be crimped.
I have never bothered cleaning pockets, but I cut them all for consistency during first prep.
If he's only using a cleaning tool rather than a cutter it may not foul on the crimp.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by deye243 » 11 Mar 2021, 3:49 pm

Tiger650 wrote:I have two "hand priming" tools and both are absolute s**t waste of money.
Lee makes an on the press primer tool with both small and large rifle primer cups, 100% reliable and cheap enough to buy two and have one set up for each primer size.


I find this a strange comment as I have 3 hand primers I'm too lazy to keep changing trays and have never had a problem with either one of them and over the years they have loaded over 60000 pistol and up to Magnum rifle cartridges.

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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Mar 2021, 4:03 pm

Tiger650 wrote:I have two "hand priming" tools and both are absolute s**t waste of money.
Lee makes an on the press primer tool with both small and large rifle primer cups, 100% reliable and cheap enough to buy two and have one set up for each primer size.


Yeh, I thought this odd too.

I'll give you $20 if you mail me one. I would like one for the 223
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Bugman » 11 Mar 2021, 4:30 pm

Used to use Winchester brass but spent a bit extra for either Lapua or Norma brass. Never had much of an issue with the Winchester, except for the primer pockets,
nothing to write home about, but the other two brands, have given me no problems, to date.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by JimTom » 11 Mar 2021, 5:53 pm

I’ve never had any issues with my hand primer (Hornady) or Winchester brass for that matter. I’ve never had to uniform or ream the primer cups to get primers to seat easily. Be interested to see what the issue was when it is solved.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Pinkmus » 11 Mar 2021, 7:50 pm

Thanks for the help guys. I only used a cleaning tool initially (that said there is still visible carbon in the pockets) and tried both the hand priming tool and the press mounted priming cups/arms. I used the chamfering tool on the primer pockets and it solved the issue. I might pick up a primer pocket uniformer but the chamfering seemed to work well.

Cheers Will.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by deye243 » 11 Mar 2021, 8:14 pm

Pinkmus wrote:Thanks for the help guys. I only used a cleaning tool initially (that said there is still visible carbon in the pockets) and tried both the hand priming tool and the press mounted priming cups/arms. I used the chamfering tool on the primer pockets and it solved the issue. I might pick up a primer pocket uniformer but the chamfering seemed to work well.

Cheers Will.

That ring around the primer pocket is the crimp just get your deburring tool and make about half turn primers will go in no worries at all
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by bladeracer » 11 Mar 2021, 8:27 pm

Pinkmus wrote:Thanks for the help guys. I only used a cleaning tool initially (that said there is still visible carbon in the pockets) and tried both the hand priming tool and the press mounted priming cups/arms. I used the chamfering tool on the primer pockets and it solved the issue. I might pick up a primer pocket uniformer but the chamfering seemed to work well.

Cheers Will.


Yep, crimped primers. You need to cut it away.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by on_one_wheel » 11 Mar 2021, 10:00 pm

WMA (Winchester Military Ammo)
The cross is a NATO marking
The cartridge was a 7.62, their external dimensions are the same as .308 however the internal dimensions differ, it has much thicker walls giving the cartridge less internal volume, this may cause issues with consistency and possibly even pressure issues when mixed / reloaded with other civilian brass if you don't adjust charges accordingly.
Great solid brass, but personally I wouldn't mess with it unless all my brass was the same to ensure consistency.
As already said its crimped.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by JimTom » 12 Mar 2021, 8:43 am

So it would seem that Bladeracer had the issue solved in the first reply. Nice work mate. :thumbsup:
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by in2anity » 12 Mar 2021, 10:02 am

the reamer takes out the crimp and the uniformer uniforms the depth
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by wanneroo » 12 Mar 2021, 12:44 pm

Yep that looks like the NATO headstamp there.

7.62 NATO brass has about 1.5g less capacity than 308.

Personally in my case for a lot of my 7.62 NATO and 308 brass, I am loading a general target shooting 147g FMJ bullet and I am several grains off max loads and I mix the brass together and load it with no issues and no giant issues with velocity variation or pressure. My advice would be if you are NOT doing something like that then separate out the 7.62 NATO from the 308.

If you want to check case capacity yourself to see the difference, fill a fired case with water and measure it and compare it to other brass.

7.62 NATO brass is almost always 100% going to have crimped primers in the event it's run through a machine gun. You can ream them or swage them, your choice.
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Re: Winchester brass

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Mar 2021, 3:16 pm

Well done Blade. :drinks: :drinks:

But you could have got the brand right.
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