ADI PRIMERS

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2022, 2:52 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Yes, the regulatory requirements do set a high bar & and do add a lot of cost.

Edit: But we don't have the catastrophic incidents that many countries have in that industry.


That is a bit like the take everybody's firearms so we don't have any gun violence arguement ;-)

Catastrophic incidents certainly do happen, but are incredibly rare, hardly reason enough to avoid doing it.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 3:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Yes, the regulatory requirements do set a high bar & and do add a lot of cost.

Edit: But we don't have the catastrophic incidents that many countries have in that industry.


That is a bit like the take everybody's firearms so we don't have any gun violence arguement ;-)

Catastrophic incidents certainly do happen, but are incredibly rare, hardly reason enough to avoid doing it.


I guess that's why they are rare.


And this stuff is far less energetic and far less sensitive than most pyrotechnics.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _disasters
Last edited by Oldbloke on 20 Mar 2022, 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by geoff » 20 Mar 2022, 3:51 pm

Oldbloke wrote:" I said it in my first post. If ADI wanted to produce primers in Australia they would. But it's obvious the market case does not stack up"

I didn't see that. Lol. I thought you were saying they can't. Lol. Yes it's just $

P.S. As I said they can set up very quickly if they want.


What on earth could possibly give you that indication

Sure we might have made primers here back when my great grandaddy went to war, I'm not sure others will be experts in that timeline not me, but if that gear is still just lying around, big if, on what planet could you just walk up and kick it in the guts and pump out primers?

Newsflash: precision manufacturing of dangerous goods is a bit of a different game nowadays to what it was 80 years ago and maybe it's a bit of a technical challenge
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by on_one_wheel » 20 Mar 2022, 3:59 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Yes, the regulatory requirements do set a high bar & and do add a lot of cost.
Edit: But we don't have the catastrophic incidents that many countries have in that industry.


Unfortunately we have had catastrophic incidents with manufacturing and handling of explosives.
The two that come to mind were Gladstone SA where a manufacturing plant exploded and the other I recall was at Olympic Dam's underground operation.
While our standards are set high, it's up to all levels of employees from management through to thr new guy on the broom to ensure these standards are upheld... sometimes safety goes by the wayside when production pressures mount.
Gladstone explosion was eventually blamed on Management as was Olympic Dam
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 4:14 pm

Around the world there are a couple every year. Getting a detailed list would be almost impossible as the industry does its best to keep it out of the media. Here is just a few.

https://www.explosionhazards.co.uk/list ... xplosions/
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 4:20 pm

"Gladstone SA where a manufacturing plant exploded" I remember that one. 2 or 3 killed from memory. I think it resulted in worksafe SA creating a dangerous goods department and specialised training.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 4:27 pm

Here is a more recent one. I remember it well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-06/ ... rt/5724512

And, fireworks are good fun.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _incidents
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2022, 9:33 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here is a more recent one. I remember it well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-06/ ... rt/5724512

And, fireworks are good fun.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _incidents


And how many died on the roads or from alcohol?
Lots of things have dangers inherent in them.
Some believe merely owning firearms is dangerous.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by cz515 » 21 Mar 2022, 6:42 am

It's about our mentality that even one injury or death... the whole universe will fall over.

Not taking about primers, but in general. We legislate and create rules, and keep on creating rules, for the dumb people, and for people with no common-sense.

All it means that people just stop thinking for themselves
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Mar 2022, 9:38 am

cz515 wrote:It's about our mentality that even one injury or death... the whole universe will fall over.

Not taking about primers, but in general. We legislate and create rules, and keep on creating rules, for the dumb people, and for people with no common-sense.

All it means that people just stop thinking for themselves


I always like it, blame the victim he was dumb. Grouse. :sarcasm:

Scenario,
Pedestrian in chook factory is walking to feed the chooks. Forklift comes along and his brakes fail. Pedestrian is crushed dies slowly over several hours. Leaves 2 kids and a wife.
They are happy because they get some money. :sarcasm:

There are regulations about maintaining plant, and traffic control but owner says fk it cost too much.

So he and you blame the pedestrian. He was dumb. He was doing what he was told.
Owner gets convicted anyway about a $50,000 fine would be typical.

Yep, regulation is a real pain, isn't it.

The above happens all the time, just the plant and place changes.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by cz515 » 21 Mar 2022, 10:16 am

Yet again you have inferred more then what I said. I said rules after rules, regulations after regulations. Which means I agree some rules are important.

But let's see the ohs side, which I seen in many factories and warehouse. There are clearly labled walkways where pedestrians walk. There are usually guards. But then a driver can do a bad one and his forks can still stab a walker because it was guards. Then you put a cage. Then again a walker dies cuz the forky tipped his 2T loadand the cage couldn't support the 2T load. What are you going to do then mate. Keep on legislating more and more until.

I have also seen plenty of times where workers just sidestep the guards cuz its the shortest way to the loos. How will you stop the death from stupidity and laziness in that case.

I regularly pass roadworks, seen plenty of times the lollipop girl is yakking to the workers without a care in the world about the safety of drivers. Or how you need 6 people looking at an excavator guy doing his work. I can understand 1 spotter. But 6? And yes most of them are taking to each other cuz they are bored. I recon that's more unsafe.

In your example unless you have a forklift that's rough terrain, it's probably a bobcat or a telehandler. Both run on hydraulics and have no brakes
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by cz515 » 21 Mar 2022, 10:26 am

You also made an interesting reference. So its legislated that's a business owner will be held liable and jail for a death at workplace. So why don't we have any cases against the politicians and senior public servants for 800 deaths in 2020 due to their incompetence.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by ash_hendo » 23 Mar 2022, 9:42 pm

wanneroo wrote:With the way the world is going they better start learning how to make them.


so true.....
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Mar 2022, 7:12 am

cz515 wrote:It's about our mentality that even one injury or death... the whole universe will fall over.

Not taking about primers, but in general. We legislate and create rules, and keep on creating rules, for the dumb people, and for people with no common-sense.

All it means that people just stop thinking for themselves


Just one death, pretty easy to say, ,,until it's your wife or child.

What I'm saying is don't assume people are injured because they are dumb, mostly it's out of their control. They don't control the workplace the owner does.

Jail terms, don't make me laugh, as rare as rocking horse sh1t.

Politicians, we'll unfortunately they get away with far too much. But keep in mind they don't supervise every government employee daily.

Yes, some people are stupid at times, can't agree more.

We are a rules base society, without laws and regulation it would be chaos.

Way off topic.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by cz515 » 24 Mar 2022, 2:22 pm

Mate I do want to make a point. I am not against ohs. There have to be commonsense rules other wise there are too many dodgy employers.

Hence my example about the forky. After a while though all rules will do is make life harder for everyone, but not stop the guy who will jump the fence and run into a forklift
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Mar 2022, 2:30 pm

Yes, You can't help stupid.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by cz515 » 26 Mar 2022, 8:32 am

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 5a7rm.html

This is what I have been saying for a couple of years. Instead of spending money on military trinkets, we need to spend it inside our country. We are behind everyone in science and technology research, quantum computing, medical research.
And all of this starts with schools, universities and hospitals. A funny thing for the last few years Victoria education department has a policy that times tables will not be thought until grade 4/5..... something they have now realised is wrong and thankfully changing. Imagine a kid who cannot do a 4 times tables, what good are they going to be at anything in life
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Jul 2022, 10:57 am

Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by wanneroo » 28 Jul 2022, 11:53 am

Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


China!! What!
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by on_one_wheel » 28 Jul 2022, 12:32 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


Nothing like cheap child labour to get the job done on the cheap.
I'd rather pay more.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Lazarus » 28 Jul 2022, 12:45 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


G'day oldbloke

I'm not disputing just wondering, where did you hear that ADI get their primers from the Peril?

I spent 15min looking and can't find a single reference to them exporting any weapons, ammo or components to any western nation.
Doesn't mean they don't, just means it's beyond my search string creating abilities.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by No1_49er » 28 Jul 2022, 1:24 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


G'day oldbloke

I'm not disputing just wondering, where did you hear that ADI get their primers from the Peril?

I spent 15min looking and can't find a single reference to them exporting any weapons, ammo or components to any western nation.
Doesn't mean they don't, just means it's beyond my search string creating abilities.

If we want to get a bit serious about this "argument", tell all you buddies to stop buying all those fekking Norinco's. Just where is it that you think they come from?
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Lazarus » 28 Jul 2022, 1:34 pm

No1_49er wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


G'day oldbloke

I'm not disputing just wondering, where did you hear that ADI get their primers from the Peril?

I spent 15min looking and can't find a single reference to them exporting any weapons, ammo or components to any western nation.
Doesn't mean they don't, just means it's beyond my search string creating abilities.

If we want to get a bit serious about this "argument", tell all you buddies to stop buying all those fekking Norinco's. Just where is it that you think they come from?


There you go, there's one I missed completely :oops:

I don't actually know anyone who would bother with shyte like Norinco so there's that in my meagre defence
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by deye243 » 28 Jul 2022, 2:22 pm

Lazarus wrote:
No1_49er wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


G'day oldbloke

I'm not disputing just wondering, where did you hear that ADI get their primers from the Peril?

I spent 15min looking and can't find a single reference to them exporting any weapons, ammo or components to any western nation.
Doesn't mean they don't, just means it's beyond my search string creating abilities.

If we want to get a bit serious about this "argument", tell all you buddies to stop buying all those fekking Norinco's. Just where is it that you think they come from?


There you go, there's one I missed completely :oops:

I don't actually know anyone who would bother with shyte like Norinco so there's that in my meagre defence

I used to think the same thing and then several years ago we tricked up a couple of 45 Autos they were every bit as good as my Springfield armoury 45 after that.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Lazarus » 28 Jul 2022, 2:37 pm

deye243 wrote:I used to think the same thing and then several years ago we tricked up a couple of 45 Autos they were every bit as good as my Springfield armoury 45 after that.


Well there you go, learn something every day :drinks:
I let my overall opinion on chinese products influence me.

They do have the wherewithal to produce world class products when they want or need to, like the microchips everyone's clamouring for now they've rationed them, but the majority of their manufacturing exports are a bit like Japanese products were in the 50s and 60s.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by geoff » 28 Jul 2022, 2:54 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


G'day oldbloke

I'm not disputing just wondering, where did you hear that ADI get their primers from the Peril?

I spent 15min looking and can't find a single reference to them exporting any weapons, ammo or components to any western nation.
Doesn't mean they don't, just means it's beyond my search string creating abilities.


I doubt you'll be furnished with a credible source for that claim.

Real big "my mate's brothers dog trainer's hairdressers cousin said that davo from the pub down the road heard from his nan..." kinda vibes. I'm reasonably certain, particularly after the last 9 years of sabre rattling, that one of Australia's defence munitions suppliers wouldn't be buying components for said munitions from China
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jul 2022, 4:17 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Just a follow up. ADI stopped making primers a few years ago. Reason cost.

Was told they are now importing them from China. :violin:


I wasn't aware they ever made primers, at least not here in Australia. Do they produce enough smallarms ammunition to warrant the investment in primer production?

Also seems unlikely they'd import from China when they have ties with Canadian, European, and US manufacturers.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jul 2022, 5:00 pm

Lazarus wrote:I don't actually know anyone who would bother with shyte like Norinco so there's that in my meagre defence


I'm a Norinco fan. They are possibly the largest smallarms manufacturer in the world as they arm the Chinese military as well as exporting to the rest of the world, except the US.

I own two, both .22LR, and both are copies of highly-regarded Western designs, the Winchester M9422 and the Brno Model 1. The JW21 has no significant issues although I have replaced the secondary extractor twice, and have broken the magazine interrupter after many thousands of rounds. I want to try a Winchester part when I can find one. The JW25A has very poorly designed sights, but with a scope she shoots very well. I think the action is the same as the JW15, also a copy of the CZ.
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by Lazarus » 28 Jul 2022, 5:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lazarus wrote:I don't actually know anyone who would bother with shyte like Norinco so there's that in my meagre defence


I'm a Norinco fan. They are possibly the largest smallarms manufacturer in the world as they arm the Chinese military as well as exporting to the rest of the world, except the US.

I own two, both .22LR, and both are copies of highly-regarded Western designs, the Winchester M9422 and the Brno Model 1. The JW21 has no significant issues although I have replaced the secondary extractor twice, and have broken the magazine interrupter after many thousands of rounds. I want to try a Winchester part when I can find one. The JW25A has very poorly designed sights, but with a scope she shoots very well. I think the action is the same as the JW15, also a copy of the CZ.


I stand corrected
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Re: ADI PRIMERS

Post by No1Mk3 » 28 Jul 2022, 5:18 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lazarus wrote:I don't actually know anyone who would bother with shyte like Norinco so there's that in my meagre defence


I'm a Norinco fan. They are possibly the largest smallarms manufacturer in the world as they arm the Chinese military as well as exporting to the rest of the world, except the US.

I own two, both .22LR, and both are copies of highly-regarded Western designs, the Winchester M9422 and the Brno Model 1. The JW21 has no significant issues although I have replaced the secondary extractor twice, and have broken the magazine interrupter after many thousands of rounds. I want to try a Winchester part when I can find one. The JW25A has very poorly designed sights, but with a scope she shoots very well. I think the action is the same as the JW15, also a copy of the CZ.


Such a close copy of the CZ/Brno that I can interchange the bolts between my 2E and the Norc with ease. Really like my Norinco rifles and pistols, but the trigger on the NZ85 is the very epitome of "gritty"! i could clean it up but I have other fish to fry.
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