ADI PRIMERS

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ADI PRIMERS

Post by flashman » 13 Mar 2022, 8:49 am

Hi all hope all doing well , in the shed yesterday with a couple of shooting mate`s having a winge about powders ect .OK where dose ADI get its primers from ,1= do they make them ,or 2= imported , you would think Australia would have the ability to make our own ...........
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Post by bladeracer » 13 Mar 2022, 10:41 am

flashman wrote:Hi all hope all doing well , in the shed yesterday with a couple of shooting mate`s having a winge about powders ect .OK where dose ADI get its primers from ,1= do they make them ,or 2= imported , you would think Australia would have the ability to make our own ...........


Imported. I don't believe any primers are made here in Oz.
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Post by Oldbloke » 13 Mar 2022, 10:46 am

bladeracer wrote:
flashman wrote:Hi all hope all doing well , in the shed yesterday with a couple of shooting mate`s having a winge about powders ect .OK where dose ADI get its primers from ,1= do they make them ,or 2= imported , you would think Australia would have the ability to make our own ...........


Imported. I don't believe any primers are made here in Oz.


I suspect Bladeracer is correct.

However ADI certainly did have the capacity to manufacture them. Probably not profitable and they are "risky" to make. So they could be the reasons why currently not in production.
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Post by No1Mk3 » 13 Mar 2022, 3:31 pm

We could make primers easily, we make our own detonators at Deer Park.
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Post by Oldbloke » 13 Mar 2022, 3:51 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:We could make primers easily, we make our own detonators at Deer Park.


Yep
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Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 13 Mar 2022, 4:37 pm

One day they will hipefully wake up and start producing them. Had a recent trip to cleavers the other day and my god the shelves were looking bare.
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Post by wanneroo » 14 Mar 2022, 1:15 am

With the way the world is going they better start learning how to make them.
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Post by flashman » 14 Mar 2022, 7:32 am

We must of had the capability in ww2, you would think with what`s happening world wide that they would commit and start manufacturing them. They could kill 2 birds with 1 stone ,military would have a supply and we get the left overs..............
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Post by olly_2001 » 18 Mar 2022, 8:37 am

Digging stuff up to buy RE is the main priority. Making stuff not so much. Its hard to see the end to these shortages.
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Post by cz515 » 18 Mar 2022, 9:26 am

Well it's simple. It's far cheaper to import them then to build a factory and produce them here. If it wasn't then a they would have done it. Simple economics. And with shortages in the industry they have 2 years to plan/ build.

But I suspect, and everyone will have a whine about me saying this. But the wages here are just too high. No incentives from government and people to entitled. Was taking to a couple of boileys and they were having a whine how $60 bucks and hour on wages is not enough. And most place in Melbourne and Brisbane only want to pay 45 bucks. I understand why they be posted off cuz the unskilled labourer is getting 50-100+/hr and even the traffic loppypop girls are on 50+ an hour.

The reality from a manufacturer perspective is even America you can get cheaper labour. But eastern Europe you can have better skilled workforce for 1/3 the price even if they start making them now unless people want to pay $17/1000 for primers in 2 years when things settle down and primers maybe back to $10 or less they will have invested hundred of millions of dollars for a plant no one wants to buy the printers from (well not enough to sustain it)
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Post by Oldbloke » 18 Mar 2022, 9:30 am

olly_2001 wrote:Digging stuff up to buy RE is the main priority. Making stuff not so much. Its hard to see the end to these shortages.


I'd guess only a few people would be needed to get a production line started. That's assuming they have the equipment/facility.
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Post by cz515 » 18 Mar 2022, 11:57 am

Oldbloke wrote:
olly_2001 wrote:Digging stuff up to buy RE is the main priority. Making stuff not so much. Its hard to see the end to these shortages.


I'd guess only a few people would be needed to get a production line started. That's assuming they have the equipment/facility.


Why don't you start it up. See a few youtube videos.
While there you can build nuclear bombs and rockets as well.

If they were that simple, Remington, federal, cci etc etc would have doubled their factories by now and there won't be a primer shortage.
Last edited by cz515 on 18 Mar 2022, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Oldbloke » 18 Mar 2022, 12:29 pm

cz515 wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
olly_2001 wrote:Digging stuff up to buy RE is the main priority. Making stuff not so much. Its hard to see the end to these shortages.


I'd guess only a few people would be needed to get a production line started. That's assuming they have the equipment/facility.


Why don't you start it up. See a few youtube videos.
While there you can build nuclear bonds and rockets as well.

If they were that simple, Remington, federal, cci etc etc would have doubled their factories by now and there won't be a primer shortage.


During ww1 and ww2 we made ALL our ammo. It isn't new. Take my word for it, we still make plenty of munitions now.

Aust has launched Oz made rockets from Woomera in the 60s, or was it the 70s? The science is not new.

"While there you can build nuclear bonds (sic) and rockets as well?"

A. Not my field of speciality.
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Post by cz515 » 18 Mar 2022, 12:56 pm

In 1960s you needed a factory to house a computer in 2022 a smart watch on our wrist is more powerful then that computer.

In 1980s people were building computers in their own garages (imagine Dell). If you look at the history of Intel they started producing microprocessors from a single room in a factory setup overnight the total size of company was less then 20 people. With equipment bought over the shelf. Now a semiconductor fab plant costs tens of billions of dollars and need hundreds of staff to run it.

In short if it's not your field of speciality, saying flippant remarks just sounds a bit funny coming from an adult.
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Post by bladeracer » 18 Mar 2022, 3:11 pm

It would be worth setting up you have a ten or twenty year contract to supply the government, and/or an export market. Not worth it just to supply the Australian market.


cz515 wrote:Well it's simple. It's far cheaper to import them then to build a factory and produce them here. If it wasn't then a they would have done it. Simple economics. And with shortages in the industry they have 2 years to plan/ build.

But I suspect, and everyone will have a whine about me saying this. But the wages here are just too high. No incentives from government and people to entitled. Was taking to a couple of boileys and they were having a whine how $60 bucks and hour on wages is not enough. And most place in Melbourne and Brisbane only want to pay 45 bucks. I understand why they be posted off cuz the unskilled labourer is getting 50-100+/hr and even the traffic loppypop girls are on 50+ an hour.

The reality from a manufacturer perspective is even America you can get cheaper labour. But eastern Europe you can have better skilled workforce for 1/3 the price even if they start making them now unless people want to pay $17/1000 for primers in 2 years when things settle down and primers maybe back to $10 or less they will have invested hundred of millions of dollars for a plant no one wants to buy the printers from (well not enough to sustain it)
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Post by Oldbloke » 18 Mar 2022, 4:07 pm

[quote="cz515"]In 1960s you needed a factory to house a computer in 2022 a smart watch on our wrist is more powerful then that computer.

In 1980s people were building computers in their own garages (imagine Dell). If you look at the history of Intel they started producing microprocessors from a single room in a factory setup overnight the total size of company was less then 20 people. With equipment bought over the shelf. Now a semiconductor fab plant costs tens of billions of dollars and need hundreds of staff to run it.

In short if it's not your field of speciality, saying flippant remarks just sounds a bit funny coming from an adult.[/quote]

It's become clear you have NFI.
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Post by flashman » 19 Mar 2022, 7:58 am

Get private enterprise involved if they sniff a dollar they will jump on it .
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Post by geoff » 19 Mar 2022, 8:56 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
olly_2001 wrote:Digging stuff up to buy RE is the main priority. Making stuff not so much. Its hard to see the end to these shortages.


I'd guess only a few people would be needed to get a production line started. That's assuming they have the equipment/facility.



LOL what a comment. Why aren't there umpteen more primer plants getting slapped up these days

Get the boys around, put on a few cartons and a BBQ for the arvo, knock up a primer factory
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Post by cz515 » 19 Mar 2022, 9:02 pm

flashman wrote:Get private enterprise involved if they sniff a dollar they will jump on it .


You do realise that ADI is owned by Thales a large defence contractor. If there was a quid to be made in primers... they would have done it already.
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Post by geoff » 19 Mar 2022, 9:09 pm

Half of this thread is that Principal Skinner meme

"Am I the one who is wrong about how expensive and complex it is to make primers? No. No the entire rest of the global domestic washout of the military industrial complex is wrong"
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Post by on_one_wheel » 19 Mar 2022, 11:38 pm

geoff wrote:Get the boys around, put on a few cartons and a BBQ for the arvo, knock up a primer factory


Count me in !, just as long as we can pump primers out one end and sticks of TNT out the other... I'll bring me best esky to sit on :drinks:
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Post by wanneroo » 19 Mar 2022, 11:54 pm

As I pointed out a few months ago in another thread, a corporation bought up an old US military ammo plant outside Texarkana Texas and is hiring 400 people to make....Primers.

There are not many manufacturers in the world of primers so this will be a welcome addition.

There has been a huge expansion of new shooters and reloaders in the USA over the past 15 years so it's clear current production just cannot meet the needs of the market anymore.

As I was pointing out to someone recently as to why I bought some more primers at an inflated price the other week when I have plenty of primers on hand, I can make a variety of different bullets work, even cast my own. I have plenty of brass on hand I can reuse over and over. There are a wide variety of powders I can use to make this or that work. But if you don't have anything to reliably ignite all that you are going nowhere. Primers are the key.foundational block.
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Post by cz515 » 20 Mar 2022, 6:16 am

So as Geoff and I asserted. It's not like making lollies, you can't just call up a bunch of your mates to a bbq and open up a primer factory.

Its Been a few months and still they are setting up, they need 400 people for the factory. Means it's a little more advanced then the local tuc shop.
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Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 8:22 am

No1Mk3 wrote:We could make primers easily, we make our own detonators at Deer Park.


No1Mk3 is correct.
Do you blokes really think that AU does not have the ability to make primers? FMD, we made zillions of 303 ammo and bombs during the world wars.

For yonks, Winchester made ammo in Geelong since the 60s, closed now. ICI in Melbourne, made all sorts of 22lr and shotty ammo, since perhaps 1920s or 30s.

If ADI want they can make them. And I'd bet production would start up pretty dam fast if they really wanted to.

http://www.australian-munitions.com.au/products/

http://vhd.heritage.vic.gov.au/search/n ... tail/65266

https://www.winchesteraustralia.com.au/videos

BTW, there are other companies also making munitions in AU.

I will repeat. Nothing new in making primers. It's old technology.
And it would be very unlikely that bulk priming compound would be transported internationally due to its hazardous nature.

"Texarkana Texas and is hiring 400 people to make....Primers". This is likely to build and commission the facility not operate it. The production would be highly automated.
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Post by cz515 » 20 Mar 2022, 9:14 am

No as usual you see whatever you want to see and launch an argument. But let's look at your argument

All these companies you talk about closed down. Why? Simple economics either the market was too small to sustain the manufacturing locally, and/or the cost was too high to produce them locally.

Look at Winchester in your neighbourhood. They closed their ammo production facility in Geelong cuz its cheaper to buy from overseas so unless the govt is prepared to subsidise a facility producing primers/ammo for civilian market its not going to work. And which government will want to run the gauntlet of GCA etc.

Seriously they don't even have money to put into a reasonable healthcare or education system or into scientists researching in STEM fields.

I said it in my first post. If ADI wanted to produce primers in Australia they would. But it's obvious the market case does not stack up
Last edited by cz515 on 20 Mar 2022, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by flashman » 20 Mar 2022, 9:15 am

Ok i get that ADI import all there primers ,ok that said what will happen to the ordinary shooter who carn't obtain primers , tried all my local Gun shops ,zilch,,,,nanda,,,
one shop said that's it for reloading and only doing accessories and guns ...................my reloading bench looks good though...........
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Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2022, 10:28 am

flashman wrote:Ok i get that ADI import all there primers ,ok that said what will happen to the ordinary shooter who carn't obtain primers , tried all my local Gun shops ,zilch,,,,nanda,,,
one shop said that's it for reloading and only doing accessories and guns ...................my reloading bench looks good though...........


The issue nowadays is that nobody can transport ammo/powders/primers.
Your locals might not be able to get them but other shops might have plenty still.
Find some six-hours away, order plenty to make it worthwhile, then make a trip to collect them. If you can find somebody local to there that can collect and hold them for you then you won't need to go during work hours.
What area are you in?
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Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 11:04 am

" I said it in my first post. If ADI wanted to produce primers in Australia they would. But it's obvious the market case does not stack up"

I didn't see that. Lol. I thought you were saying they can't. Lol. Yes it's just $

P.S. As I said they can set up very quickly if they want.
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Post by cz515 » 20 Mar 2022, 11:08 am

bladeracer wrote:
flashman wrote:Ok i get that ADI import all there primers ,ok that said what will happen to the ordinary shooter who carn't obtain primers , tried all my local Gun shops ,zilch,,,,nanda,,,
one shop said that's it for reloading and only doing accessories and guns ...................my reloading bench looks good though...........


The issue nowadays is that nobody can transport ammo/powders/primers.
Your locals might not be able to get them but other shops might have plenty still.
Find some six-hours away, order plenty to make it worthwhile, then make a trip to collect them. If you can find somebody local to there that can collect and hold them for you then you won't need to go during work hours.
What area are you in?


All the regulations making it hard
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Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2022, 11:27 am

Yes, the regulatory requirements do set a high bar & and do add a lot of cost.

Edit: But we don't have the catastrophic incidents that many countries have in that industry.
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