Ultrasonic cleaner

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Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by phill55phill » 17 Jul 2022, 10:46 am

Could u poeple tell me what liquid to put in ultrasonic cleaning machine for cleaning shells
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by JimTom » 17 Jul 2022, 10:57 am

Mate there are a few solutions you can buy, however they are relatively expensive.
I use the following:

3 parts water
1 part vinegar
Squirt of dishwashing liquid.

Mine come out squeaky clean. Just make sure you give them a good rinse at the end. There is also a few other threads on here addressing this so prob a few different recipes too.
Last edited by JimTom on 17 Jul 2022, 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Jul 2022, 10:58 am

I use an Aldi cleaner.

Amounts are approximate/not critical. Rinse well when clean. Use a bit of Bicarb too to neutralize the acid if your worried.

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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by dnedative » 23 Jul 2022, 9:37 pm

Don't use salt, I have no idea how and why it made it into recipes, its not a catalyst, its not a surfactant nor does it clean anything. When you mix a solution of it with vinegar you get a weak solution of hydrochloric acid. Back in the day it was probably the home brew copper cleaner for your kitchen pots and pans if you had nothing else on hand but for brass vinegar alone will do more.

Always used citirc acid and dish soap, sprinkle and a squirt of each. Let it run nice and hot for 25mins and they are good enough to use or process further without filling your dies with filth. Never bothered using exact quantity's or distilled water - It costs next to nothing, is mild enough it will never hurt anything and works fine.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by madang55 » 26 Jul 2022, 8:48 pm

Ultrasonic cleaner
Post by phill55phill » 17 Jul 2022, 10:46 am
Could u poeple tell me what liquid to put in ultrasonic cleaning machine for cleaning shells
.
..
The store bought stuff.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Jul 2022, 7:41 am

dnedative wrote: Don't use salt, I have no idea how and why it made it into recipes, its not a catalyst, its not a surfactant nor does it clean anything. When you mix a solution of it with vinegar you get a weak solution of hydrochloric acid. Back in the day it was probably the home brew copper cleaner for your kitchen pots and pans if you had nothing else on hand but for brass vinegar alone will do more.

Always used citirc acid and dish soap, sprinkle and a squirt of each. Let it run nice and hot for 25mins and they are good enough to use or process further without filling your dies with filth. Never bothered using exact quantity's or distilled water - It costs next to nothing, is mild enough it will never hurt anything and works fine.


Think I will test that.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by in2anity » 27 Jul 2022, 11:24 am

OB I used to use the salt, but then I substituted for citric acid. Can't see much difference TBH, in terms of case life. Now i don't clean at all AHAHA - besides a quick wipe away of the redding wax that was used to FLS. These shells are shot nearly every weekend and I am getting x10 at least, more if i only neck size (which is not always practical because I also shoot Service Rifle and share brass between guns, need to stop doing this). Frankly don't have time for all this cleaning stuff - yet my handloads still mechanically go 1/2moa.

My only thought was that perhaps a dirty die may contribute to neck splitting from alleged "micro scratches" down the neck - but the old timers tell me "NO neck splitting is from work hardening" :unknown: . Correctly annealing should help with this. Though I am making more of an effort to clean my dies now that i have Lapua cases dieing on me - ouch.

Must admit that it's been a recent temptation to go back to proper cleaning again, but I can't help but feel it's a waste of time...

For the record this is TR, not F-class. The F brigade dwell on these matters much more - maybe it's more significant when chasing the elusive 1/2moa super-center from their space-ship anchors... it is a small decimal, that's for bloody sure.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by jpsauer88 » 27 Jul 2022, 12:11 pm

Hello
I did a test on this and took photos a while ago. I will post results once i can find the photos i took.
I recall the best was Earth Lemon Burst Ultra Concentrate Dishwashing liquid. Just a tablespoon and tap water - i left them in this for 10 minutes then turned on the US cleaner for 10min.
This is also what i use for wet tumbling.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Jul 2022, 1:49 pm

I did the cleaning test this morning.
Exact recipe used was
200 ml tap water (cold)
50 ml white vinegar
A squirt of cheap dish washing liquid.
1/2 teaspoon with rock salt OR No salt
Cases were 223. I clean each time I reload the cases.
Time in Aldi Ultrasonic cleaner runtime 130 seconds + about 20 seconds soaking before dumping in clean water.

Dirty - Neck sml.JPG
Dirty - Neck sml.JPG (81.81 KiB) Viewed 5293 times



Cleaned-Neck Sml.JPG
Cleaned-Neck Sml.JPG (62.9 KiB) Viewed 5293 times



Cleaned- Primer pocket SML.JPG
Cleaned- Primer pocket SML.JPG (105.67 KiB) Viewed 5293 times


No doubt in my mind the recipe with salt does clean a fraction quicker. But does it matter in practice,,,I doubt it.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by dnedative » 27 Jul 2022, 6:20 pm

Problem with the salt and vinegar method is that it leaches the zinc out of the brass, leave them in for a while and they will go pink. HCl is a strong acid.
If you use citric acid its not an issue, I run my bath at 60c for 25mins without issue.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Apollo » 27 Jul 2022, 6:51 pm

Have a read here...

https://www.accurateshooter.com/feature ... -cleaning/

Been using that method for years but as a final step once dried I tumble cases in corn cob media with a touch of Lyman Brite added.

Some cases I have done a dozen years ago are still bright and shiney.

Each to their own though, I won't change my system.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Wm.Traynor » 27 Jul 2022, 7:20 pm

dnedative wrote:Don't use salt, I have no idea how and why it made it into recipes, its not a catalyst, its not a surfactant nor does it clean anything. When you mix a solution of it with vinegar you get a weak solution of hydrochloric acid. Back in the day it was probably the home brew copper cleaner for your kitchen pots and pans if you had nothing else on hand but for brass vinegar alone will do more.

Always used citirc acid and dish soap, sprinkle and a squirt of each. Let it run nice and hot for 25mins and they are good enough to use or process further without filling your dies with filth. Never bothered using exact quantity's or distilled water - It costs next to nothing, is mild enough it will never hurt anything and works fine.


"Sprinkle and a squirt of each" Sounds easy. And enough tap water to cover the cases I presume?
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by dnedative » 27 Jul 2022, 7:47 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:
dnedative wrote:Don't use salt, I have no idea how and why it made it into recipes, its not a catalyst, its not a surfactant nor does it clean anything. When you mix a solution of it with vinegar you get a weak solution of hydrochloric acid. Back in the day it was probably the home brew copper cleaner for your kitchen pots and pans if you had nothing else on hand but for brass vinegar alone will do more.

Always used citirc acid and dish soap, sprinkle and a squirt of each. Let it run nice and hot for 25mins and they are good enough to use or process further without filling your dies with filth. Never bothered using exact quantity's or distilled water - It costs next to nothing, is mild enough it will never hurt anything and works fine.


"Sprinkle and a squirt of each" Sounds easy. And enough tap water to cover the cases I presume?


Yeah, dont over think it.
The MSDS for the Lyman turbo sonic liquid lists it as a 10-20% solution of citric acid as a comparison.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Jul 2022, 7:47 pm

I'll be switching back to Ultrasonic cleaning soon as my ebay tumblers drum disinterested apon contact with ethanol (that's another story)

I'm going to to some homework on U/S cleaning solutions.

My experience with US Cleaning is that when using acidic solutions the carbon didn't budge easily despite hours of buzzing with a big laboratory grade cleaner, but the oxide readily dissolved into solution... surprise surprise

The backyard chemist in me thinks that perhaps 2 different solutions to do each task separately might be beneficial.
Decarbonisation and de-oxidisation
oxides being cleaned with an acidic solution and carbon more easily removed with alkaline.

Thoughts?
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by pedro4977 » 27 Jul 2022, 9:04 pm

I find a teaspoon of citric acid and a 1/2 teaspoon of cream of tartar with a squirt of morning fresh in my 1.8L cleaner is as good as any or better than the overpriced factory ******. The truck wash from repco in the green and white bottle is good also. You only need a poofteenth though.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by in2anity » 27 Jul 2022, 9:24 pm

Just curious though - what do you all think is being gained by cleaning like this? Easier on the dies in theory? Neck tension related? Purely aesthetic? Honest question.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Jul 2022, 10:15 pm

"Sprinkle and a squirt of each" Sounds easy. And enough tap water to cover the cases I presume?

Yep, and just 130 seconds. And rinse. Job done.

I think you will find HCL acid Is used at ADI to clean brass.

What's to be gained? Probably SFA. Thats why I don't have a $200 tumbler and media. The number of shots I fire would never justify one.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by wanneroo » 28 Jul 2022, 12:57 am

Personally I did ultrasonic cleaning of brass for a while and have also used it for cleaning parts.

The big problem I found is it doesn't have any agitating action that completely breaks the dirt loose like with a tumbler. It dislodges or loosens dirt, rust, stains, but doesn't always completely remove them.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by JimTom » 28 Jul 2022, 8:18 am

If you place the cases in so they’re not touching each other and have a bit of room to bounce around they clean perfectly. Primer pockets, inside and out they’re spotless.
3 x water, 1 x vinegar and a squirt of dishwashing liquid works a treat.
If you fill the basket so they’re on top of each other then they won’t clean properly, well that’s my experience with my cleaner anyhow.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Wm.Traynor » 28 Jul 2022, 9:02 am

Thank you JimTom, Oldbloke, pedro4977 and dnedative :) :thumbsup:
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Wm.Traynor » 28 Jul 2022, 9:11 am

in2anity wrote:Just curious though - what do you all think is being gained by cleaning like this? Easier on the dies in theory? Neck tension related? Purely aesthetic? Honest question.


My opinion has always been that the cleaner the case, the easier it is for its walls to grip the chamber, on firing. Less grip equals more backthrust which is harder on the lugs.
Further, by cleaning the inside, case volume does not change from shot to shot. This is a very contentious point and in fact, is not supported by research, that I know of. I always operated one of my rifles at full throttle and did not want pressures to increase, as a result of reduced internal case volume. All of this is conjecture on my part. I can't prove any of it.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by in2anity » 28 Jul 2022, 9:40 am

Wm.Traynor wrote:
in2anity wrote:Just curious though - what do you all think is being gained by cleaning like this? Easier on the dies in theory? Neck tension related? Purely aesthetic? Honest question.


My opinion has always been that the cleaner the case, the easier it is for its walls to grip the chamber, on firing. Less grip equals more backthrust which is harder on the lugs.
Further, by cleaning the inside, case volume does not change from shot to shot. This is a very contentious point and in fact, is not supported by research, that I know of. I always operated one of my rifles at full throttle and did not want pressures to increase, as a result of reduced internal case volume. All of this is conjecture on my part. I can't prove any of it.


Yeah well mostly we have to operate based on anecdotal evidence don't we. And yes it seems logical that a dirty case is less desirable than a clean case - it sure can't hurt. Nevertheless, many of the A-grade Target Rifle guys I know, some of which are literally ranked in the top 20 in Australia, never clean their brass, besides a quick wipe with a rag to get the sizing wax off. Yet they still take home the possibles, and often go close to a perfect 50 with 10.

The reason for this is simply because it appears to make no difference to their scores, and the novelty of reloading has looong since worn off. TBH I fall into this camp now - I just can't be bothered, considering I am required to reload x50 per week. I do the minimum required. I don't have the time or the inclination anymore.

So if I were to make a guess about how important it is, based on my own personal experience and mentors around me; I think it makes little difference to the type of target shooting I'm doing (which is not F-class/bipod btw). There are certain steps which are critical to TR accuracy, like annealing; but cleaning doesn't seem to be one of them.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by dnedative » 28 Jul 2022, 6:07 pm

in2anity wrote:Just curious though - what do you all think is being gained by cleaning like this? Easier on the dies in theory? Neck tension related? Purely aesthetic? Honest question.


Mainly to keep dies clean, especially when your sizing significant quantity's of pistol brass.
Secondly for cosmetic and feeding purposes, nice shiny ammo looks nice and drops into cylinders a lot easier than tarnished stuff.

Ultrasonic cleaning is easy and fast, generally clean enough to use as-is.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by JohnV » 31 Jul 2022, 7:47 pm

You don't want salts they harden brass . You want weak organic acids , like vinegar , orange juice , citric acid , sulfamic acid . Try water and a cup of CLR .
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Jul 2022, 9:30 pm

JohnV wrote: You don't want salts they harden brass . You want weak organic acids , like vinegar , orange juice , citric acid , sulfamic acid . Try water and a cup of CLR .


John, would you mind explaining the chemistry behind that?. Keep in mind they are in the solution for 3 minutes.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by dnedative » 01 Aug 2022, 6:26 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
JohnV wrote: You don't want salts they harden brass . You want weak organic acids , like vinegar , orange juice , citric acid , sulfamic acid . Try water and a cup of CLR .


John, would you mind explaining the chemistry behind that?. Keep in mind they are in the solution for 3 minutes.


It will be the the HCl eating out the zinc from the brass embrittling it.
Its not an issue for 3 minutes but when you leave em for half an hour they generally come out pink :)
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by in2anity » 04 Aug 2022, 10:19 am

dnedative wrote:Secondly for cosmetic and feeding purposes

Right, yes, a self loader is not something I had considered. Solid argument pro cleaning.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by Bruiser64 » 12 Aug 2022, 10:32 am

I use the Hornady ultrasonic cleaning solution. So little of it is used, that it works out to be extremely cheap. I de-prime my cases before putting them in the cleaner. Once I have finished the ultrasonic cleaning I dry the cases in a food dryer, then put them in my tumbler over night. The cases come out very clean both inside and out. I am a field shooter, so I don’t need to re-load terribly often. So the mucking around is worth it for me.
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaner

Post by phill55phill » 12 Aug 2022, 5:35 pm

Thanks for your replys
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Post by johnblackpigs » 24 Sep 2022, 9:18 pm

Ultra sonic cleaning: creme of tartar,1tbs ,then rise thoroughly. Quick and inexpensive.
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