Pistol Powders

[Billo]

The simple answer is the French Govt/thales dont give a crap about Aussies shooters and this would simply be a commercial decision. We are the pimple on the global pistol shooting butt.

As to an attack on Pistol shooting, that's just an easy assumption too make but without foundation.

NIOA control most of the market and have the ability to import Pistol powders but makes a bunch more $$$ selling Loaded ammo, its all about PROFIT.

I agree, it's purely a financial issue. They spent a heap replacing the line, then they lost a heap on top of that when they tossed all of the powder they'd produced on it due to poor quality. I don't imagine any business venture deciding to invest millions of dollars into our tiny market just for the goodwill of a relative handful of shooters. If they can't see recouping the outlay relatively quickly and then turning profits within a year or two why would anybody bother?

Are you sure NOA can import powders? There are shortages right across the world that I can see. I'm quite sure they legally can but if they can't get the powder how do they import it?

NIOA import Alliant reloader powders, I'm using 1 of there Pistol powders

[bladeracer]

The simple answer is the French Govt/thales dont give a crap about Aussies shooters and this would simply be a commercial decision. We are the pimple on the global pistol shooting butt.

As to an attack on Pistol shooting, that's just an easy assumption too make but without foundation.

NIOA control most of the market and have the ability to import Pistol powders but makes a bunch more $$$ selling Loaded ammo, its all about PROFIT.

I agree, it's purely a financial issue. They spent a heap replacing the line, then they lost a heap on top of that when they tossed all of the powder they'd produced on it due to poor quality. I don't imagine any business venture deciding to invest millions of dollars into our tiny market just for the goodwill of a relative handful of shooters. If they can't see recouping the outlay relatively quickly and then turning profits within a year or two why would anybody bother?

Are you sure NOA can import powders? There are shortages right across the world that I can see. I'm quite sure they legally can but if they can't get the powder how do they import it?

NIOA import Alliant reloader powders, I'm using 1 of there Pistol powders

Then it would seem obvious that they're bringing in all they can get, if they could get more I'm sure they would.

[mickb]

hard to see why NOIA or one of the majors cant start agencies with Lovex and Vectan tomorrow if they wanted, or Vihtavuori, which they used to. Far smaller concerns did and got powders in here last year. Bronzewing even has another shipment on the way now.

Also any news on primers?

[mickb]

was talking to Bronzewing's managers about the expressions of interest from gunstores before their last shipment of vectan landed. They could have sold the shipment 30x over.

Other Euro powder makers selling serious tonnage internationally are Lovex, Vihtavuori, RC Swiss, Norma, RWS and Ramshot.

[bladeracer]

was talking to Bronzewing's managers about the expressions of interest from gunstores before their last shipment of vectan landed. They could have sold the shipment 30x over.

Other Euro powder makers selling serious tonnage internationally are Lovex, Vihtavuori, RC Swiss, Norma, RWS and Ramshot.

So the problem is that they can't get more than they're already getting?

[mickb]

was talking to Bronzewing's managers about the expressions of interest from gunstores before their last shipment of vectan landed. They could have sold the shipment 30x over.

Other Euro powder makers selling serious tonnage internationally are Lovex, Vihtavuori, RC Swiss, Norma, RWS and Ramshot.

So the problem is that they can't get more than they're already getting?

Id say they are too small mate , lack of capital and risk averse to a shipment failing. $250,000 on the water is a peanuts cash transfer to a Noia. To a smaller business on credit, it could be do or die. The major players can order larger, better discounts, more resilience to delays and spread transport costs across bulk units sold.

I heard the second order is larger than the first now they know they can get it. Funnily enough their prices were still reasonable, they refused to gouge people. I think my small 4 can alottment( which I never picked up having relocated and almost impossible to ship from Vic) was around $80 per half KG.

[mickb]

Worth noting two factors which hampered the result for bronzewing. Their distribution centre is in victoria and as it turned out was pretty much impossible to move their product interstate. A lot of major carriers wont ship interstate anymore at a cost useful to individuals.

People were planning trips to Vic to pick up their own powder allottments and Im talking some small gunstores too. But NSW now has a 5kg only personal powder movement limit.so no go if you have more than that and live in NSW or need to move it through NSW.

[Jackaroo]

Another update today from ADI, fingers crossed we may one day see TB and APS powders again -

tyterw.JPG (61.29 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

[bladeracer]

Another update today from ADI, fingers crossed we may one day see TB and APS powders again -

tyterw.JPG

It's great news but I do wish they'd update us with an official statement. My concern is that if they do produce a new Trailboss that it may not be as versatile as the old stuff, but I can't wait to try whatever they do come up with.

[Oldbloke]

The way I see it, it's priorities. So they concentrate on making what they can to make a profits.

We come last after the military etc blah blah blah.

But someone (fed government?) spent a lot of money on a new production line that is currently producing SFA. So, eventually they need to make it work. And im guessing modifying the line will be part of that. We, just need to be patient.

[mickb]

I reckon some of you blokes need to invoice ADI , Noia etc for all the free P.R you put in for them

No pistol powders for years stinks, period. No Ar2205 is unforgiveable and still the largest elephant in the room since its not even a pistol powder. :

Never hear a good explanation for thar one either since its production equipment never changed and it would have the entire market to itself.

[on_one_wheel]

A 2022 article but it's mist likely still revelant

"There are many conspiracy theories about ammunition shortages, but what's really happening?"

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/a ... ing/458804

[mickb]

Mate if the article is during or just post covid, its not relevant.

The supply lines have opened up again, Euro powder makers are chasing buyers, major shipments of Vectan, Vihta, Lovex, Swiss and Ramshot are moving for well over a year. Small companies are even bringing some into Australia, but large companies arent trying.....

And 2205 avoided again for about the 4th time on this thread....just sayin....

[Blr243]

Scored a bottle of 2205 today so I’m a little pleased with myself

[Blr243]

And scored a new place to hunt as well this arv so I’m ona roll

[mickb]

Scored a bottle of 2205 today so I’m a little pleased with myself

mate video its habits and activities of daily living before you use it up. its one of the last one in captivity Id say. Like the old footage of the last Tasmanian tiger, we want our kids to know what native 2205 looked like

[mickb]

on a serious note, I see usedguns has a QLD business selling Vihta magnum pistol powders again. Expensive but good powder if anyone is desperate,

[Blr243]

I agree mick. I can use it in 357 and 300 blk but I’m in no rush I will try to use it only when no other powder will suffice

[Jackaroo]

on a serious note, I see usedguns has a QLD business selling Vihta magnum pistol powders again. Expensive but good powder if anyone is desperate,

Mate of mine just got 4kg of N110 and 4kg of N340 and he's a happy chappy.

[on_one_wheel]

Mate if the article is during or just post covid, its not relevant.

The supply lines have opened up again, Euro powder makers are chasing buyers, major shipments of Vectan, Vihta, Lovex, Swiss and Ramshot are moving for well over a year. Small companies are even bringing some into Australia, but large companies arent trying.....

And 2205 avoided again for about the 4th time on this thread....just sayin....

You've done a fine job of telling me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article

Its much the same in 2024, Demand is higher than ever, (even more so than 2022) wars are intensifying and now two US manufacting plants have gone up in smoke.

Obviously you've got something to say about 2205 ... tell us about it rather than getting your panties in a twist over it.

[Oldbloke]

Mate if the article is during or just post covid, its not relevant.

The supply lines have opened up again, Euro powder makers are chasing buyers, major shipments of Vectan, Vihta, Lovex, Swiss and Ramshot are moving for well over a year. Small companies are even bringing some into Australia, but large companies arent trying.....

And 2205 avoided again for about the 4th time on this thread....just sayin....

You've done a fine job of telling me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article

Its much the same in 2024, Demand is higher than ever, (even more so than 2022) wars are intensifying and now two US manufacting plants have gone up in smoke.


Obviously you've got something to say about 2205 ... tell us about it rather than getting your panties in a twist over it.

You mean one??
Which two??

[on_one_wheel]

You mean one??
Which two??

Illinois .. Winchester
https://apnews.com/article/illinois-amm ... e8bd51858d

Nebraska. ... Hornady
https://www.klkntv.com/state-fire-marsh ... ccidental/

[Oldbloke]

You mean one??
Which two??

Illinois .. Winchester
https://apnews.com/article/illinois-amm ... e8bd51858d

Nebraska. ... Hornady
https://www.klkntv.com/state-fire-marsh ... ccidental/

OK. Knew about the hornady one, but not winchester.

Cutting safety corners to maximise productivity I guess.

Both related to primers. The honady explosion would have destroyed the production line too.

[mickb]

You've done a fine job of telling me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article Its much the same in 2024, Demand is higher than ever, (even more so than 2022) wars are intensifying and now two US manufacting plants have gone up in smoke.

Mate working in international logistics i try and stay abreast of a range of 'current' supply and demand reports for clients as a matter of course. Not all sectors are good no, but Euro powder supply is healthy for several makers looking for agency.

Smaller concerns are regularly bringing in as much as they can afford for example.Boggles my mind why these facts need to be countered with some sort of knee jerk anti-conspiracy defence. If a major wanted powder, they would eclipse noosa shooters, tiger bullets, bronze wing and the others and have it here yesterday.

Obviously you've got something to say about 2205 .. .

Well no one else does mate, you nicely avoided it again.

Hang on maybe it was explained in the article? Or the war in Ukraine is using up powder for all the 22 hornets and 44mags they shoot at russian tanks :l

[bladeracer]

Boggles my mind why these facts need to be countered with some sort of knee jerk anti-conspiracy defence. If a major wanted powder, they would eclipse noosa shooters, tiger bullets, bronze wing and the others and have it here yesterday.

Perhaps it's boggling your mind because of some hitch that you're unaware of? These are large businesses, if they could bring in powder shipments they surely would since they're still bringing in everything else. There must be something that is making them decide it's not viable for them, or perhaps there just isn't the availability you're assuming there is? Considering the crazy prices this stuff is now selling for it would have to be very non-viable for any serious business venture to opt out of it.

[mickb]

Boggles my mind why these facts need to be countered with some sort of knee jerk anti-conspiracy defence. If a major wanted powder, they would eclipse noosa shooters, tiger bullets, bronze wing and the others and have it here yesterday.

Perhaps it's boggling your mind because of some hitch that you're unaware of? These are large businesses, if they could bring in powder shipments they surely would since they're still bringing in everything else. There must be something that is making them decide it's not viable for them, or perhaps there just isn't the availability you're assuming there is? Considering the crazy prices this stuff is now selling for it would have to be very non-viable for any serious business venture to opt out of it.

Hi mate, the supply is there, talk to the current importers on that note. if its viable for small businesses and small shipments, its more viable for bigger ones.

I dont doubt there may be some other reasons the majors dont want to bring it in, long term strategies( charging more for loaded ammo whatever) or maybe even political pressure from the government, who knows.

And then we have 2205 again. The now captive market capable, highest margin domestic powder, in existence ,and they just wont run it.

[bladeracer]

And then we have 2205 again. The now captive market capable, highest margin domestic powder, in existence ,and they just wont run it.

I can only assume there is a good reason they can't, or won't. The email responses to myself and others suggest they are reformulating and testing AR2205 as well so I'm guessing there is a difference between it and the slower rifle powders, something that they can't do currently.

[mickb]

where is the email on 2205 mate, would like to see it

[bladeracer]

where is the email on 2205 mate, would like to see it

I can't find the ones that have been posted here (I know I took screenshots) but I found one of mine from June last year, and I've just messaged him again for an update.
The more messages they get asking about this stuff the more impetus they might have to work on it, I suggest everybody that is interested send them an email.

[mickb]

Thanks mate. I have to admit it makes no sense at all, a really ambiguous reply by them, why are they re-researching an established product. But at least they replied.

Im going to back off a little on my banging the gong about this stuff. I make no bones about my position, I believe shooters are being screwed. I recall 1996 when most government departments, the media, even private universities and some gun related businesses came together to destroy 50% of our existence. The idea that just a few groups and gun businesses can come together now to confound reloaders is really not much of a stretch. The amount of crazy bills and ideas coming across the floor every week from the police, lobbyists, major businesses would astound most gunowners if they bothered to check them.

But the site has few enough posting members that there are better places to argue hard on those subjects . Especially blokes like yourself Bladeracer, oldbloke etc who contribute a lot to the remaining gun related posts here. Back to those subjects for me.