Loading 270 Winchester with AR2206

[GSD Tyson]

Hi guys, l'm new to this forum and it looks fabulous. I have been working with firearms for years. I am a toolmaker/machinist and have made all my own reloading gear that works extremely well and extremely safely.
What l need to know is AR2206 powder suitable for my Winchester M70 chambered for W270?
What weight projectiles would be suitable for this powder?
I bought the powder a few years ago and have yet to use it. My mate picked it up for me from Brisbane and he was given AR2206 to load my W270 ammo.
Many thanks for for help. If you guys are interested, l can try and post some photos of the equipment l have made. I made a priming press that's specifically for priming, l don't prime with the main press.

[Oldbloke]

I'm surprised. Not listed in the ADI data. So not recommended. Can you swap it for AR2208?

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/data-rifle/

[bladeracer]

Hi guys, l'm new to this forum and it looks fabulous. I have been working with firearms for years. I am a toolmaker/machinist and have made all my own reloading gear that works extremely well and extremely safely.
What l need to know is AR2206 powder suitable for my Winchester M70 chambered for W270?
What weight projectiles would be suitable for this powder?
I bought the powder a few years ago and have yet to use it. My mate picked it up for me from Brisbane and he was given AR2206 to load my W270 ammo.
Many thanks for for help. If you guys are interested, l can try and post some photos of the equipment l have made. I made a priming press that's specifically for priming, l don't prime with the main press.

AR2206 is an old discontinued powder so won't be listed in any current data.
I believe you can generally use AR2206H data though. See five lines up from bottom of the FAQ.
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/faq/

Data is listed online for 90gn to 140gn bullets in the .270Win for AR2206H.
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/data-rifle/270-winchester
I think the commonest bullet weight in the .270 is 130gn.

[Blr243]

Sell the powder if it’s legal to do so.....then there’s 2206h. 2208. 2209. With 90 grainers the 270 is a very flat shooting screamer with bugger all kick to worry about

[No1Mk3]

Do not use 2206H data directly as the burn rate for 2206H is slower than 2206, being between 2206 and 2208. Reduce 2206H data by 10% and work up as per usual, it was the recommended powder in it's day when the listing for 270Win was 90g projectile 48g Max to 170g projectile 40.0g Max. What projie do you intend to use? Cheers.

[No1_49er]

It's an old notification from ADI, but it has some relevance.
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/2007/07 ... es-ar2206/

[Oldbloke]

I ran some numbers in Gordons reloading for you to give you some idea's. No1 49 is close to the mark.

These are getting close to max. So start about 7 or 10% lower to be safe.

22" barrel 130gr Hornady SP 2730 AR2219 45gr 2753fps

AR2206H sits in the middle ...more or less.

22" barrel 130gr Hornady SP 27300 AR2206H 48gr 2850fps

NOTE; Is only a software program so no guarantees

NOTE; AMENDED DUE TO DATA ERROR

ADI Equivalents.JPG (134.84 KiB) Viewed 3369 times

270 130gr 48gr 2206H.JPG (176.08 KiB) Viewed 3247 times

270 130gr 45gr 2219.JPG (178.67 KiB) Viewed 3247 times

[in2anity]

45gr.png (71.98 KiB) Viewed 3360 times

46gr.png (72.4 KiB) Viewed 3360 times

48gr.png (96.04 KiB) Viewed 3360 times

[No1Mk3]

Again in2anitys post shows the conservative attitude (required by lawyers no doubt) of publishers and component makers, his 130g projie 1st load shows 45g of 2206 to be a safe load where the ADI book shows 44g as a Max load for that weight. Some of those corporate lawyers would have kittens if they knew what some fullbore shooters were loading!

[Oldbloke]

Insanity2,
GR didn't have ar2206 in the dbase. Never the less, an interesting comparison.

[in2anity]

Some of those corporate lawyers would have kittens if they knew what some fullbore shooters were loading!

indeed I'm appreciative of my barnard and m17 when I'm shooting fullbore - just gives you that added safety margin. But on the service rifle side I'm loading weird and wonderfully - for example a small ring mauser with 168grainers - something that many of the crusty old fellas say is a death wish. What they don't understand is that the correct volume of a fast burning powder at a informed reduced level is quite safe, provided you have crunched your numbers with confidence. You just need to be sure that your weird reloading procedure prohibits any double/excessive charge. A slight air gap for me is convinient because you can "shake" the cartridge next to your ear and listen (identifying a squib or a double, and getting a "feel" for how much each each cartridge should rattle). For this reason I don't like compressed loads. On top of that I secondarily weigh all my weird completed reduced charge loads on a different set of scales, to ensure they are where they should be - this hinges on having pre-sorted brass weights, which ties into running high quality handloader's brass from the get go.

[straightshooter]

I would be wary of urging anybody to experiment with loads potentially exceeding 40000 CUP or 50000 PSI in a small ring Mauser especially one of older manufacture.
A prime example would be standard 7.62 Nato in say a Swedish Mauser.
Why?
Older small ring Mausers can have less advanced metallurgy but the most important contributing factor is just how thin some parts of the receiver ring are.
For example the small ring has a receiver thickness of about 2.5mm for about 2/3 of it's diameter over the locking lug cavity. Compare that with a large ring which has a thickness of about 4mm making it about 60% stronger.
Some European miltaries experienced failures with small rings and this is why most European militaries using Mausers standardised on the large ring.
Things can get even worse if a stress raiser such as a scope mount screw hole is introduced.

[in2anity]

I would be wary of urging anybody to experiment with loads potentially exceeding 40000 CUP or 50000 PSI in a small ring Mauser

100% agree with you SS - which is why my loads are kept to sub 40kpsi in the small ring. Still can be achieved with a heavier pill, with a reduced charge of 06H, and the aid of a ballistics tool such quickload. That's my point.

[No1_49er]

Just to add to the discussion regarding the strength, or otherwise, of small-ring Mauser receivers, here's a bit of info' on the Swedish version and its proof load test. I wish I had noted the forum from which this scan came, but I note that it was saved to my PC back in 2012.
Note that there is quite some difference between the CIP and SAAMI MAP's.

[Oldbloke]

But GDS is using a M70 Winchester.

[No1_49er]

Not disagreeing with you OB.
Just pointing out that the Swede is a bit stronger than it is usually given credit for.
The Win M70 should be a whole lot stronger, but we seem to like to comply with SAAMI specs, in deference to the lawyers.
Note too, that a number of more recent loading data manuals give separate loads for military Swedes and for "modern" actions.

[Oldbloke]

Not disagreeing with you OB.
Just pointing out that the Swede is a bit stronger than it is usually given credit for.
The Win M70 should be a whole lot stronger, but we seem to like to comply with SAAMI specs, in deference to the lawyers.
Note too, that a number of more recent loading data manuals give separate loads for military Swedes and for "modern" actions.

Hi No1,

I guess I'm missing something?

I didn't see the point of mentioning it. Because is using an M70.

[No1_49er]

See the post, above, by straightshooter.

[MtnMan]

I have a mild load for youth use out of mine. 110gr Sierra prohunter bullet, can't remember the charge weight of AR2206H that I use so I won't state a guess. Shoots around 2550fps. Can look up the load if your interested.

Full power load is 130gr Hornady interlock and 55gr of AR2209.

I use AR2206H in my .222rem now that Win748 is no longer imported.

Very versatile powder. very useful for reduced loads of up to 60% of stated max charges listed on the ADI reloading data.

[MtnMan]

That youth load I mentioned with the 110gr Sierra prohunter is 39grs of AR2206H. Average 2530fps

[2 Clicks Up]

I’m loading 2206-H in my 270 pushing 130 grain soft points and 100 grain hollow points. Whilst I haven’t used either in a hunting situation, the paper accuracy of both suggests good things await. I was using 2209 pushing 130’s, and that worked really well. The 2206-H makes less “BOOM” and less recoil, all with a smaller powder charge, so it costs less money. And, with less recoil, the 2206-H makes the 270 a lot more pleasant to shoot.

[MtnMan]

must be getting lower velocity to account for the lower recoil. you can't have the same or more velocity without the same or more recoil.
recoil is a function of bullet weight, it's velocity and gun weight. the powder simply determines the velocity.

[in2anity]

must be getting lower velocity to account for the lower recoil. you can't have the same or more velocity without the same or more recoil.
recoil is a function of bullet weight, it's velocity and gun weight. the powder simply determines the velocity.

Actual recoil and felt/perceived/kick are different. Actual is a math equation, whereas a faster powder in smaller amount of weight, in same casing, producing same velocity of projectile of same weight, will produce less felt recoil. Slower burning powders that feel like they recoil more have a longer recoil impulse and are thus more perceivable.

It's a well known phenomena among target shooters that say AR2206H doesn't "hurt" as much as say AR2209, with the production of same velocities using the same case/projectile. Nevertheless, beyond (felt) recoil, slower powders are more favorable because they yield better case fill and thus more consistent muzzle velocities, not to mention are inherently safer to reload. It's all tradeoffs. Do some real time with different powders and you will feel for yourself.

My real world example; I consciously run AR2206H under 174gr SMKs out of the SMLE No4 (to save my shoulder during service matches - yes I have tried AR2209 and the damned thing flogs me if i'm just wearing a light Tshirt). Yet using AR2208 in my boat anchor palma rifle under a 155gr SMK is an absolute no-brainer; the weight of the rifle completely nullifies any felt recoil. Horses for courses.

[MtnMan]

Interesting stuff. So what is the general load densities of AR2209 vs AR2206H for the same velocity?

[in2anity]

Interesting stuff. So what is the general load densities of AR2209 vs AR2206H for the same velocity?

I'd need to crunch it in quickload, but at a guess in the brit, 100% of 09 is probs around 2475fps (give or take). Equivalent velocity will be at a guess 85% fill of 06H. I find the 06H load much more pleasant to shoot. The catch is, anymore than 85% fill of 06H in the 303 is getting dangerous - so it's all tradeoffs - your loads need to be quite literally error-less.

[bladeracer]

must be getting lower velocity to account for the lower recoil. you can't have the same or more velocity without the same or more recoil.
recoil is a function of bullet weight, it's velocity and gun weight. the powder simply determines the velocity.

The powder charge also gets added to the bullet weight when calculating recoil, a less-dense powder making the same velocity with a larger charge will have more calculated recoil. A 130gn bullet making 2850fps on 60gn of AR2217 (190gn projectile mass) will have more calculated recoil than a 130gn bullet making 2850fps on 44gn of BM8208 (174gn projectile mass).