Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

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Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by Tubs » 22 May 2021, 8:06 pm

Hey All,

Was on the phone on Friday trying to tee up some projectiles with Winchester and a few retailers, that is grounds for another story.

Anyway, two separate sources confirmed that supply of small pistol primers is about to dry up - as the army has secured the total primer supply from one or more of the major importer/manufacturers... Probably hasnt hit retail just yet but is about to. Not sure if this is conjecture/rumour or not.

Just another nail in the coffin for pistol reloaders (powder first, now primers!).

Anyone else heard same?
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by rc42 » 22 May 2021, 9:13 pm

Yep, stores in QLD with online inventory have been showing ever decreasing stocks of all primer types, just as they did with pistol powders.

Youtube channel Shooting Stuff Australia have also warned several times (between barely coherent rants about how the sky is falling down) that advice from suppliers is that they are now gone from the supply chain and will be for 2-5 years (estimates vary), some dealers still have some so the advice is to get enough for the next year or more. Expensive things to stock up at $100 per brick of 1,000 and pistol comps and practice can certainly get through them.

However, there are signs that the US ammo shortage is nearly over with sizable stocks hitting retail shelves now so primers will likely return to supply there later this year and new imports here maybe by the end of the year.
On the other hand, we could be here in a couple of years time telling stories about how our air pistols handled at the range that day and reminiscing about the days of powder pistols and how much fun they were.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by wanneroo » 23 May 2021, 10:22 am

A friend of mine is a big gun shop owner in another state, spoke to him last week and he is getting in small quantities of small pistol primers but not enough to meet demand of course.

Prices are falling fast on ammo here in the USA and apparently more is getting to shelves, but keep in mind May-June is the slowest month(s) in the gun store business, summer is arriving and people are out doing outdoor stuff and summer stuff, vacations, Memorial Day weekend, etc.

All indicators point towards it being a year or more where normal supplies and prices are seen, probably two, some say worse.

But there are small pistol primers being released into the supply chain in the USA.

I think the big hope would be a big import of primers from Sellier and Bellot in Czech, Igman in Bosnia, Fiocchi in Italy or Wolf in Russia.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by ZaineB » 23 May 2021, 9:29 pm

wanneroo wrote:A friend of mine is a big gun shop owner in another state, spoke to him last week and he is getting in small quantities of small pistol primers but not enough to meet demand of course.

Prices are falling fast on ammo here in the USA and apparently more is getting to shelves, but keep in mind May-June is the slowest month(s) in the gun store business, summer is arriving and people are out doing outdoor stuff and summer stuff, vacations, Memorial Day weekend, etc.

All indicators point towards it being a year or more where normal supplies and prices are seen, probably two, some say worse.

But there are small pistol primers being released into the supply chain in the USA.

I think the big hope would be a big import of primers from Sellier and Bellot in Czech, Igman in Bosnia, Fiocchi in Italy or Wolf in Russia.



I find it impossible to believe that manufacturers of these components wouldnt simply double production if there is such a hotbed of profits to be made, heck if someone wanted what I was selling at three times the demand as normal I would be definitely busting my arse and making hay while the sun shines.

I on the other hand have had no issues buying a lot of these components.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by rc42 » 24 May 2021, 10:04 am

Manufacturers got stung a few years ago during a previous shortage, they invested big in new machines and facilities and then the shortage ended and left the machines idle.
Assuming the raw materials are available the machines to make primers by the millions per week are crazy expensive with probably a year lead time to get them ordered, made and installed, assuming they even have the factory floor space.

They would likely be looking as a 1-2 year project to expand manufacturing capacity with no assurance that the demand would still be there so all they are doing is extending the working hours of what they have and enjoying the increased profits while they last.

The US shortage seems to be slowing just as ours is starting so it most likely won't be as long or as bad here, there are also far fewer reloaders in Australia so it wouldn't take many large import shipments to get primers back on the shelves everywhere.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by bladeracer » 24 May 2021, 12:21 pm

ZaineB wrote:I find it impossible to believe that manufacturers of these components wouldnt simply double production if there is such a hotbed of profits to be made, heck if someone wanted what I was selling at three times the demand as normal I would be definitely busting my arse and making hay while the sun shines.

I on the other hand have had no issues buying a lot of these components.


I think manufacturers are already running at maximum production, they can't double that without building new facilities. Yes, even the huge demand doesn't make that viable, by the time the facilities came online the famine will have calmed down. Remington is now producing ammo again in the US, and CCI is now listing limited rimfire ammo available most days.

I don't know how many small pistol primers you think are sold in Oz every year, but I doubt it'd even fill a ten-foot container. A concerted petition might get somebody to bring in a load from somewhere obscure, but they'd want payment up front so people can't balk at the landed price when they show up.

It's worth trying some of the softer small rifle primers to see if your handgun has enough hit to fire them.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by wanneroo » 24 May 2021, 12:43 pm

There was a dude that was running a reloading company making custom ammo for folks when they send him their brass. He tested out small rifle primers in some pressure testing and the results were about the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVRGsoOr6k

Remington I hear is back making primers again, so that's good.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by bladeracer » 24 May 2021, 1:13 pm

wanneroo wrote:There was a dude that was running a reloading company making custom ammo for folks when they send him their brass. He tested out small rifle primers in some pressure testing and the results were about the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVRGsoOr6k

Remington I hear is back making primers again, so that's good.


Yep, the only real difference is that the rifle cups might be too hard for some handguns to dent consistently, particularly striker-fired.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by Oldbloke » 24 May 2021, 4:44 pm

Some priming compounds are natoriously dangerous to make. So, gearing up production may not be as simple as ABC.

P.s. Frankly I think there is more to this than what meets the eye. ADF is spending big time on equipment. My guess, ammo too.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by Diesel » 24 May 2021, 7:55 pm

Pretty much no pistol primers in Tasmania and everyone with gear that will set off small rifle primers using those. Predict that will be the next big run and shortage. Seem to be plenty of large rifle primers about. Who knows? Limited pistol powder about so that is a crimp as well.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by Macross » 28 May 2021, 11:55 am

bladeracer wrote:
ZaineB wrote:I don't know how many small pistol primers you think are sold in Oz every year, but I doubt it'd even fill a ten-foot container.


I dont know about that. Noia apparently had 1 million Federal small pistol primers in stock before the shortages. A case of 5000 is 450mm x 200mm by 100mm. (I have one in my stash and just measured it). Im sure there is a way to work out how much space 1,000,000 would work out to but when i tried my brain started hurting.

So yeah, im sure there are more small pistol primers consumed in australia than you think. Most guys who shoot IPSC chew through 200 plus per week which adds up quick.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by BadShot » 28 May 2021, 12:56 pm

1 Million Primers

450mm x 200mm x 100mm = 9,000,000mm3 x 200 for 1Million = 1,800,000,000mm3
Cube root of that is 1216mm

A Pallet 1.2M x 1.2M x 1.2M (roughly)
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by Macross » 28 May 2021, 1:37 pm

I got to a pallet 2m x 4.5m by 1m and got confused :P But yeah, thats 1 suppliers order of 1 brand of primers.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by bladeracer » 28 May 2021, 2:58 pm

Macross wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
ZaineB wrote:I don't know how many small pistol primers you think are sold in Oz every year, but I doubt it'd even fill a ten-foot container.


I dont know about that. Noia apparently had 1 million Federal small pistol primers in stock before the shortages. A case of 5000 is 450mm x 200mm by 100mm. (I have one in my stash and just measured it). Im sure there is a way to work out how much space 1,000,000 would work out to but when i tried my brain started hurting.

So yeah, im sure there are more small pistol primers consumed in australia than you think. Most guys who shoot IPSC chew through 200 plus per week which adds up quick.


How many IPSC shooters do we have in all of Australia?
How many of them are handloading rather than using bulk factory ammo?
What percentage of those are shooting every week?
The few (that are not sponsored with factory ammo) who are shooting 200rds per week, every week of the year, are using 200x52=10400, or two cases a year. A hundred such dedicated shooters are getting through 1,040,000 primers per year.
Retail value of around 10 cents apiece, or 8.5c buying by the case, around $90,000, so import value probably around $30K, plus Dangerous Goods import costs. By the time the importer has the container at the warehouse maybe it's worth $40K.

A 10ft container has a capacity of 16m3, so you could probably get 10,000,000 primers, or 12 cubic-meters in there. A quick Google found some oldish figures of about A$4000 to bring a 20ft container from the US to Sydney. No idea of the export/import or DG fees, but the export fee from South Africa for two rifles in 2018 was US$800. Regardless, the landed cost of ten-million primers is probably not too outrageous, maybe A$500K, that can be retailed for about $900K. The importer stands to make perhaps $100K to $150K for the effort.

So how does that stack up against an enterprising individual deciding to fill a niche by starting up a primer manufacturing business here...particularly when primers are beginning to show up on shelves in the US already.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by ZaineB » 28 May 2021, 5:34 pm

thats one doctored quote, when did I say that?
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by rc42 » 28 May 2021, 5:43 pm

Maybe it's the protracted process, seemingly endless hurdles and never ending attacks by mainstream media that discourage people from pistol shooting here in Australia, personally I'm amazed that so few people take part in the most amazing hobby I've ever tried.

At my club, most shooters are just there for some occasional enjoyment and are happy with factory ammo for that, only a minority actually reload (although a significant minority) as you need to be putting a lot of rounds downrange for the economics and time taken to make sense. Good news for me as I get to pick up 9mm cases by the hundreds on some visits.

Reloading is more common for those more serious about getting really good at shooting or making power factor, especially if using 38 Super (I've never met a 38 Super user that doesn't reload), and when load tuning for accuracy is required such as pistol metallic silhouette, everyone there reloads too.

I've been watching the online inventories of dealers that had and still have primers here in SE QLD and they are going down very slowly, I checked one store a few days ago (Shooters Delight) and they still have over 100,000 small pistol primers in assorted brands, most dealers have them but are only selling them by the 100 packs now. The shortage certainly hasn't hit hard in Brisbane yet.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by bladeracer » 28 May 2021, 7:00 pm

ZaineB wrote:thats one doctored quote, when did I say that?


You didn't, I did.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by the_sovereign_man » 02 Jun 2021, 9:34 am

rc42 wrote:At my club, most shooters are just there for some occasional enjoyment and are happy with factory ammo for that, only a minority actually reload (although a significant minority) as you need to be putting a lot of rounds downrange for the economics and time taken to make sense.

Interesting. I feel it's the opposite at my club. I rarely see (hear? factory ammo is loud AF) people shoot factory ammo unless they're brand new to the sport.
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Re: Small pistol primer shortage -sheeat

Post by bladeracer » 02 Jun 2021, 5:17 pm

the_sovereign_man wrote:
rc42 wrote:At my club, most shooters are just there for some occasional enjoyment and are happy with factory ammo for that, only a minority actually reload (although a significant minority) as you need to be putting a lot of rounds downrange for the economics and time taken to make sense.

Interesting. I feel it's the opposite at my club. I rarely see (hear? factory ammo is loud AF) people shoot factory ammo unless they're brand new to the sport.


When I was shooting IPSC virtually everybody used handloads, although occasionally some of the sponsored shooters would rock up with a pile of factory ammo to burn. The military/Police used our range every Wednesday and went through tons of factory ammo.

I suspect now that factory ammo is much more common on the range though, at least in IPSC where you go through a lot of ammo in a day.
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