.222Rem loading down to .22mag

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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Aug 2021, 8:41 am

Reviews on line suggest ok at Hornet velocities.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010937447/
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by deye243 » 12 Aug 2021, 4:06 pm

If you are looking at bullet performance at these velocities you better try and find some Magnum projectiles that we used to use years ago if you only want to push a bullet at 2000 feet per second there's not much out there this going to work even the hornet ones will run out of terminal performance 50 to 60 yards
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2021, 4:30 pm

MtnMan wrote:Ok...holding center as it is now sighted in at 50mm high with my 50gr bullet load the 15.8gr charge with the 40gr bullet shoots about 50mm low at 50m and 100mm low at 100m.

cheers!


I'm still getting around 1600fps muzzle velocity from this drop data.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2021, 4:44 pm

deye243 wrote:If you are looking at bullet performance at these velocities you better try and find some Magnum projectiles that we used to use years ago if you only want to push a bullet at 2000 feet per second there's not much out there this going to work even the hornet ones will run out of terminal performance 50 to 60 yards


Yep, these short bullets have poor BC and dump velocity very quickly.
I haven't found any source for the old 40gn semi-JHP WMR bullets, they were a good but very cheap bullet 35 years ago.

The 40gn VMax at 2000fps would still be holding 1600fps at 100m, which is its minimum design velocity, so it should still function reliably.
Just slightly hotter than a true 40gn WMR load. About 40-cents apiece. Possibly the highest BC 40gn .224" bullet though, so it'll hold onto velocity much better than anything else.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bigpete » 12 Aug 2021, 7:20 pm

Speer 45gn flat points.
Telling ya,they're the bomb lol
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by deye243 » 12 Aug 2021, 7:50 pm

I bought 10000 of the WMR pills back in 1995 from O'Reilly's spewing I did not stock up when I ran out and the early 2000s
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by wildcard6 » 13 Aug 2021, 10:36 am

Without reading three pages of replies, I hope I'm not duplicating another reply here, but I used 8 grains of Trail Boss in a .223 using 50-grain Nosler SHOTS bullets at one time. They chronographed at 1850 fps, so were pretty well spot-on duplicating .22WMR performance, but with a heavier bullet. In a .222R you'd get less powder in the case - try 7 grains. Two points to ponder though. This was a very accurate load in my Tikka T3, which had a 1:8 twist barrel, but not very accurate in my Sako [1:12 twist rate]. I gave some to a friend of mine with a small property on which he has some feral sheep that he kills from time to time for meat. One night he went out to kill one and accidentally killed two because the bullet went straight through the first sheep's head and hit one standing just behind it in the neck! SO, obviously lack of bullet velocity was a factor in that it did not expand as you would expect it would at 3200+ fps.
Bottom line - if your barrel twist is fast enough for the bullet and you can actually GET Trail Boss [difficult now], this combination will give you WMR performance at a fraction of the price of WMR ammo - and much better accuracy than most rifles in that caliber.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 13 Aug 2021, 3:27 pm

wildcard6 wrote:Without reading three pages of replies, I hope I'm not duplicating another reply here, but I used 8 grains of Trail Boss in a .223 using 50-grain Nosler SHOTS bullets at one time. They chronographed at 1850 fps, so were pretty well spot-on duplicating .22WMR performance, but with a heavier bullet. In a .222R you'd get less powder in the case - try 7 grains. Two points to ponder though. This was a very accurate load in my Tikka T3, which had a 1:8 twist barrel, but not very accurate in my Sako [1:12 twist rate]. I gave some to a friend of mine with a small property on which he has some feral sheep that he kills from time to time for meat. One night he went out to kill one and accidentally killed two because the bullet went straight through the first sheep's head and hit one standing just behind it in the neck! SO, obviously lack of bullet velocity was a factor in that it did not expand as you would expect it would at 3200+ fps.
Bottom line - if your barrel twist is fast enough for the bullet and you can actually GET Trail Boss [difficult now], this combination will give you WMR performance at a fraction of the price of WMR ammo - and much better accuracy than most rifles in that caliber.


The OP is specifically wanting to replicate WMR loads.
But I agree, a heavier bullet with much better BC will retain velocity much better.

Why is your mate shooting his stock while it's in with the herd? If you're shooting one you want to separate it the night before.

Trailboss is the best for reduced loads, but AR2206H works just as well, unless you want to get well under 1000fps.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by MtnMan » 13 Aug 2021, 6:49 pm

I'm coming to realise that finding a bullet that both expands well at lower velocity AND is cheap is the hard part. If .22mag ammo is 60 cents each than that doesn't leave much room if your trying to really get the .22mag performance while being cheaper. Some bullets are $55-60/100pk and that puts you equal to .22mag straight away.

I've turned a few of the 4ogr Speer's into small hollow points by using the point of a small knife while turning a loaded round in my hand. I hope to test them over the weekend.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 13 Aug 2021, 6:53 pm

MtnMan wrote:I'm coming to realise that finding a bullet that both expands well at lower velocity AND is cheap is the hard part. If .22mag ammo is 60 cents each than that doesn't leave much room if your trying to really get the .22mag performance while being cheaper. Some bullets are $55-60/100pk and that puts you equal to .22mag straight away.

I've turned a few of the 4ogr Speer's into small hollow points by using the point of a small knife while turning a loaded round in my hand. I hope to test them over the weekend.


It is harder and more expensive to manufacture a bullet with a lighter jacket, but still strong enough to withstand extremely high RPM above 275,000RPM.
A much cheaper option might be to cast your own .225" bullets from soft lead, but you wouldn't want to push them much above 1500fps without powder-coating or paper-patching them. Recovered .22LR bullets are a "free" source of fairly soft lead.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by deye243 » 20 Aug 2021, 2:46 pm

Did some digging around in my ammo storage and found a heap of the old 222 rounds that I loaded with Winchester 22mag prodgys .
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by MtnMan » 16 Nov 2022, 7:53 am

Tried the 46gr Speer flat nose and swaged a hollow point with my 22lr HP swaging die.

At 2500fps they expand nicely. Not explosive but enough. Actually recovered one from under the hide of a large fox. It weighed just under 22grs. At least all the energy is being expended on the target now and not pencil holing like a FMJ.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by Express404 » 05 Mar 2023, 8:37 am

New to EG, just joined.. Good reading here thanks. I'm looking for info about reduced noise loads for my 223... mainly what powder to use and understand trailboss is impossible to find.. but 2206H sounds like it comes down nicely.. I also hear the softest bullets needed. I owned a 223 30 years and still have a mix of proxies.. I.ll have a look. We now lease a medium size farm and shootings some problem roos under Licence and prefer less (factory ammo) noise.. and about to reload 223 and 243 again after a long break (regularly do bigger cals).. I don't really want to use the hornet type bullets and want to do 200m. Does the 52gr Speed open at say 2600 or 2700fps.? What other 50, 52 or 55 will expand a bit out at 2600 or 2700 out at 100 to 200m..? Info from people who have actually done it, saves much effort. ( if this should be in a 223 section please advise).
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by animalpest » 07 Mar 2023, 2:14 pm

Express404 wrote:New to EG, just joined.. Good reading here thanks. I'm looking for info about reduced noise loads for my 223... mainly what powder to use and understand trailboss is impossible to find.. but 2206H sounds like it comes down nicely.. I also hear the softest bullets needed. I owned a 223 30 years and still have a mix of proxies.. I.ll have a look. We now lease a medium size farm and shootings some problem roos under Licence and prefer less (factory ammo) noise.. and about to reload 223 and 243 again after a long break (regularly do bigger cals).. I don't really want to use the hornet type bullets and want to do 200m. Does the 52gr Speed open at say 2600 or 2700fps.? What other 50, 52 or 55 will expand a bit out at 2600 or 2700 out at 100 to 200m..? Info from people who have actually done it, saves much effort. ( if this should be in a 223 section please advise).


If your shooting roos under licence you cannot use bullets weighing less than 50 gr in the .223. You will fall foul of the Code. While the current Code does not set out minimum energies or velocities of ammunition, it would be wise to keep loads similar to factory ammunition.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 07 Mar 2023, 3:59 pm

Express404 wrote:New to EG, just joined.. Good reading here thanks. I'm looking for info about reduced noise loads for my 223... mainly what powder to use and understand trailboss is impossible to find.. but 2206H sounds like it comes down nicely.. I also hear the softest bullets needed. I owned a 223 30 years and still have a mix of proxies.. I.ll have a look. We now lease a medium size farm and shootings some problem roos under Licence and prefer less (factory ammo) noise.. and about to reload 223 and 243 again after a long break (regularly do bigger cals).. I don't really want to use the hornet type bullets and want to do 200m. Does the 52gr Speed open at say 2600 or 2700fps.? What other 50, 52 or 55 will expand a bit out at 2600 or 2700 out at 100 to 200m..? Info from people who have actually done it, saves much effort. ( if this should be in a 223 section please advise).


Yep, AR2206H is the powder of choice, works great subsonic and at full-noise.
To have 2600fps at 200m you won't be reducing the load much if at all. Almost all jacketed bullets will deform very well at terminal speeds above about 1600fps. The VMax's are a good choice that should be readily available. If it's windy you might get better results with the heavier higher-BC bullets - head shots are not easy in wind at 200m.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by MtnMan » 08 Mar 2023, 10:44 am

2600fps at 200m? Stick with the factory loads. That is not a reduced load.

I just got hold of 200 40gr JHP .22mag bullets.
They are apparently Stirling bullets from the late 70's. Used to be sold loose back then in packs of 500.
Might run them at 2500fps with 20gr of AR2206H. Accuracy was better at 2500fps than lower than that with the 40gr speer bullets I used earlier in this thread.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 08 Mar 2023, 11:20 am

MtnMan wrote:2600fps at 200m? Stick with the factory loads. That is not a reduced load.

I just got hold of 200 40gr JHP .22mag bullets.
They are apparently Stirling bullets from the late 70's. Used to be sold loose back then in packs of 500.
Might run them at 2500fps with 20gr of AR2206H. Accuracy was better at 2500fps than lower than that with the 40gr speer bullets I used earlier in this thread.


Are these bullets available to the public?
I'd love to find a stash of the old Winchester WMR semi-jacketed HP's (also sold in loose 500rd packs), but I doubt I could push them very hard in modern twist rates.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Mar 2023, 11:41 am

Black widow is now selling 50gr 224 cast. I believe you can push them to about 2500fps. Cheap as chips. NFI how they mushroom though.

They will do a sample pack for postage only if you email them. Mine arrived in just a few days.

https://blackwidowprojectiles.com.au/?s=224
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by MtnMan » 08 Mar 2023, 12:03 pm

bladeracer wrote:
MtnMan wrote:2600fps at 200m? Stick with the factory loads. That is not a reduced load.

I just got hold of 200 40gr JHP .22mag bullets.
They are apparently Stirling bullets from the late 70's. Used to be sold loose back then in packs of 500.
Might run them at 2500fps with 20gr of AR2206H. Accuracy was better at 2500fps than lower than that with the 40gr speer bullets I used earlier in this thread.


Are these bullets available to the public?
I'd love to find a stash of the old Winchester WMR semi-jacketed HP's (also sold in loose 500rd packs), but I doubt I could push them very hard in modern twist rates.


No, a guy contacted me out of the blue on another forum. He had them in his stash since the 70's
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by MtnMan » 08 Mar 2023, 12:03 pm

bladeracer wrote:
MtnMan wrote:2600fps at 200m? Stick with the factory loads. That is not a reduced load.

I just got hold of 200 40gr JHP .22mag bullets.
They are apparently Stirling bullets from the late 70's. Used to be sold loose back then in packs of 500.
Might run them at 2500fps with 20gr of AR2206H. Accuracy was better at 2500fps than lower than that with the 40gr speer bullets I used earlier in this thread.


Are these bullets available to the public?
I'd love to find a stash of the old Winchester WMR semi-jacketed HP's (also sold in loose 500rd packs), but I doubt I could push them very hard in modern twist rates.


No, a guy contacted me out of the blue on another forum. He had them in his stash since the 70's
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by MtnMan » 08 Mar 2023, 12:04 pm

If there was a source I would let you know.......after I bought them all.
Ha ha ha.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bladeracer » 08 Mar 2023, 12:39 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Black widow is now selling 50gr 224 cast. I believe you can push them to about 2500fps. Cheap as chips. NFI how they mushroom though.

They will do a sample pack for postage only if you email them. Mine arrived in just a few days.

https://blackwidowprojectiles.com.au/?s=224


Let us know how they go when you get a chance to try them. What twist rate are you planning to push them through?
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Mar 2023, 1:36 pm

Will be a while. Short of cases and time atm. 1/9 marlin bolt action AS50N.
About 2000fps is the plan. A member here gave me some trail boss. So might try that too.
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Re: .222Rem loading down to .22mag

Post by bigpete » 09 Mar 2023, 5:08 am

MtnMan wrote:Tried the 46gr Speer flat nose and swaged a hollow point with my 22lr HP swaging die.

At 2500fps they expand nicely. Not explosive but enough. Actually recovered one from under the hide of a large fox. It weighed just under 22grs. At least all the energy is being expended on the target now and not pencil holing like a FMJ.


Funny,I'm running them theoretically at under 2000 fps,and they've been pretty explosive on the few things I've shot
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