load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

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load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 09 May 2022, 9:15 am

g'day there....hoops here...i'm new to handloading thanks to my wife.... :)
my first hand load data request......
would i be right to go to the range with this ....

6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77 rugar long range rifle...
case: hornady
prim: cci 200
powder: ar 2208
projectile: hornady 6.5 mm 140gr eld.match G1 BC .646
case length: 1.920...... trimed to : 1.910
loads are: 34.0 gr , 34.5 gr , 35.0 gr , 35.5 gr .
MIN: 34 gr mv 2500 ....MAX: 36 gr mv 2620
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by No1Mk3 » 10 May 2022, 6:14 pm

G'day fxdwg28,
All those I know shooting 6.5 Creedmore maintain that slower powders work best in that caliber for heavier bullets, no one uses 2208 with 140g, with 2209 being as slow as they go. Your loads look quite OK for a bit of range testing and fun, The only bloke I know with a Ruger Hawkeye, a 26" barrel, is loading 44.0g of 2209 with the Hornady 140g ELD for around 2800 fps, perhaps change powders and start at 39.5 then step up by 0.5 increments towards 42.5 and see how you go. The slower powder will give better velocity with less pressure, Cheers.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 10 May 2022, 6:23 pm

good on ya mate ...tar i'll give that a try...thanks for your input info...

have a good 1 ...No1Mk3
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 10 May 2022, 6:25 pm

i can't get h4350....2209 i have as well as 2208

thanks ...No1Mk3
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by bladeracer » 10 May 2022, 8:11 pm

fxdwg28 wrote:g'day there....hoops here...i'm new to handloading thanks to my wife.... :)
my first hand load data request......
would i be right to go to the range with this ....

6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77 rugar long range rifle...
case: hornady
prim: cci 200
powder: ar 2208
projectile: hornady 6.5 mm 140gr eld.match G1 BC .646
case length: 1.920...... trimed to : 1.910
loads are: 34.0 gr , 34.5 gr , 35.0 gr , 35.5 gr .
MIN: 34 gr mv 2500 ....MAX: 36 gr mv 2620


Loads look fine, assuming you are loading to 2.800" or longer, while not jamming into the lands.
Seating depth affects pressure, seating shorter increases pressure, seating longer decreases pressure - until you jam the bullet into the lands which will cause a pressure spike.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by bladeracer » 10 May 2022, 8:14 pm

fxdwg28 wrote:i can't get h4350....2209 i have as well as 2208

thanks ...No1Mk3
hoops


AR2209 is sold in the US as H4350.
AR2208 is Varget in the US.
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/faq/
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 11 May 2022, 12:06 am

good on ya ..... bladeracer .....i'll make a check on my lengths

thanks for the info mate...
hoops
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 11 May 2022, 12:18 am

my lengths are.... 2.818" to 2.820"
all 4x loads of 5 are .... 2.818" to 2.820"
i hope that this is still fine ? and thanks for the link mate.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by JimTom » 11 May 2022, 6:50 am

I have used faster powders (2206h) for 90gn projectiles in my Creedmoor mate, however as people have already eluded to, it seems to like 2209 with the heavier projectiles.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 19 May 2022, 5:44 am

thanks ....Jim Tom...
just got back from fly in fly out job.....

hope to test loads this week end.....
thanks a gain ...mate
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jun 2022, 4:39 pm

You can probably get it to shoot great groups with 2208 but you are leaving slot of speed on the table. If you are not concerned and 2208 is all you have, fair enough.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 7:09 pm

tar but what do you mean by this....??


You can probably get it to shoot great groups with 2208 but you are leaving slot of speed on the table. If you are not concerned and 2208 is all you have, fair enough.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 7:10 pm

tar but what do you mean by this....??


You can probably get it to shoot great groups with 2208 but you are leaving slot of speed on the table. If you are not concerned and 2208 is all you have, fair enough.

i do have 2209
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jun 2022, 7:23 pm

fxdwg28 wrote:tar but what do you mean by this....??


You can probably get it to shoot great groups with 2208 but you are leaving slot of speed on the table. If you are not concerned and 2208 is all you have, fair enough.

i do have 2209


If you are interested in velocity he is suggesting you might get a little more out of a different powder, if accuracy is your concern I wouldn't be too concerned with chasing velocity. AR2209 _might_ make you another 100fps or so, not enough to worry about unless you're shooting long-range competition perhaps.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:15 pm

Thanks Blade, exactly right. The aim is to completely fill the case with the slowest powder that gets you to your velocity goal. No point half filling the case with 2207 and finding the void in your case is causing velocity deviation. Full cases are very consistent. I am betting that say your rifle can shoot in the .2s then 2208 can get you there.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:26 pm

thanks for the info from you both....
im proberly chasing my tail ...but im trying to find the right grouping with what i got ...

all info im getting im taking it on board ...tar hoops
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:29 pm

If I was loading a 6.5mm CM with 140 grain bullets I would use 2209 or even 2213 short cut. Seat the bullet out as far as you can, effectively makes the case bigger. Hornady ELDM are a bit of a finicky bullet, I have to batch them for ogive length to get the best out of them. I also found that using Magnum primers lowered the ES of a load for a friend's CM. He wanted to use Nosler 130 Ballistic tips. I hope this helps, good luck with your CM, it is a pretty cool case.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:31 pm

Forgot to say I am using small rifle primers in my friend's CM.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:33 pm

large here cci200
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:33 pm

large here cci200
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:36 pm

If I was loading a 6.5mm CM with 140 grain bullets I would use 2209 or even 2213 short cut. Seat the bullet out as far as you can, effectively makes the case bigger. Hornady ELDM are a bit of a finicky bullet, I have to batch them for ogive length to get the best out of them. I also found that using Magnum primers lowered the ES of a load for a friend's CM. He wanted to use Nosler 130 Ballistic tips. I hope this helps, good luck with your CM, it is a pretty cool case.

thanks mate for your info......all taken inn...
tar hoops
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:38 pm

so you would be single loading rnd's..... not mag loading ?
?? hoops??
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 05 Jun 2022, 9:46 pm

i was thinking .....loads of 5x4 to get a group start ?

maybe i try 140gr speer spitzer sp...
cci 200 large...
hornady case...
powder 2209...
6.5 cm .... 46" bar..
hoops ?

but still as coments goes.... ... i have the ellimanator 111 as my scope
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jun 2022, 7:37 pm

If you load to fit your mag, then you will be restricted by the length that fits inside that. If you single load, you can set them long until you jam the ogive into the lands. This gives you more space to cram powder into the case. I like things going as fast as I can make them go and find a node near that. I like to keep adding powder until I see pressure signs. You may be a little more cautious.
I also had some 130 grain Sierra Game Kings laying around. I loaded them up so my friend could run his barrel in. His best group with no load development and while running it in was 0.4 of an inch. They work really well on goats and fallow deer.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 06 Jun 2022, 7:51 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
If you load to fit your mag, then you will be restricted by the length that fits inside that. If you single load, you can set them long until you jam the ogive into the lands. This gives you more space to cram powder into the case. I like things going as fast as I can make them go and find a node near that. I like to keep adding powder until I see pressure signs. You may be a little more cautious.
I also had some 130 grain Sierra Game Kings laying around. I loaded them up so my friend could run his barrel in. His best group with no load development and while running it in was 0.4 of an inch. They work really well on goats and fallow deer.


would then the cass is to be taken into acount of thinkness at the web ? head....

im thinking of hornady and fed shells ? .....speer if any

good info tar .....SCJ429
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by bladeracer » 06 Jun 2022, 7:56 pm

fxdwg28 wrote:so you would be single loading rnd's..... not mag loading ?
?? hoops??


Some rifles have throats long enough that they will let you seat some bullets (particularly VLD/ELD designs) so long that you can exceed magazine length but have to single-load them. Some rifles have magazine wells that will let you make cartridges significantly longer than standard lengths, but don't always have enough throat length in the chamber to be able to use it. I think most rifles are designed with throats that fit most bullets while still staying around magazine length.

If you can seat the bullet as long as possible you get the maximum combustion chamber volume, thus can fit the most fuel into the cartridge. Pressure is dependant on the volume of the chamber holding the pressure. Make the chamber larger and you get less pressure, but you can burn more fuel.
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 06 Jun 2022, 8:04 pm

yes indeed it would.....i think the mag for lifting the nose up in the mag to the bore is out there some where ....?
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 06 Jun 2022, 8:28 pm

bladeracer wrote:
fxdwg28 wrote:so you would be single loading rnd's..... not mag loading ?
?? hoops??


Some rifles have magazine wells that will let you make cartridges significantly longer than standard lengths, but don't always have enough throat length in the chamber to be able to use it. I think most rifles are designed with throats that fit most bullets while still staying around magazine length.

If you can seat the bullet as long as possible you get the maximum combustion chamber volume, thus can fit the most fuel into the cartridge. Pressure is dependant on the volume of the chamber holding the pressure. Make the chamber larger and you get less pressure, but you can burn more fuel.[/quot


i think?

can i have shallower lands.....to gain more .bore pressure ....and drive?..
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by bladeracer » 06 Jun 2022, 8:59 pm

fxdwg28 wrote:i think?

can i have shallower lands.....to gain more .bore pressure ....and drive?..


Hmmm...not really as there is a finite limit on how much pressure your brass and your rifle can handle, both short-term and long-term.

You can seat the bullet deep into the case, but it takes up volume which means you have less powder.
I don't worry about the lands if I don't have to, just load the cartridge as long as I can without jamming into the lands (measure the CoAL to the lands then round it to a convenient number about .010-020" less), or having to single-load, and play with the powder charge to find the most accurate. If it's really not shooting well it might indicate a bullet that is "jump fussy", which gets annoying. I would prefer to switch to a better bullet in that case, but you can play with the seating depth and see if it improves.

I have zero interest in even loading to factory pressures in any of my rifles, seating the bullets long lets me get to factory velocities with lower pressures (with less wear on my brass and my rifle), or get higher-than-factory velocities without reaching pressure signs.

You mentioned at the start that you are working on a load for your "long range rifle" - what ranges are you looking at shooting - 500m, 1000m, 2000m, more?
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Re: load data request - 6.5 creedmoor hawkie m77

Post by fxdwg28 » 06 Jun 2022, 9:08 pm

yes im hitting 500.....sitting at 400..by 1/2 inch poa to poi

hopeing to charge a load to give me group size for 500 yds.....lol ....then out wards....hmmm to my scope view that will only give me ... 1000 yds


?? may be a 10-40 x56 argos gen2....to keep an eye on my poi would be better....
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