As-50N in pistols

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 27 Jun 2022, 4:59 am

Hi Fellas, anyone ever run this for light or cast loads in pistols? Burn rate according to ADI is on par with AP450
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Pendous » 27 Jun 2022, 12:06 pm

Have used it in 38 special and 357 magnum.
My understanding, AP450 was developed to duplicate AP/AS50.
What are you wanting to load it in? Plenty of data available.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by deye243 » 27 Jun 2022, 3:23 pm

I used it in 38spl and 45acp with my own hand casted pills for 5 years never had any dramas.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Rwd22 » 27 Jun 2022, 4:28 pm

As far as I was aware, the only difference between AS50 and AP50 was the physical size of the powder, AP50 was optimised to meter better for pistol loads.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by rc42 » 27 Jun 2022, 5:26 pm

Exactly what I've heard, AP50N is the same as AS50N but the 'AP' pistol powder is cut finer to assist metering of small powder volumes whilst the 'AS' is flaked which is a pain to meter in small volumes but probably cheaper to manufacture.

It's a very fast powder so metering accuracy is very important and it is better suited to lighter projectiles

These days you're lucky to have any fast powder.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 28 Jun 2022, 8:44 pm

Pendous wrote:Have used it in 38 special and 357 magnum.
My understanding, AP450 was developed to duplicate AP/AS50.
What are you wanting to load it in? Plenty of data available.


Plenty of data for As-50N in pistols?
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 28 Jun 2022, 8:47 pm

Rwd22 wrote:As far as I was aware, the only difference between AS50 and AP50 was the physical size of the powder, AP50 was optimised to meter better for pistol loads.


Okay but worth noting ADI classes AS-50N faster than AP-50 for burn rates http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/burning-rates/
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Sarco » 28 Jun 2022, 9:46 pm

mickb wrote:
Rwd22 wrote:As far as I was aware, the only difference between AS50 and AP50 was the physical size of the powder, AP50 was optimised to meter better for pistol loads.


Okay but worth noting ADI classes AS-50N faster than AP-50 for burn rates http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/burning-rates/


ADIs chart is only figurative really. The difference is five tenths of FA.

Personally I have used AS50 and AP50 in everything from 32ACP to 45ACP and according to chrono data, the load data for both are basically interchangeable. The only real issue is as mentioned in an earlier post, the flake sizes make metering a little problematic for AS50.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 29 Jun 2022, 2:18 am

Thats good to know. Id like to try some reduced loads in 44 mag with it. ADI has load data for As-30, 350 and 450 and if they rate 450 same burn rate as the Ap/AS 50 powders and I start a bit lower than 450 charges I am assuming I will be in safe territory.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Salty » 16 Jul 2022, 11:19 am

Ive nearly emptied a small bottle of it, loading 9mm, 3.5gn with Tigershark 123gn RN and HP, no chrono on them but the Lee powder thrower does it nicely, fires clean, very happy with stuff which is good as I have a couple of kgs of it...
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by No1Mk3 » 16 Jul 2022, 12:21 pm

I've been using AP50N in 45ACP, 45AR, 45LC for some time. In ACP/AR it burns cleaner than AP70N for the loads I use which are 90% of listed Military levels The reason for variation in burn rates for AP vs AS is physical shape affecting flame front ignition, the same as squashed Ball igniting faster than conventional Ball powder.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 16 Jul 2022, 6:29 pm

Thanks just clarifying that AS is faster than AP?
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2022, 7:13 pm

Here. Sheesh. Doesn't anyone do a bit of research these days.

ADI Equivalents.JPG
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 16 Jul 2022, 10:28 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here. Sheesh. Doesn't anyone do a bit of research these days.


Do fellas read what has already been posted? Check the chart I already posted oldbloke.

Shows As-50N as faster than Ap50N. Yours shows it the other way around.... hence asking for first hand experiences or loads for pistols.
Last edited by mickb on 16 Jul 2022, 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2022, 10:34 pm

Must admit, I didn't check the link.

Interesting as what posted is out on and ADI Manual abt 8 yrs old. Strange it's changed.

Edit: if your shoulder is as bad as it sounds might better off with 223 and say... 75gr pills.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 16 Jul 2022, 10:38 pm

Wrong fella, I think that was the guy glicnn on the lever gun thread with the shoulder. My shoulders are fine, ears are buggared though :)
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2022, 10:40 pm

Yeh, ita getting late. Lol
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Larry » 16 Jul 2022, 11:11 pm

If it is the same as Unique then it is very popular for heaps of different pistol cartridges. Unique is one of the most popular powders in the US.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 17 Jul 2022, 2:49 am

Its faster than unique. Unique is actually bit slower than AP70 but they have them together to save adding a line.

That older chart of oldblokes is a bit dodgy, not sure what ADI was doing there. WST and win231's positions are the wrong way around( 231 is slower than WST). Bullseye, Red Dot and E3 are also listed in reverse order. E3 is faster than all of them.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Jul 2022, 11:19 am

mickb wrote:Its faster than unique. Unique is actually bit slower than AP70 but they have them together to save adding a line.

That older chart of oldblokes is a bit dodgy, not sure what ADI was doing there. WST and win231's positions are the wrong way around( 231 is slower than WST). Bullseye, Red Dot and E3 are also listed in reverse order. E3 is faster than all of them.


I posted it in good faith. Not sure I would call it "dodgy". Seems to me ADI have changed the burn rate slightly over the years. I have re-copied the same one (2013) to also include the year/edition at the top of the page, Also including the later 2016 ed.

I find this very interesting. I always understood they never change burn rates once they develop a product.

ADI Equivalents 2013 6th Ed.JPG
ADI Equivalents 2013 6th Ed.JPG (103.28 KiB) Viewed 2594 times



ADI Equivalents 2016 9th Ed.JPG
ADI Equivalents 2016 9th Ed.JPG (98.33 KiB) Viewed 2593 times





P.S. These pdfs are freely available on the net if you google "ADI Handloaders guide" along with 3,4,5 editions. That's how I got them.

Edit: One of the images was incorrectly named.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Jul 2022, 11:55 am

Some more.



ADI Equivalents 2010 5th Ed.JPG
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ADI Equivalents 2004 4th Ed .JPG
ADI Equivalents 2004 4th Ed .JPG (158.88 KiB) Viewed 2593 times



ADI Equivalents 2000 3rd Ed.JPG
ADI Equivalents 2000 3rd Ed.JPG (174.97 KiB) Viewed 2593 times
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 17 Jul 2022, 3:21 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
mickb wrote:Its faster than unique. Unique is actually bit slower than AP70 but they have them together to save adding a line.

That older chart of oldblokes is a bit dodgy, not sure what ADI was doing there. WST and win231's positions are the wrong way around( 231 is slower than WST). Bullseye, Red Dot and E3 are also listed in reverse order. E3 is faster than all of them.


I posted it in good faith. Not sure I would call it "dodgy". Seems to me ADI have changed the burn rate slightly over the years. I have re-copied the same one (2013) to also include the year/edition at the top of the page, Also including the later 2016 ed.

I find this very interesting. I always understood they never change burn rates once they develop a product.



Didnt mean you were dodgy mate, but the table certainly is.

It was the Alliant burn rates in the second column my last post was about. ADI bungled the spreadsheet by the looks or didnt check with Alliant data. Several are in the wrong order. Their recent tables are correct though.
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by bladeracer » 17 Jul 2022, 3:34 pm

AP70N is marketed by Hodgdon in the US as Universal.
AS50N is International.
AS30N is Clays.
The US market gets all three from GD in Canada, not from ADI in Australia as far as I'm aware.
https://hodgdon.com/resources/safety-data-sheets/
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Re: As-50N in pistols

Post by mickb » 17 Jul 2022, 6:53 pm

Thanks as well for that Blade, you just answered an old question I had been meaning to clear up for myself for years. As to what International clays is . I know Hodgon markets clays, international clays and Universal Clays and knew clays was As-30 and universal was Ap-70 but had never gotten round to checking what international( the rarest of the three) is. Lo and behold its the same as my thread title :) This helps a lot as I can google this now on US forums.
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