Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by topcatgc » 21 Apr 2021, 2:38 pm

Hi all,

Brand new to reloading, finding it really hard to find information for reloading using 135GN RN Tigershark projectile, Alliant Green Powder, with Federal 100 primers.

Aiming to get around the 130-132 power factor, for ISPC, using my CZ Shadow 2 (upgrade spring kit from Eemann Tech) 10LB recoil Spring.

Not much data on the 135GN, any help would be much appreciated
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by rc42 » 23 Apr 2021, 2:28 pm

Green dot is a fast powder so be careful with load development as only a little too much will create much greater pressure spikes. Work up loads slowly and always check the primers on fired rounds for signs of over-pressure, you'll need a chronograph if you want to be sure you're meeting power factor too.

If the manufacturer doesn't have load data for what you are trying to do then there's probably a good reason, as there's nothing for Green Dot with 9mm you need to be extra cautious. Web searches will show what others have done with assorted 9mm projectiles so you can extrapolate from that to find a starting load for your 135gn, if you're not sure you could copy what others have used for lighter projectiles and work up but get information from lots of sources and use your own judgment, don't just trust one random post as they could be confused about what they were using.
Primers won't matter, there's not much difference between brands and you'll be working up loads anyway.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by Sarco » 23 Apr 2021, 8:16 pm

ADI indicate that Alliant Green Dot is the equivalent of their APS450/AS50N.
Their reloading data does not indicate any use of these for 9mm / 135gn cast combination.

You may find difficulty getting 130-132 PF with Green Dot. Their Unique would probably be a better option (if you can get it)

Regardless I would endorse what rc42 stated above exercise caution in developing a load and you really do need to chrono the loads as you go.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by topcatgc » 24 Apr 2021, 3:34 pm

Thanks guys
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by rc42 » 24 Apr 2021, 4:12 pm

Just a quick addition regarding projectiles, 135gn is at the heavier end for IPSC use, partly because lighter, faster projectiles travel flatter trajectories but mostly because they require more powder behind them which in turn means more gas coming out of the muzzle which improves the operation of the compensator.

Lighter projectiles are also less sensitive to slight variations in powder charge which makes it easier to fine tune loads and they go super-sonic so are much louder, that seems to be particularly important to some.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by ob1 » 25 Apr 2021, 12:43 am

If you are just starting out you need to do a lot of research before loading any rounds.

A few cautions for a newbie -

You probably will not be able to use Green Dot and 135 gn projectiles to reach IPSC minor power factor without significant risk of exceeding safe chamber pressure. 9mm pistol rounds have a SAAMI recommended maximum pressure of 35,000. Exceeding that pressure by too much can be very dangerous and any Green Dot load with a 135 grain projectile travelling at 930 fps to meet IPSC minor power factor is likely to have a dangerously high chamber pressure and subsequent safety risk.

Green Dot is a powder for shotgun loads and it is too fast for most pistol loads.
Alliant does not recommend it for 9mm. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... powderid=5

Sorry to be negative, but you need to re-think your combination of powder and projectile and opt for a safer alternative.
If it is available, Alliant Unique is equivalent to AP70 and is a favourite of many 9mm shooters. A lighter projectile would also be an option.

Anyway, if you decide to try to work up a load in any powder you should look at the information below before doing any loading.

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/powder-equivalents/

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/pistol/9mm-luger
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by BigB1 » 25 Apr 2021, 9:37 am

ob1 wrote:If you are just starting out you need to do a lot of research before loading any rounds.

A few cautions for a newbie -

You probably will not be able to use Green Dot and 135 gn projectiles to reach IPSC minor power factor without significant risk of exceeding safe chamber pressure. 9mm pistol rounds have a SAAMI recommended maximum pressure of 35,000. Exceeding that pressure by too much can be very dangerous and any Green Dot load with a 135 grain projectile travelling at 930 fps to meet IPSC minor power factor is likely to have a dangerously high chamber pressure and subsequent safety risk.

Green Dot is a powder for shotgun loads and it is too fast for most pistol loads.
Alliant does not recommend it for 9mm. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... powderid=5

Sorry to be negative, but you need to re-think your combination of powder and projectile and opt for a safer alternative.
If it is available, Alliant Unique is equivalent to AP70 and is a favourite of many 9mm shooters. A lighter projectile would also be an option.


This is only true in the recent Alliant load books.

They used to used to provide load data for Green Dot in 9mm. Commercial decisions often mean that they drop data for one powder in favour of another.
I agree that Unique would be a better choice but currently its a case of what you can get and Green Dot will work.
Alliant_GreenDot_9mm.jpg
Taken from the 1996 Alliant reloading book
Alliant_GreenDot_9mm.jpg (204.84 KiB) Viewed 5028 times
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by Macross » 25 Apr 2021, 11:06 am

I see a lot of the 38 Super guys use 135gr projectiles. Its not as common for 9mm loads from my experience. I have one mate that perfers 135s but nearly everyone i know goes either 124gr or 115gr projectiles.
With the powders available currently, its going to be hard to get to power factor with 135's in 9mm i think.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by ob1 » 25 Apr 2021, 11:09 am

Topcatgc -

Spoke to a couple of people today and APS350 is being used by some IPSC shooters to make minor because they cannot get AP50 or AP70. It is a faster powder than Green Dot. They report no issues but they are probably loading at more than SAAMI recommended max pressure. Most are using 125 gn projectiles. Not optimal, but they say it works.

Start low with Green Dot and try lighter projectiles.

(Edited with newer info.)
Last edited by ob1 on 26 Apr 2021, 8:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by rc42 » 25 Apr 2021, 11:35 am

The ADI charts only compare the burn rate to define a powder as 'equivalent', so that people can look at alternatives or primarily work out which ADI powders to buy in place of their existing powders.
They don't suggest that different powders can be directly swapped on a grain for grain basis, each manufacturer's load data would have to be checked although in most cases they will likely be similar.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by ob1 » 01 May 2021, 8:49 pm

I am told that this week in Perth a shooter trying to develop a load for 38 Super major power using a faster powder had their gun blow up.

Apparently firing the gun did not feel anything out of the ordinary and the ejected case looked normal, until the next loaded round of the same type caused the gun to violently disassemble.

There is a reason that manufacturers do not have recommended loads of some powders for every calibre.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by rc42 » 01 May 2021, 9:31 pm

It's 'power factor' that's the gun killer, just about any powder in small quantities can be used to safely make a projectile come out of the barrel and hit a fairly close target but the need for power factor requires chamber pressures to be at the limit every shot and go beyond it very easily.

Loads already at the limit only need a slightly oversize projectile and the same powder load will cause a much bigger pressure spike and it that round also had a fraction of a grain extra powder somebody could lose a finger.
There isn't even a hard limit of safe pressure suddenly switching to dangerous over a few psi, even pressures near the limit will weaken the metal in the gun over time with the gun's self disassembly pressure reducing by a small amount with every shot.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by Macross » 04 May 2021, 9:01 am

ob1 wrote:I am told that this week in Perth a shooter trying to develop a load for 38 Super major power using a faster powder had their gun blow up.

Apparently firing the gun did not feel anything out of the ordinary and the ejected case looked normal, until the next loaded round of the same type caused the gun to violently disassemble.

There is a reason that manufacturers do not have recommended loads of some powders for every calibre.


We may well end up seeing this sort of incident more often as people turn to less than ideal loads. The vacuum of pistol powder is going to push some people to the faster powders and hotter than expected loads.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by the_sovereign_man » 03 Jun 2021, 9:55 am

topcatgc wrote:Hi all,

Brand new to reloading, finding it really hard to find information for reloading using 135GN RN Tigershark projectile, Alliant Green Powder, with Federal 100 primers.

Aiming to get around the 130-132 power factor, for ISPC, using my CZ Shadow 2 (upgrade spring kit from Eemann Tech) 10LB recoil Spring.

Not much data on the 135GN, any help would be much appreciated

Hey mate, can we get an update on your load development here? What was the outcome?
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by gunnnie » 07 Jun 2021, 8:10 pm

Have been running 135gn projos in 9mm for two pistols for the past 2yrs. I run Alliant Red Dot and the same load produces a Power Factor of 128 in one bin and 124 in the other. Neither gun shows any sign of excessive pressure in the fired cases &both guns are very accurate with this load.
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Re: Reloading Noob - 9mm Shadow 2 for IPSC using 135GN

Post by swilso » 14 Aug 2021, 9:30 pm

How’d you go?
I’ve had good success with 124gr RN using Bullseye. Hit 132 power factor at 0.40cc or about ~3.75gr of powder. The 135gr RN I had been trialing shot just as well.
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