Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by rc42 » 24 May 2021, 9:42 am

ZaineB wrote: ... I went to get some powder the other day, they had a shipment of alliant powder, $120 454 grams, told them to shove it up their ass, ...


Which dealer is this? Name and shame them.

There will always be price gouging when supplies are difficult to get hold of, the same happened in the US, although some just call it capitalism and a natural result of supply and demand and it is actually the reason we have monopolies commissions to hold back greed.


The Australian rules that limit transport and storage of propellant powders to small quantities mean that it needs steady demand and has to come from a steady supply, any disruption is going to cause shortages and the price gouging that always seem to follow.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by on_one_wheel » 24 May 2021, 9:55 am

rc42 wrote:Which dealer is this? Name and shame them.


I think you'll find that the forum policy it to not name and shame business publicly.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by rc42 » 24 May 2021, 10:06 am

Understandable I guess.

But a hint about where in Australia this is would be useful
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by bladeracer » 24 May 2021, 12:15 pm

Blr243 wrote:It’s not just pistol powder. It’s many things we used to be able to just buy When required... But now we can’t ...,I have no experience whatsoever with retail or wholesale or supply. Can’t they just jack up the prices of everything and just bloody get it here ? Surely that’s got to be better than us being told OUT OF STOCK all the time .... I’m getting jack of it .. can someone please explain ?


ADI explained in one of their news releases that they considered importing pistol powders to Oz (as they are not producing any for two years), but the cost would be so outrageous nobody would buy it, it would be several times more expensive than buying factory ammo.

Buy supplies regularly, even if you aren't shooting much at the time. Stuff rarely gets cheaper than it is right now, and you will want it at some point in the future. Powders are the most critical as it can't be shipped anywhere, if your dealer doesn't have it then you will have to travel to other dealers, buy it when your dealer has stock. Ammo and primers can be shipped via TNT.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by ZaineB » 24 May 2021, 12:41 pm

rc42 wrote:
ZaineB wrote: ... I went to get some powder the other day, they had a shipment of alliant powder, $120 454 grams, told them to shove it up their ass, ...


Which dealer is this? Name and shame them.

There will always be price gouging when supplies are difficult to get hold of, the same happened in the US, although some just call it capitalism and a natural result of supply and demand and it is actually the reason we have monopolies commissions to hold back greed.


The Australian rules that limit transport and storage of propellant powders to small quantities mean that it needs steady demand and has to come from a steady supply, any disruption is going to cause shortages and the price gouging that always seem to follow.



not in qld, cheers.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by on_one_wheel » 24 May 2021, 8:23 pm

I'm not surprised shops are taking advantage of the supply/demand ratio, its pretty common. Were left in a "take it or leave it" situation.
Fortunately I plan for these scenarios by keeping plenty of stock. I do it with almost all my consumables, household and hobby, I shop when I see a good deal and what I can't keep a lifetimes supply of, I'll keep a year or two worth. Its worked well for me.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by gunnnie » 07 Jun 2021, 8:30 pm

I've made sure that I can keep both my wife & I shooting twice a week for at least the next 12mths. When I see powder, primers, brass available for what I have, I buy what I can.
Some shooters at the club told me I was being a panic merchant when we spoke about this early last year. Guess who is now stressing about if they can continue to practice & attend monthly comps? I'll give you a hint, not me!
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by jpsauer88 » 13 Aug 2022, 1:14 pm

Rc25 did you end up trying the 2205 in 9mm?
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by Blr243 » 13 Aug 2022, 7:29 pm

Hav most pistol shooters cottoned on to the fact that they can sometimes substitute SR instead of the small pis primers they normally seek ? It seems allprimers are hard to get excerpt large rifle Thank god they are available. I wold b stuffed otherwise
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 17 Aug 2022, 4:40 am

bladeracer wrote:
ADI explained in one of their news releases that they considered importing pistol powders to Oz (as they are not producing any for two years), but the cost would be so outrageous nobody would buy it, it would be several times more expensive than buying factory ammo.

.


Blade, made sense a few months back but Ive wondered about this since. Now it seems pretty much proven people will pay a lot for powders. $1200 for 2kg still akes a while to sell, but half that cost and it goes in hours....

Also trying to see where import costs would be unmanageable. That small cast bullet business attempting to bring in their first Euro shipment. While expensive its not unmanageably so, and they and the shipment are small fry, no bulk discounts....

I reckon ADI is serving Aussies up a steaming pile of crap. Not worth importing powders, not worth producing ar2205...

When ever was 2205 a big seller? They have been selling it to customers for decades at whatever minor margin it was no probs, now they decide in light of Zero other options for their customers, it wont sell like hotcakes?

They could fix this in a minute and still make a profit.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by bladeracer » 17 Aug 2022, 6:58 am

The place in Brisbane that is trying to import that shipment of pistol powders posted last week that it is still sitting in a warehouse in Hamburg, it may never get here. AR2205 should be still produced, just in very limited runs, according to ADI.

mickb wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
ADI explained in one of their news releases that they considered importing pistol powders to Oz (as they are not producing any for two years), but the cost would be so outrageous nobody would buy it, it would be several times more expensive than buying factory ammo.

.


Blade, made sense a few months back but Ive wondered about this since. Now it seems pretty much proven people will pay a lot for powders. $1200 for 2kg still akes a while to sell, but half that cost and it goes in hours....

Also trying to see where import costs would be unmanageable. That small cast bullet business attempting to bring in their first Euro shipment. While expensive its not unmanageably so, and they and the shipment are small fry, no bulk discounts....

I reckon ADI is serving Aussies up a steaming pile of crap. Not worth importing powders, not worth producing ar2205...

When ever was 2205 a big seller? They have been selling it to customers for decades at whatever minor margin it was no probs, now they decide in light of Zero other options for their customers, it wont sell like hotcakes?

They could fix this in a minute and still make a profit.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by JimTom » 17 Aug 2022, 7:09 am

I don’t understand why ADI won’t up the production of 2205. Yes in the past it has been one of the smallest sellers, perhaps because you only need a teaspoon of it in the cartridges you load with it, however in light of recent events I bet it becomes one of their big sellers if they produce some now.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by lcpltac » 17 Aug 2022, 1:55 pm

I’ve been using the “50/50” pistol powder Barry&Son have for the 9mm, keeping the AP100 for the .38 Super. Seems to be working well but at 7.1gns it’s not gunna last long!!
I should get about 3000 rounds per 1.5kg tub, hopefully that’ll last till something else comes along. Primers are another thing tho, using Small Rifle with the 50/50, no issues so far.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 17 Aug 2022, 2:54 pm

bladeracer wrote:The place in Brisbane that is trying to import that shipment of pistol powders posted last week that it is still sitting in a warehouse in Hamburg, it may never get here. AR2205 should be still produced, just in very limited runs, according to ADI.



Their statement of very limited runs is what I am worried about. Decades of providing this powder, then they suspend it the same time as they wipe other pistol powders totally... :problem:

And now that pistol powders are selling at 500% normal price, they consider its still not worth turning the machines on?
Last edited by mickb on 17 Aug 2022, 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by rc42 » 17 Aug 2022, 9:17 pm

I've heard form a fellow shooter in a related business that Tigershark have close to no chance of actually importing propellant powders, at best they have Mount Everest size hurdles in their path. I hope it works out though, I bought some sample packs of their projectiles recently, they look well made so I'd get more to have some extra powder too.

ADI's AR2205 is just usable in 9mm with a heavy 147gn projectile, 8.6 gn is the most I've managed to compress in and it cycles a semi-auto nicely, velocity is a little on the low side so not really usable past 50m but still a viable option for most shoots. The next fastest ADI powder, AR2207 isn't usable in 9mm.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 17 Aug 2022, 10:07 pm

rc42 wrote:I've heard form a fellow shooter in a related business that Tigershark have close to no chance of actually importing propellant powders, at best they have Mount Everest size hurdles in their path.


As blade racer said then. What a pity.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Aug 2022, 11:02 pm

mickb wrote:
rc42 wrote:I've heard form a fellow shooter in a related business that Tigershark have close to no chance of actually importing propellant powders, at best they have Mount Everest size hurdles in their path.


As blade racer said then. What a pity.


Probably because:

The European Road Transport requirements will need to be met. And perhaps Rail.

Then International Shipping Transport requirements, and I believe they are very strict.

Then our AU Dangerous Goods Road Transport code requirements.

No, it would be tricky alright.

And if it's a small quantity it get very expensive.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 18 Aug 2022, 1:08 am

Oldbloke wrote:
mickb wrote:
rc42 wrote:I've heard form a fellow shooter in a related business that Tigershark have close to no chance of actually importing propellant powders, at best they have Mount Everest size hurdles in their path.


As blade racer said then. What a pity.


Probably because:

The European Road Transport requirements will need to be met. And perhaps Rail.

Then International Shipping Transport requirements, and I believe they are very strict.

Then our AU Dangerous Goods Road Transport code requirements.

No, it would be tricky alright.

And if it's a small quantity it get very expensive.


Old bloke Id say the holdups will be export/import approval related, not transportation. Or maybe exacerbated by the general shipping mess occurring everywhere. Smokeless powder is not that hard to move, class 1.4, or sometimes 4.1 , as long as carriers and customs depts arent being d**kheads or playing politics, its pretty routine. there are much harder DG's to move like 1.1 TNT or temperature critical like 5.1, 20 tons of super-oxidizer in a thermotank( fun stuff that makes fires you cant put out). These are moved every day all around the world and cities no fuss, no hold-ups. The difference being they arent 'evil gunowner stuff' ....
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Aug 2022, 8:40 am

mickb wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
mickb wrote:
rc42 wrote:I've heard form a fellow shooter in a related business that Tigershark have close to no chance of actually importing propellant powders, at best they have Mount Everest size hurdles in their path.


As blade racer said then. What a pity.


Probably because:

The European Road Transport requirements will need to be met. And perhaps Rail.

Then International Shipping Transport requirements, and I believe they are very strict.

Then our AU Dangerous Goods Road Transport code requirements.

No, it would be tricky alright.

And if it's a small quantity it get very expensive.


Old bloke Id say the holdups will be export/import approval related, not transportation. Or maybe exacerbated by the general shipping mess occurring everywhere. Smokeless powder is not that hard to move, class 1.4, or sometimes 4.1 , as long as carriers and customs depts arent being d**kheads or playing politics, its pretty routine. there are much harder DG's to move like 1.1 TNT or temperature critical like 5.1, 20 tons of super-oxidizer in a thermotank( fun stuff that makes fires you cant put out). These are moved every day all around the world and cities no fuss, no hold-ups. The difference being they arent 'evil gunowner stuff' ....


Yes, your right. Its actually, physically not very hard. But DG legislation can make it tricky and most companies just find it too complicated.
But it isn't like shipping timber either.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 18 Aug 2022, 8:02 pm

DG carriers are setup to move hazmat in their sleep. 9 classes and some a lot tricker as I say than 1.4 for smokeless powders, its not even explosive.

There are types of DG being moved every day that would make your eyes boggle, way bigger deal than a truck of pistol powder.

The same companies saying they wont move smokeless powders all happily line up to move the other stuff. :roll:
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Aug 2022, 9:40 pm

mickb wrote:DG carriers are setup to move hazmat in their sleep. 9 classes and some a lot tricker as I say than 1.4 for smokeless powders, its not even explosive.

There are types of DG being moved every day that would make your eyes boggle, way bigger deal than a truck of pistol powder.

The same companies saying they wont move smokeless powders all happily line up to move the other stuff. :roll:


Perhaps your right. From memory Cl 1.4 are lower risk. Certainly ammo is very safe.

Are you saying:

The code sets too high a standard?
Or
Companies for ideological reasons choose to not transport powder, ammo etc?.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by deye243 » 19 Aug 2022, 3:01 am

mickb wrote:DG carriers are setup to move hazmat in their sleep. 9 classes and some a lot tricker as I say than 1.4 for smokeless powders, its not even explosive.

There are types of DG being moved every day that would make your eyes boggle, way bigger deal than a truck of pistol powder.

The same companies saying they wont move smokeless powders all happily line up to move the other stuff. :roll:

They transfer s**t like on this website everyday in this country it's all a load ****** bulshit .
https://www.dynonobel.com/resource-hub/products/coal

Gee how many mine's are in this country especially Western Australia with the most restrictive crap.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by bigpete » 19 Aug 2022, 7:41 am

I'm hoarding it,thats what I'm doing lol
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by dnedative » 19 Aug 2022, 5:50 pm

Passed a Toll truck with a funny looking container thing on a trailer, 1.1 explosives sign. Probably full of blasting caps, tovex sausages and detcord heading to one of the thousand mines that exist. The freight issue is probably carriers not wanting to do the small side of the business stuff, couple hundred kilos here and there is easier to just knock it back - if your South32 looking to shift 250,000t of the s**t you they aint going to say no.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Aug 2022, 6:02 pm

dnedative wrote:Passed a Toll truck with a funny looking container thing on a trailer, 1.1 explosives sign. Probably full of blasting caps, tovex sausages and detcord heading to one of the thousand mines that exist. The freight issue is probably carriers not wanting to do the small side of the business stuff, couple hundred kilos here and there is easier to just knock it back - if your South32 looking to shift 250,000t of the s**t you they aint going to say no.


Higher risk stuff.

https://aidgc.org.au/what-are-dangerous ... xplosives/
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm

dnedative wrote:Passed a Toll truck with a funny looking container thing on a trailer, 1.1 explosives sign. Probably full of blasting caps, tovex sausages and detcord heading to one of the thousand mines that exist. The freight issue is probably carriers not wanting to do the small side of the business stuff, couple hundred kilos here and there is easier to just knock it back - if your South32 looking to shift 250,000t of the s**t you they aint going to say no.


I would guess there are costs involved in carrying the licences and insurances required to transport ammunition, if the market isn't big enough to absorb those costs then it becomes a burden rather than an advantage to the business. The ideal would be a transport company centred around the firearm industry, but I can't see it being a viable business.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by dnedative » 19 Aug 2022, 7:12 pm

bladeracer wrote:
dnedative wrote:The ideal would be a transport company centred around the firearm industry, but I can't see it being a viable business.


Australian east cost is a pretty good run to have so I wouldnt rule it out.
I have no idea how combat simulation systems ship Wano BP, I'll have to ask more questions next time I get a bottle - Last time there were kinda salty they lost access to some chartered ADI/Thales ship that leaves Europe that they could buy some space on. Had to go another route, prices went up lol

Those guys should jump on the pistol powder wagon, if they can import tons of black powder and already have access to magazines for storage along with transport connections they are 3/4 the way there.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 20 Aug 2022, 9:54 am

dnedative wrote:Passed a Toll truck with a funny looking container thing on a trailer, 1.1 explosives sign. Probably full of blasting caps, tovex sausages and detcord heading to one of the thousand mines that exist. The freight issue is probably carriers not wanting to do the small side of the business stuff, couple hundred kilos here and there is easier to just knock it back - if your South32 looking to shift 250,000t of the s**t you they aint going to say no.



Fellas, small and one off orders are done all the time at reasonable costs. I've moved one off R&D chemicals which are even sub class 1( the highest risk classification of their type, eg 5.1, 6.1 etc) no problem and competing quotes from 4 or 5 of the big guys. Also all of the weird chem, composites, corrosives and oxidizers all higher on the charts than ammo are moved for smaller factories, quarries, business start-ups etc all day every day from single drum, to single pallet to B-double or isotank level. A lot of the harder chems and reactants are not available to the public at all, the permissions and licencing exceed small arms consumables requirements.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by jovialjosie2002 » 24 Aug 2022, 6:52 pm

mickb wrote:DG carriers are setup to move hazmat in their sleep. 9 classes and some a lot tricker as I say than 1.4 for smokeless powders, its not even explosive.

There are types of DG being moved every day that would make your eyes boggle, way bigger deal than a truck of pistol powder.

The same companies saying they wont move smokeless powders all happily line up to move the other stuff. :roll:


I totally agree, I was a DG driver for a few years....50kg of Sodium Cyanide will kill 2 million people (potentially)....I had 1200 kg on the back of my ute once. People don't blink an eyelid when they see an LPG tanker drive past....and those things ARE bombs.
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Re: Whats everyone doing about pistol powder?

Post by mickb » 25 Aug 2022, 3:32 am

Exactly mate. You can see the level of stigma against recreational small arms supplies, even gunowners have been convinced they are some sort of special cost/hazmat category just under nuclear missiles.
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