Scratched Die

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Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 23 Apr 2014, 11:25 pm

Tonight I did some full length sizing of .223 cartridges and noticed a large scratch being left behind on each case :(

I pulled the decapping pin from my RCBS die and found this inside (this is after a polish with the dremel!) :

Image

Has anyone come across this before? I don't recall putting anything in this die other than .223 cartridges, and the die is less than a month old... Looks like I'll have to order a new set, I think I'll stick with Lee this time :/

Strange.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Bills Shed » 24 Apr 2014, 5:41 am

Good pic,

Was the scratch there from new? Did you clean the die when new, straight from the factory?

It is an axial / linear mark so I would say that it is not a machine mark from the factory. The die is spun up in a lathe and all machining is done in a rotary motion. You can see the fine machine marks in the pic.

At a guess I would say that you had a dirty case go into the die or a bit do swarf from the maching was left inside from the machining process. Pushing the case into the die is a linear motion and so you get a linear scratch. The dies are not that hard.

If you can not polish it out, and it is leaving a mark in the brass that is not acceptable to you; you may have to get a new die.

If the mark on the brass is just cosmetic, no worries and continue on.

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Re: Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 24 Apr 2014, 6:56 am

Unfortunately I couldn't say that I inspected the die before use. I simply set it up and without a second thought. But I highly doubt it was a manufacture fault.

I think it's best bet to say I've managed to get some dirty brass up there and scratched it somehow.

After a couple of resizes brass builds up in the cavity and starts scratching cases again. I'll be heading to my LGS this morning and getting a new set.

Just a heads up for everyone though, inspect your dies before use :)

This brings another question to mind though; Isn't this sort of thing likely to happen for people who resize and decap before tumble cleaning?

I'm pretty new to reloading, and I've been tumble cleaning before resizing. This leaves the primer in the case and doesn't clean the primer pocket of course.

But I was trying to avoid this sort of thing from occurring.

I might try the other way round and see how I go.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Baldrick314 » 24 Apr 2014, 7:19 am

I still tumble before resizing.

The important thing to remember is give the necks a quick brush out with shellite or something similar before resizing. That should ensure no crap gets into your dies.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Apollo » 24 Apr 2014, 10:21 am

Most new reloading dies are like new firearms and should be coated with some form of corrosion protection at the factory, like grease / wax. This should always be cleaned out like you would clean the bore of your new firearm. Your die may have picked up some grit somewhere along the line or from a dirty cartridge case. You should also give the internals a wipe with your favourite gun oil after use to protect against corrosion.

I keep my cartridge cases clean but if for some reason they collect some dust I give them a wipe before any sizing. Any that I am given or do for a friend that have become dirty / tarnished I will tumble for a short period enough to clean the surface then wipe before using a resizing die. Then I do my resizing, depriming etc.

I use Shellite here as a general solvent to remove sizing wax / oil from both the inside of case necks and the outside body. I also use Shellite on a cleaning patch to neutralise solvents used in the bore, clean my brushes, jags etc.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Warrigul » 24 Apr 2014, 12:17 pm

I have had a few scratched dies but none in my LEE dies and not sure why, the scratch itself is not normally too much of an issue, usually it is the material dragged up into a point or the original abrasive particle being stuck in the die that causes scratch marks on the case.

IF you know what a small triangular scraper is then a light scrape with one usually will let you know where the raised part is and it is a simple matter to scrape it flush.

Be careful about polishing out the scratch with emery etc. It doesn't need to look perfect only not scratch the case. For general cleaning fine steel wool on a wood former does the trick just be sure to clean it all out.

Avoid solvents in dies if possible, air and light oil are far safer.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 24 Apr 2014, 1:21 pm

Great thanks for the tips!
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Spooner » 24 Apr 2014, 4:21 pm

Bills Shed wrote:If you can not polish it out, and it is leaving a mark in the brass that is not acceptable to you; you may have to get a new die.

If the mark on the brass is just cosmetic, no worries and continue on.


I'd try polishing it out first for sure.

If you can just take the sharp edge off it will still size brass effectively. Save yourself a few $ potentially.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by yoshie » 24 Apr 2014, 9:58 pm

Carbon is as hard as diamonds and a lot harder than tool steel. I'd say you had a bit of carbon left on a case that didn't come off in the tumbler.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Carter » 26 Apr 2014, 8:17 pm

How did you go von_klitzing?

Manage to polish it out? Salvage the die?
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 26 Apr 2014, 8:58 pm

Not yet, I'll be taking it to work on Monday (I've just had a week off) and giving it a polish. My scrapers are all there in my toolbox so I'll give that a go like Chronos mentioned.

Will post the results later on the week :)

I also have a new 20lb melting pot and PID controller to set up, as well as a couple of .44 molds too for lead melting, I'm itching to get into it :) can't wait to get back to work :lol:
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Carter » 26 Apr 2014, 9:45 pm

Yeah cool. Post back if you would :)

I'd like to know how you go with fixing it.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 28 Apr 2014, 10:16 am

I managed to clean this die up with the scraper, but I don't have a torch on me (but on my phone) so I'll post a pic tonight and test it out on some brass :)
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Carter » 28 Apr 2014, 11:17 am

Good work :D
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Spooner » 28 Apr 2014, 11:17 am

There you go.

Saved yourself a few bucks to spend on ammo instead. Woo.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Hugo » 28 Apr 2014, 5:47 pm

I had a similar thing happen to a set of lee dies for my 30/30 but instead it was a nasty chip half way up the bore of the dye caused by the case leaning slightly when full length sizing, nothing I could do but drill it out which only made it worse with a lathe, hence I dislocated my knee kicking my own butt

I bought Redding dies & haven't looked back, or at lee dies again. Not that they are bad just my personal preference.

I hope things work out for you mate.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Warrigul » 28 Apr 2014, 10:15 pm

Hugo wrote:I had a similar thing happen to a set of lee dyes for my 30/30 but instead it was a nasty chip half way up the bore of the dye caused by the case leaning slightly when full length sizing, nothing I could do but drill it out which only made it worse with a lathe


Was that one of the early Chrome C-H dies?

Awesome to use unless the chrome plating chipped or suffered a rust spot.

I had a mate make a .303/22 FLS dies for me and chrome it and it was the ducks guts.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Hugo » 28 Apr 2014, 11:02 pm

Warrigul mate it wasnt its a turned steel model that you can buy just about anywhere in the red case, glad I went for the redding though, made learning how to that little more enjoyable, just having confidence in knowing they were set & locked off,
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Warrigul » 29 Apr 2014, 8:57 am

Hugo wrote:Warrigul mate it wasnt its a turned steel model that you can buy just about anywhere in the red case, glad I went for the redding though, made learning how to that little more enjoyable, just having confidence in knowing they were set & locked off,


Sorry, just read the post properly and saw they were LEE dies.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by jeebo » 29 Apr 2014, 2:35 pm

Warrigul wrote:I had a mate make a .303/22 FLS dies for me and chrome it and it was the ducks guts.


What's the point of the chrome?

Makes it slippery for the brass does it?
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 29 Apr 2014, 10:03 pm

jeebo wrote:
Warrigul wrote:I had a mate make a .303/22 FLS dies for me and chrome it and it was the ducks guts.


What's the point of the chrome?

Makes it slippery for the brass does it?


From Wiki:
Hard chrome, also known as industrial chrome or engineered chrome, is used to reduce friction, improve durability through abrasion tolerance and wear resistance in general, minimize galling or seizing of parts, expand chemical inertness to include a broader set of conditions (especially oxidation resistance, arguably its most famous quality), and bulking material for worn parts to restore their original dimensions
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by von_klitzing » 29 Apr 2014, 10:10 pm

Here's the result of using a scraper on my die, before and after. I also have a pic of the cartridges. I think it needs a little more work, it's pretty difficult to see what's going on in there once the scraper is in position, it's all down to feel. I'm also very aware of removing any steel from the seating face. Slow she goes.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by jeebo » 01 May 2014, 7:34 pm

Cheers for the explanation Von.
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Rakk » 01 May 2014, 7:35 pm

Looking much better :D
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Re: Scratched Die

Post by Carter » 01 May 2014, 7:37 pm

Yeah nice work.

Better that wasting money on a new set of dies hey ;)
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