Another ADI update 16 Dec 21

[JimTom]

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/2021/12 ... nt-update/

[bladeracer]

It's good that they do hope to release some AR2205 next year, but no Trailboss or pistol/shotgun powders "for the foreseeable future" is not good news

[geoff]

I don't shoot any centrefire pistols so thankfully I'm not too affected but this is bleak for anyone that does. Brutal outlook

[Bills Shed]

Yep, it looks like the pistol boys are getting shafted. How does this effect range attendance and compliance issues for their disciplines?

Bill

[bladeracer]

I don't shoot any centrefire pistols so thankfully I'm not too affected but this is bleak for anyone that does. Brutal outlook

Neither do I, but I do shoot pistol cartridges in rifles, like .38Sp, .357Mag, 9mm, .44Mag, and .45Colt.
Pistol/shotgun powders are also excellent for reduced rifle loads.

AR2205 should work in all of the above though, I just hope they manage to get some on the shelves before too long.

[Bruiser64]

Not good for pistol shooters. I use BM2 and AR2209. Things look fine for them. Projectile and primer availability is the issue at the moment apparently.

[JimTom]

It's good that they do hope to release some AR2205 next year, but no Trailboss or pistol/shotgun powders "for the foreseeable future" is not good news

Terrible news, hoping to see some 2205 about again too.

[northdude]

We have a real shortage of 2209 over here as in none

[bigrich]

We have a real shortage of 2209 over here as in none

If you can get it , reloader 19 and 22 are good powders. 22 has been outstanding in 6.5x55 and 270 Winchester for me

[No1Mk3]

The pinheads at ADI have really spat in the face of Aussie pistol shooters by scrapping the double base capacity before their single base powders were thoroughly developed and proven, so pulling the new powders has left us with almost nothing. Because the old double base was so popular, due to availability, effectiveness and good price point, importers of alternative powders simply stopped getting in any quantities so now we are left to buy factory ammo or risk missing shoots and LRD in Vic will not accept lack of reloading capacity as a genuine reason for not making minimum attendance. Would love to be rich enough to import some now, have contacts with some major ammo makers and would be interesting to see if they would, or could, export a couple of ton of pistol powder but ADI might start up again and leave me posted with a ton of powder as everyone ran back to them. Personally I think stuff ADI and I will from now on only buy imported powder if I can, Cheers.

[Bugman]

It's good that they do hope to release some AR2205 next year, but no Trailboss or pistol/shotgun powders "for the foreseeable future" is not good news

That does concern me, and no doubt, along with other pistol shooters. I have one and a half containers of trailboss and even though that is a fair amount, I am starting to limit the matches I shoot etc. Not happy. But there you have it.

[disco stu]

The pinheads at ADI have really spat in the face of Aussie pistol shooters by scrapping the double base capacity before their single base powders were thoroughly developed and proven.

My first thought on hearing about the cause was this was a bit of a stuff up, not having some redundancy in case the new way doesn't work

[bladeracer]

The pinheads at ADI have really spat in the face of Aussie pistol shooters by scrapping the double base capacity before their single base powders were thoroughly developed and proven.

My first thought on hearing about the cause was this was a bit of a stuff up, not having some redundancy in case the new way doesn't work

Yep, it's a mess. I'm assuming their strategy somehow removed the option of stepping back to producing the AP/AS powders in case APS didn't work out, which was very, very stupid.

I struggle to see it as spitting in the face of shooters though, they just made a major error that is costing them pretty dearly I think. If they were able to turn out the old powders still, I'm sure they would be doing so, even at a loss just to recover their reputation. I can't believe they're choosing to ignore the market.

I'd be interested if anybody knows exactly how big pistol and shotgun powder sales are compared to rifle powders in Australia.

I think only a small percentage of shotgun users load their own, and mainly for competition use. You get around 600rds out of a kilo of powder, so somebody shooting 100rds per month is burning 2kg of powder per year? Would we have many more than 10,000 regular shooters in Australia shooting competitions every month? Of those, would 10% be shooting reloads? So perhaps 2000kg of powder sales per year? That seems high to me, but I don't shoot competition.

A larger percentage of pistol shooters likely reload, but they're limited to only being able to shoot at ranges, and a kilo of powder lasts a very long time in pistol loads. I have no idea how many regular pistol shooters we have nowadays, but could it be 20,000 perhaps, shooting every month? Maybe 20% reloading? You get somewhere around 1500-3000rds of pistol ammo out of a kilo of powder, but how many pistol shooters are shooting 1500rds+ every year? Maybe 10% of the 20% that reload? So about 3500 reloading for minimum levels of attendance (say, 1000rds), and 500 loading 3000rds+? Maybe 1500-2000kg of pistol powder sales per year?

So yearly sales of perhaps 4000kg or half-a-million dollars retail across pistol and shotgun competition?

Then we have those (like myself) that don't shoot pistol competition, but use a fair amount of pistol/shotgun powders in rifles for hunting and informal practice. But, again, we get a lot of loads out of these powders compared to our full-noise rifle cartridges, so the market is probably not huge.

Compared to what I can only guess is a reasonably hefty number of centrefire competition rifle shooters, with a decent percentage loading their own ammo. These shooters are only getting 200-600rds out of a kilo of powder, and probably buy multiple kilos at a time. This market must be well into the tens of thousands of kilograms of powders per year? Just one F-Class shooter putting 1000rds through his .284 Shehane is likely burning a 4kg bottle of powder in the one rifle. And one fox shooter putting 2500rds through his .204 or .223 is burning a 4kg bottle in one rifle.

So a _very_ rough guesstimate would make the combined pistol/shotgun powder market something like 5% of the rifle powder market - at most?

I don't shoot competition so I have no idea what percentage of shooters do shoot competition, or even shoot at ranges. And as I have loaded my own ammo since day-one I'm regularly surprised to find that some people actually buy their centrefire ammo instead of making their own. So my numbers are likely miles off reality

[wanneroo]

Sounds like you may as well forget about whatever ADI is doing and the importers in the business should start seeking overseas powders.

There is pistol powder on the shelf here in the USA, so it's being released to the reloading market.

[bladeracer]

Sounds like you may as well forget about whatever ADI is doing and the importers in the business should start seeking overseas powders.

There is pistol powder on the shelf here in the USA, so it's being released to the reloading market.

Importers should've been onto it more than a year ago, but then Covid hit which probably made it non-viable?
Much the same as why we have shortages of primers and rimfire ammo now.

Including Hodgdon pistol powders?

[wanneroo]

Sounds like you may as well forget about whatever ADI is doing and the importers in the business should start seeking overseas powders.

There is pistol powder on the shelf here in the USA, so it's being released to the reloading market.

Importers should've been onto it more than a year ago, but then Covid hit which probably made it non-viable?
Much the same as why we have shortages of primers and rimfire ammo now.

Including Hodgdon pistol powders?

CFE Pistol is on the shelf everywhere along with H110/W296.

I'm about to visit some gun stores and hopefully will visit one of the big reloading wholesalers in the state that also does a bit of retail if you turn up at their shop. We will see what the latest is.

[rc42]

There is a large Alliant shipment due to be brought in by Nioa, no date yet but it was rumored for end of this year or start of next year. Cleavers are still accepting back orders for it, hopefully there will be some left after those are fulfilled and other QLD dealers will get some. I wouldn't expect it to get out of QLD though, and the next shipment could be another year or more away.

The return of AR2205 is good news, it can be used in most pistol calibers, even 9mm where I've successfully tested an 8.6gn compressed 2205 load with magnum primer and a 147gn projectile with good results. It probably burns too slowly for lighter projectiles but other calibers have higher case capacity so it is better suited there.

Shotgun reloaders will have no option but commercial ammunition but load development and improving group size isn't really an issue there, reloading just saves them a little money.

The powder shortage and primer shortage is going to make pistol reloading more of a challenge for the next few years, especially for those new to shooting that want to get into that part of the hobby.

[Bill]

Ive been stashing Alliant powders away for a while, got 4 lbs of Power Pro 300 to run in my 357 and hopefully shortly my 500 S&W. Having a decent stash of powder and primers is like having money in the bank.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Im glad that i consider myself a horder it pays off in times like these.

[mchughcb]

Shotgun reloaders will have no option but commercial ammunition but load development and improving group size isn't really an issue there, reloading just saves them a little money.

I'll be working up some tungsten loads for next year. With no powder it will be a challenge but I'm working through it.

[yoshie]

The pinheads at ADI have really spat in the face of Aussie pistol shooters

Personally I think stuff ADI and I will from now on only buy imported powder if I can, Cheers.

That's the way I feel, I won't be buying any more powder from ADI again.

[Bugman]

Yes it is frustrating yoshie, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I feel as you feel but I am being patient. I believe in all good things come to he who waits. If of course, their is no more Trail Boss (my favourite) by then end of 2022 then obviously "f&%k ADI

[Marlin44]

There is a large Alliant shipment due to be brought in by Nioa, no date yet but it was rumored for end of this year or start of next year.

According to NIOA last week, "there is no Alliant shipment due in the forseeable future".

Thales do not give a rats rectum about the sporting market in this country - too much money to be made with Defence contracts.

[rc42]

I saw a forum post somewhere that mentioned a news story about a the only ship able to carry propellant powder being turned around and sent back to the US.
I wasn't able to find confirmation of it but it sounds like that may be the case, there certainly was an Alliant due around now.

[in2anity]

It’s primers everyone should be worried about