Stabilising Berger VLD 105.

[Moonshine]

Hi Guys,

I stumbled across the site by accident and so far I'm impressed with amount of good and useful information that gets passed around.

Target shooting is something I have just taken up in the last 12 months, and just recently I have started developing loads for my rifle. I have chosen Remington 700 SPS varmint in .243, 9.125 twist 26" barrel for my target rifle and besides that plastic stock I'm impressed.

Doing my research on projectiles, and Berger VLD 105 gr seems to have the best BC out of all 6 mm. Now this is where my problem starts.

I have tried many different things in attempting to stabilise the projectile with no success. From jamming it in by 0.015" and than reducing it by 0.005" at a time still no good. Powder I'm using is AR 2209, and CCI 200 primers. I have also tried different loads in 0.5 gr increments.

If there is anyone out there with the same issue? Anyone with a good recipe for stabilising VLDs?

Thanks in advance...

[Lorgar]

I've only had bad experience with the Berger's unfortunately

I've previously shot them my Ruger .308 with 1:10 twist and a .243 with 1:9 twist.

Wither other loads in all these rifles like using Hornady SST and Nosler BT bullets I was getting .75" groups out of both of them.

(side note: With my new Tikka 7mm-08 I'm getting 0.375" groups with BT hand loads, so all in all I like to think I know what I'm doing as far as reloading/shooting goes)

With the VLD though...

In my .308 I tried 155gr and 185gr VLDs and was getting 2" - 4" groups depending on the load. Couldn't get them any better...

In my .243 I tried the 95gr VLD and had the same result.

Tried 2208 and 2209 in both. Cases were always cleaned and trimmed. Everything that should have been done was with no luck.

There is plenty of good feedback going around, but I could never get them to work for me

[Apollo]

Well, the 105gr Berger 6mm VLD requires a 1:8 Twist or faster so I doubt you will ever get them to stabilise in your slower twist barrel. Even the 95gr may not work either as it states 1:9 twist required but you should always check physically the twist rate of a barrel. If it states 1:9 twist it may not be, it could be faster or slower.

I have used Berger 90gr Match BT Target in my 1:10 twist .243W Tikka T3 which showed great accuracy.

Any Berger VLD I have used I always start load development with the bullet 0.002" off the lands as best I can measure and find the first accuracy node then work from there. In my 6.5x47 Lapua I could not get any better accuracy by varying the seating depth but some others shooting the same have found better accuracy even 0.040" off the lands.

[Chronos]

can you explain what you mean "stabilize"? do you mean you can't fins an accurate load for them or do you mean they are keyholing (going through the target sideways) the 105gr tends to be the bullet of choice for many form of precision so i'd say the problem is on your end. i'm inclined to agree the 1:9.125 twist is almost definitely too slow for the 105 and i'd be looking at a 80-90gr bullet

my 6BR is 1:8 twist and although the BR case is smaller it still drives the 105 at 2700fps and shoots sub 1/2" at 200 yards

take a look here http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php and put your info in. it will give you a stability factor and you can play around with buller weights and work out what should work in your barrel

Chronos

[Granting]

Bad news in this instance I think Moonshine.

According to Berger these bullets need at least 1:8 twist to stabalize.

Follow the links for the bullets on the Berger website here and it lists the twist required for each next to them.

Picking a bullet based on BC fine in theory, but there's no point shooting it if you don't have enough twist to stabalize it.

If you're super keen on the Berger's still I'd take a look at the 87 Grain Match Grade VLD Hunting. 1:10 required only.

[Farmjer]

Best to focus on one thing at a time. If you swapping powders and seating depths and more all over the place I think you're making the process harder for yourself.

You might have done some/most of this but just checking off/asking a few things this would be my advice.

1) Forget seating depth to start with. For your first batch seat them all for max 2.710" COAL and just focus on powder charges.

2) Do you .5gr powder increments from starting to max, shoot them all and see which your best load is. If all of them are rubbish it could just be that they aren't the bullet for your rifle.

3) Assuming a load shoots well (say 40gr shoots best for bullet X for example) repeat the process with batches of 39.8, 39.9, 40.1 and 40.2 powder charges. Shoot em all and see what groups best.

By then if something's going to shoot well for you it should show some obvious promise. Then fine tune the seating depth of the best load.

Too many changes and once and you're just tripping over your own feat.

[Moonshine]

Thanks to everyone who has taken their time to share their knowledge.

I understand that for 105 VLD I need a twist of 8 or faster, and for 95 9 or faster, but I was also informed that due to my barrel length it should work. I have the same issue with all the VLD bullets.

I have managed to develop a load for Hornady 105 A Max which sits around 1 MOA at 200m.

So far the best I have done is with 87 gr Hornady V Max 0.320 at 100.

[Apollo]

Barrel length has nothing to do with it at all really.

Some bullets on the very edge of stability may improve with added velocity..ie drive them faster sometimes helps but going back the other way shorter barrels may have undesirable affects from the loss of velocity.

A lot of this has to do with bullet shape and length so for a given bullet weight not all of the same weight will perform.

As you have found, the 105gr A-Max seems to work but it's a lot different bullet to the 105gr VLD Berger.

Maybe your 700 SPS likes the lighter bullets better in the 80-90gr region.

[Norton]

So far the best I have done is with 87 gr Hornady V Max 0.320 at 100.

Shows that the heaviest bullet isn't necessarily the best.

Don't get caught up on pushing twist rates for the sake of heavy bullets which are likely too long.

Looks like your rifle likes them a little lighter