Pistol loads for maximum fireball

[rc42]

Perhaps not the usual goal for working up loads but I want to maxmise the 'fireball' effect for pistol night shoots.

The caliber would be 38 Special but possibly 9mm too (no magnum loads allowed), so does anyone have any thoughts or experience with the choice of powder burn rate and projectile weight that creates the best light show?

[Macross]

I have found that Alliant Unique seems to make a nice orange fireball. Regular loads, no need for super silly amounts of powder.

[bladeracer]

Perhaps not the usual goal for working up loads but I want to maxmise the 'fireball' effect for pistol night shoots.

The caliber would be 38 Special but possibly 9mm too (no magnum loads allowed), so does anyone have any thoughts or experience with the choice of powder burn rate and projectile weight that creates the best light show?

4F perhaps?

[rc42]

4F perhaps?

I was looking for fireball rather than smoke haze followed by everybody coughing.

I have some Unique, I'm guessing that a light projectile with lots of powder is going to be the way to go.

[No1Mk3]

If you haven't shot BP at night you don't know what "fireball" is, smoke is good, BP smoke is healthy (sulpher rich, why people pay money to go to sulpher spring baths),

[Tiger650]

If rifle [carbine] load data is available maybe try those loads ?
I have AR2205 .357" / 158gn loads for my Rossi carbine that strobe quiet impressively out of a 6" bbl revolver.

[Tiger650]

If rifle [carbine] load data is available maybe try those loads ?
I have AR2205 .357" / 158gn loads for my Rossi carbine that strobe quiet impressively out of a 6" bbl revolver.

[rc42]

If you haven't shot BP at night you don't know what "fireball" is

I have to send apologies to bladeracer, I thought the 4F comment was more of a joke but following other comments and some investigation it seems to be a really good idea.
So good in fact that I've just been out and got a small tub of FFFFg and will load up some 38 Specials during the imminent lockdown.
Just double checking load data but it seems that it's OK to fill the case and slightly compress the powder with a projectile around the usual 158gr mark.

I'm looking forward to trying this out.

[bladeracer]

If you haven't shot BP at night you don't know what "fireball" is

I have to send apologies to bladeracer, I thought the 4F comment was more of a joke but following other comments and some investigation it seems to be a really good idea.
So good in fact that I've just been out and got a small tub of FFFFg and will load up some 38 Specials during the imminent lockdown.
Just double checking load data but it seems that it's OK to fill the case and slightly compress the powder with a projectile around the usual 158gr mark.

I'm looking forward to trying this out.

No worries
I would use FFFg myself, but FFFFg means you can get significantly more in the case, thus more fire
A good crimp should help get most of it burning before it gets spat out the muzzle.
In a revolver, if you want to use a lighter charge, you can seat the bullet deeper, otherwise put some wads or cards under the bullet.
You don't want any air gap, so you just have to fill the case up with something else if you want to use less powder.

If you use a tumbler for cleaning you might want to deprime and give them a rinse in water before you tumble them.

[rc42]

Thanks, first batch loaded up and ready to test.

About 22gn of 4F which was about 4mm below the top of the 38 Special case, I used CCI 550 magnum primers and seated 147gn Hawkesbury River LRN projectiles to the depth where I could feel when them touch the powder and just started to compress it, finally, a good roll crimp from a dedicated crimp die and they're ready to go.

They will be fired from a S&W 686 .357 revolver so I have no concerns about pressure.


My brass cleaning is already multi-stage, they all get some spray lube and de-prime followed by about 20 minutes in the ultra sonic bath then a few hours in a dry tumbler which includes some wax polish, they come out like new and don't start to tarnish for months. I understand that gun cleaning is going to be a challenge after shooting BP though.

[LawrenceA]

With Black you can basically shoot as much as you can stuff in.
With a revolver you will get all sorts of flame and smoke emitting from every orifice!

If possible throw your cases straight into a container of water with a little detergent and make sure you lube correctly otherwise it will be a bugger to clean.
I would suggest maybe try a slower powder as well as the flame may erupt further.
I can tell you a rifle will spit a good 5 foot minimum and a revolver maybe 3 foot minimum.
Just google blackpowder at night images.

Duplex loads will reduce fouling but not sure about fireball effect.

[yoshie]

I used AR2205 rifle loads in my 44 magnum pistol chasing a few extra FPS but all it did was shoot flames out the barrel.

[LawrenceA]

I used AR2205 rifle loads in my 44 magnum pistol chasing a few extra FPS but all it did was shoot flames out the barrel.

Yeah I would have thought a slower powder would be more likely to burn outside the barrel.
But within reason otherwise you just get a bunch of unburnt powder.

[rc42]

Well, that was fun, just got back from the range after testing these BP loads.
There's certainly no shortage of fireball, even in daylight and the wind was toward us so I certainly got the expected coughing and choking noises from behind me.

Accuracy was hard to judge, there was so much smoke it was difficult to see where they were going but that was never the point.

Loads were a little on the hot side, probably because it was 4F instead of 3F, recoil is different compared to smokeless but it felt like it was getting into 357 Magnum territory and there was some flattening visible on the primers. I think I'll reduce the powder load slightly and seat the projectile deeper, I'll also drop the weight down and see how that goes, in theory it should reduce the pressure and get the projectile out of the barrel faster to help with fireball.

It's amazing how fast the gun gets hot with BP and the cleaning afterwards....yuk