.223 Reloading - will it blow in my face?

[JustAnotherShooter]

hi guys,
after shooting around 150 factory ammo, i've decided to join this fantastic world of reloading, bought few components, cleaned, resized my brasses and primed.Now I am about to reload my first batch and I am lost!
I have Lee modern reloading (2nd edition), I've looked at the ADI website but I can't find what a start load should be!
I have:

Rifle: Tikka t3x 1:12 twist in 223 Rem
Powder : Benchmark 2
Projectile: Hornady V-max 55 grain (i've got few good groups at the range with different factory ammo)
Primers: CCI small rifle

On ADI website for powder equivalents (http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/)

Bench Mark 2 BENCHMARK IMR3031 AA2015

But from the Lee reloading manual,
- 55grain jacked bullet BENCHMARK powder to load 24 grain
- 55grain jacked bullet IMR3031 powder to load 21.6 grain
wait a minute, didn't ADI said that those powders are equivalent? is V-max a jacked bullet?

From ADI website http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/data-ri ... -56-x-45mm
for some reason does not show any load data for Hornady V-max 55grain so I have to choose other bullet type as:

Bullet Powder Starting Maximum
55 GR. Barnes TSX FB Bench Mark 2 20.0 grain 2885 fps 47600 psi 22.2 grain 3066 fps 52200 psi
55 GR. Sinterfire Bench Mark 2 21.0 grain 2903 fps 42600 psi 23.4 grain 3128 fps 51000 psi
55 GR. Speer SP Bench Mark 2 24.0 grain 3113 fps 42600 cup 25.6 grain 3264 fps 50000 cup

I look at those projectiles above and they look completely different from the V-max..not too sure which to pick up...
if I start with 20grain i am afraid I could be undercharging my ammos and create a big pressure issue ... talking of which...
why does ADI website list both 223 and 5.56 in the same page for reloading data: 223 and 5.56 are virtually identical the biggest difference between the two is that 5.56x45mm ammunition is loaded to a significantly higher pressure than the 223!
any comments would be greatly appreciated! happy shooting!

[bladeracer]

Powder equivalents just means they burn at similar rates, it doesn't mean they or their data are interchangeable.

The bullet doesn't matter, any bullet of similar design will work. Monolithic lead, copper or brass bullets will tend to have different data from jacketed lead bullets due to the hardness of the materials. Jacketed bullets will have some differences due to the bearing surface of the bullet and the friction it creates, but generally the data will work fine. None of it is written in stone. The max loads were the max loads they found in their firearm with their loading techniques - max for you could be significantly above or below theirs.

5.56x45mm factory ammo can be loaded to higher levels, for reloading you decide yourself how much pressure you want in your rifle.

[animalpest]

Stick with the recommended loads from ADI for 55gr bullets and that powder. Start at the minimum and work up.

Loads will also be different due to rifle chambers, different brass and so on. Hence start low and work up.

As bladeracer said, use it as a guide. But ignore at your peril, especially if you lack experience.

[JustAnotherShooter]

thank bladeracer but if I say 1mile is equivalent to 1.6km or 1600 meters then I can use any of it but still 1.6km is!
in this case if burns at the same rate why one 24 and the other 21.6 ?!

- 55grain jacked bullet BENCHMARK powder to load 24 grain
- 55grain jacked bullet IMR3031 powder to load 21.6 grain

we're talking about 2.4 grains difference btw the two..
same for ADI's website
Bullet Powder Starting Maximum
55 GR. Barnes TSX FB Bench Mark 2 20.0 grain 2885 fps 47600 psi 22.2 grain 3066 fps 52200 psi
55 GR. Sinterfire Bench Mark 2 21.0 grain 2903 fps 42600 psi 23.4 grain 3128 fps 51000 psi
55 GR. Speer SP Bench Mark 2 24.0 grain 3113 fps 42600 cup 25.6 grain 3264 fps 50000 cup

if I load 24 grains - Speer SP it will be 1.8 grains over the maximum for Barnes TSX FB


animalpest, thanks, that's what I am trying to figure out! and yes I have absolutely no experience...

[deye243]

A 223 with benchmark 2 powder will comfortably push a 55 grain pill 3350 feet per second I have literally burn 10 kilos of this powder over my shooting life I used to load 25.7 behind a 50g pill just a good accurate working load if I was you I would start it either 23.5 or at 24 and just keep going up in .3 grain until you hit pressure signs then back of .5g and tweak from there.
fantastic powder underutilised in this country but having said that the reason I went to 8208 is it does better velocity with a little less pressure for my 3 223 which brings me to the other point when you're looking at pressure in loading manuals forget it they use universal receivers and test barrels nothing like what you and I have access to and every gun is an individual that is why factory ammunition is sooooooow .

[JustAnotherShooter]

deye243, you save me! I am way more comfortable knowing someone has used those loads for real! thanks heaps!

[straightshooter]

BM2 is supposed to be the cannister version of the powder optimised for military 5.56 loads.
It's only issue is that it can be tricky with maximum loads as listed in loading guides. They can easily go over pressure in your rifle without the usual warning signs..
For example in my 17 Rem I get leaking or blown primers at 2 grains below the ADI listed maximum but a happy working load is 2 1/2 grains below ADI max.
In the 223 the overpressure does not happen so suddenly but you still have to approach load development with more caution than with other powders.

[SCJ429]

A 223 with benchmark 2 powder will comfortably push a 55 grain pill 3350 feet per second I have literally burn 10 kilos of this powder over my shooting life I used to load 25.7 behind a 50g pill just a good accurate working load if I was you I would start it either 23.5 or at 24 and just keep going up in .3 grain until you hit pressure signs then back of .5g and tweak from there.
fantastic powder underutilised in this country but having said that the reason I went to 8208 is it does better velocity with a little less pressure for my 3 223 which brings me to the other point when you're looking at pressure in loading manuals forget it they use universal receivers and test barrels nothing like what you and I have access to and every gun is an individual that is why factory ammunition is sooooooow .

Good approach, when I expect to see some pressure I only increase the load by 0.2 of a grain. Don't wait until you blow a primer to stop, look for an extractor mark on the head stamp, sticky bolt and primers creeping into the firing pin hole. Work backwards from where you see pressure to get a decent group which has a low ES, if you are using a Chrono. You would be hard pressed to shove enough BM2 into a 223 case to have you in serious trouble. If the primers are mushrooming, try BR4 or the 450 magnum primers which have a harder cup.

[bladeracer]

I sort of agree, but it's more like Pepsi and Coke, they both do the same thing, in a very similar way, but are very different
One mile is not equivalent to 1600m, it's approximately 1600m. But I do agree, the manufacturers really shouldn't use the word equivalent in these charts. They just want to show where each of their powders is roughly equivalent to other manufacturers' powders. If you can't get a particular powder you should be able to get similar performance from powders in the same region on the chart - but most definitely not with the same data.

The chemistry of powders is complex, some powders can be very similar, but they then coat it differently to slow its burn rate to various levels.

As I said, no load data are written in stone - all of them only apply to the specific firearm they were tested in, at that time, using their components and their techniques at the time. Your results are very unlikely to be the same.

The Barnes TSX is a monolithic bullet, I think the Sinterfire may be as well, which would explain why they have different data. The Speer is a conventional jacketed lead bullet, like the VMax. Yes, I would expect to be well into pressure signs using jacketed lead data for a monolithic copper or brass bullet - use data for a bullet of similar design. Start low and work up, without changing other things during the process. You can load the brass ten times all exactly the same way, but on the tenth firing they might blow the primers out because you haven't kept them trimmed to length and the case mouth is impinging into the throat. Read some good manuals, several times, whenever you have some free time, read them again. You might not be able to get Speer HotCor's so you switch to a Hornady BTHP or something, and blow the primers, because the ogive of the bullet is a little fatter and is impinging into the rifling. There are lots of little things you need to learn, but generally you're unlikely to have serious issues unless you step way outside the manufacturers' recommendations.

thank bladeracer but if I say 1mile is equivalent to 1.6km or 1600 meters then I can use any of it but still 1.6km is!
in this case if burns at the same rate why one 24 and the other 21.6 ?!

- 55grain jacked bullet BENCHMARK powder to load 24 grain
- 55grain jacked bullet IMR3031 powder to load 21.6 grain

we're talking about 2.4 grains difference btw the two..
same for ADI's website
Bullet Powder Starting Maximum
55 GR. Barnes TSX FB Bench Mark 2 20.0 grain 2885 fps 47600 psi 22.2 grain 3066 fps 52200 psi
55 GR. Sinterfire Bench Mark 2 21.0 grain 2903 fps 42600 psi 23.4 grain 3128 fps 51000 psi
55 GR. Speer SP Bench Mark 2 24.0 grain 3113 fps 42600 cup 25.6 grain 3264 fps 50000 cup

if I load 24 grains - Speer SP it will be 1.8 grains over the maximum for Barnes TSX FB


animalpest, thanks, that's what I am trying to figure out! and yes I have absolutely no experience...

[SCJ429]

If I was to shoot 55 grain VMax out of my Tikka, which I do, I use 2206H which easily gives you an extra 100 fps or so. But if BM2 is what you have, it will work fine. If you started at 23 grains, the bullet would definitely exit your barrel and hit your target.

[deye243]

BM2 is supposed to be the cannister version of the powder optimised for military 5.56 loads.
It's only issue is that it can be tricky with maximum loads as listed in loading guides. They can easily go over pressure in your rifle without the usual warning signs..
For example in my 17 Rem I get leaking or blown primers at 2 grains below the ADI listed maximum but a happy working load is 2 1/2 grains below ADI max.
In the 223 the overpressure does not happen so suddenly but you still have to approach load development with more caution than with other powders.

That would probably be because benchmark 2 is to fast a powder for 17 rem regardless of whether it's in the manual or not 06h or 08 would be far better choices as mentioned a birth went through kilos of this stuff never had a problem with it in a 223 that I own or 6x45

[Blr243]

Settle down a bit. And get right. Don’t get hurt

[bigrich]

hi guys,
after shooting around 150 factory ammo, i've decided to join this fantastic world of reloading, bought few components, cleaned, resized my brasses and primed.Now I am about to reload my first batch and I am lost!
I have Lee modern reloading (2nd edition), I've looked at the ADI website but I can't find what a start load should be!
I have:

Rifle: Tikka t3x 1:12 twist in 223 Rem
Powder : Benchmark 2
Projectile: Hornady V-max 55 grain (i've got few good groups at the range with different factory ammo)
Primers: CCI small rifle

On ADI website for powder equivalents (http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/)

Bench Mark 2 BENCHMARK IMR3031 AA2015

But from the Lee reloading manual,
- 55grain jacked bullet BENCHMARK powder to load 24 grain
- 55grain jacked bullet IMR3031 powder to load 21.6 grain
wait a minute, didn't ADI said that those powders are equivalent? is V-max a jacked bullet?

From ADI website http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/data-ri ... -56-x-45mm
for some reason does not show any load data for Hornady V-max 55grain so I have to choose other bullet type as:

Bullet Powder Starting Maximum
55 GR. Barnes TSX FB Bench Mark 2 20.0 grain 2885 fps 47600 psi 22.2 grain 3066 fps 52200 psi
55 GR. Sinterfire Bench Mark 2 21.0 grain 2903 fps 42600 psi 23.4 grain 3128 fps 51000 psi
55 GR. Speer SP Bench Mark 2 24.0 grain 3113 fps 42600 cup 25.6 grain 3264 fps 50000 cup

I look at those projectiles above and they look completely different from the V-max..not too sure which to pick up...
if I start with 20grain i am afraid I could be undercharging my ammos and create a big pressure issue ... talking of which...
why does ADI website list both 223 and 5.56 in the same page for reloading data: 223 and 5.56 are virtually identical the biggest difference between the two is that 5.56x45mm ammunition is loaded to a significantly higher pressure than the 223!
any comments would be greatly appreciated! happy shooting!

i have a 1-12 tikka t3 and i load 55 vmax with 23.8 gn of BM2 with adi brass for outstanding accuracy . according to some data this is a starting load . shoots very accuratly out of my rifle and is easy on the throat . win-win

[animalpest]

I might shoot over 250 animals per week with my Tikka .223. Chasing maximum velocity (and pressure) is not the way to go.

The loads listed above will all work. Your rifle may likely need tweeking of those for best accuracy.

In my experience, monolithic bullets can have increased pressure compared to lead cored. But the length of the bullets bearing surface that contacts the rifling can change the pressures and velocity. Hence the correct advice given is to select similar bullets when looking at reloading data.

[Peter988]

I might shoot over 250 animals per week with my Tikka .223. Chasing maximum velocity (and pressure) is not the way to go.

The loads listed above will all work. Your rifle may likely need tweeking of those for best accuracy.
.

Yep. I don’t get this chasing velocity. My 223 shoots a really tight group with 23.5 of 8208. Pretty much minimum load but easier on the barrel and all the animals I shoot all fall over.

[SCJ429]

I might shoot over 250 animals per week with my Tikka .223. Chasing maximum velocity (and pressure) is not the way to go.

The loads listed above will all work. Your rifle may likely need tweeking of those for best accuracy.
.

Yep. I don’t get this chasing velocity. My 223 shoots a really tight group with 23.5 of 8208. Pretty much minimum load but easier on the barrel and all the animals I shoot all fall over.

Is there any data that shows that shooting a 50 grain pill at 3,000 fps extends the life of your barrel in any meaningful way over shooting it at 3,400 fps?

[bladeracer]

I might shoot over 250 animals per week with my Tikka .223. Chasing maximum velocity (and pressure) is not the way to go.

The loads listed above will all work. Your rifle may likely need tweeking of those for best accuracy.
.

Yep. I don’t get this chasing velocity. My 223 shoots a really tight group with 23.5 of 8208. Pretty much minimum load but easier on the barrel and all the animals I shoot all fall over.

Is there any data that shows that shooting a 50 grain pill at 3,000 fps extends the life of your barrel in any meaningful way over shooting it at 3,400 fps?

I think there's enough science to indicate that the result of higher charges is higher temperatures and higher pressures, which has got to cause more wear to the barrel steel - there is enough empirical evidence that it certainly increases the wear rate of your brass.

A very quick look at some load data shows that pushing a 55gn bullet at 3400fps uses 28gn of AR2208 and makes 50,000CUP. Dropping the charge only down to 3150fps uses 25.5gn and makes 41,000CUP - that is a very significant drop in pressure. The difference is about 50m in range - just get 50m closer to your target and you have the same result as that hotter load. The 3400fps load is down to 3150fps at about 50m. At 400m your 3400fps bullet is down to about 1800fps - about the same as the 3150fps at bullet at 350m. There really is no need to push your loads to the highest possible pressures for hunting purposes.

[in2anity]

24gr BM2 + 55gr VMAX

24grBM2_55grVMAX.png (73.65 KiB) Viewed 8548 times

24gr of BM2 under a 55gr is hot. Seating depth plays a factor - if you can afford to seat them a bit further out than 2.256" (say 2.3") it will drop your pressures a little bit. Depends if you cycle like a maniac. A modern bolt action will probably handle 24gr - but sh!t it's gonna be hard on your brass. IDK why you'd do it in a hunting rifle.

23.5gr is 52kpsi - that's as high as I'd personally go in your shoes. But as mentioned already, you need to work up to carefully, looking for pressure signs.

[Oldbloke]

I have:
Rifle: Tikka t3x 1:12 twist in 223 Rem
Powder : Benchmark 2
Projectile: Hornady V-max 55 grain (i've got few good groups at the range with different factory ammo)
Primers: CCI small rifle

Use the Hornady V-max 55 & BM2
ADI lists
Min 24gr
Max 25.6gr

Just load 24gr and work up in 0.3gr steps. (It's a small case)
Look for signs of pressure.
First good accurate load stop. No need to
chase velocity as mentioned.
Your learning, personally I'd stop at 25.6gr

Suggest 4 or 5 shot groups. And you will find one plenty good enough for hunting.

Resized_tempFileForShare_20220726-075754_1007045648366.jpeg (248.44 KiB) Viewed 8511 times

P.S. suggest a 0.5mm bullet jump

NOTE: Post edited. Data/load was incorrect.

[Boundry Rider]

Hawkeye SS .223REM
1 in 9 twist
60G Nosler BT
AR2208 26.8G
Federal cases
3180FPS average.

While it’s pertinent to start low, it’s important to remember that loading data has shrunk over the years.

[bigrich]

24grBM2_55grVMAX.png

24gr of BM2 under a 55gr is hot. Seating depth plays a factor - if you can afford to seat them a bit further out than 2.256" (say 2.3") it will drop your pressures a little bit. Depends if you cycle like a maniac. A modern bolt action will probably handle 24gr - but sh!t it's gonna be hard on your brass. IDK why you'd do it in a hunting rifle.

23.5gr is 52kpsi - that's as high as I'd personally go in your shoes. But as mentioned already, you need to work up to carefully, looking for pressure signs.

Hmmm, interesting. I understand the OP’ confusion at load data now. My load is 23.8gn of BM2 , seated 10 thou longer than standard COL. after your post I checked uncle nick’s load data. His starting load for a 55gn projectile and BM2 is 24gn , with a max load of 25.5 gn . Checking my ADI data, I find they list one vmax load, for the 60gn projectile . Starting load for BM2 is 23gn with a max of 24.6gn . The listed COL is the same according to hornady and ADI used the same COL with the 60gn vmax data. After your post saying 24gn of BM2 was hot, ya had me worried. I always cross reference to my three different load data books, or projectile manufacturers data found online

Hope this information helps the OP. Cross reference different sources and play safe

[bladeracer]

The load data you appear to be quoting is for the 55gn Sinterfire, which is a monolithic copper bullet - the VMax is a conventional jacketed-lead bullet. For the VMax use the 55gn Speer SP data - 24gn up to 25.6gn.

ADI .223 VMax 55gn BM2.jpg (26.86 KiB) Viewed 8520 times

I have:
Rifle: Tikka t3x 1:12 twist in 223 Rem
Powder : Benchmark 2
Projectile: Hornady V-max 55 grain (i've got few good groups at the range with different factory ammo)
Primers: CCI small rifle

Use the Hornady V-max 55 & BM2
ADI lists
Min 21gr
Max 23.4gr

Just load 21gr and work up in 0.3gr steps. (It's a small case)
Look for signs of pressure.
First good accurate load stop. No need to
chase velocity as mentioned.
Your learning, personally I'd stop at 23.4gr

Suggest 4 or 5 shot groups. And you will find one plenty good enough for hunting.

The attachment Resized_Screenshot_20220725-233808_Open_Office_Viewer(1).jpeg is no longer available

P.S. suggest a 0.5mm bullet jump

[in2anity]

The load data you appear to be quoting is for the 55gn Sinterfire, which is a monolithic copper bullet - the VMax is a conventional jacketed-lead bullet. For the VMax use the 55gn Speer SP data - 24gn up to 25.6gn.

I'd run that through a target action, like a Barnard. But I certainly wouldn't do it in some older, or cheap thing. Nevertheless I presume the Tikka action is pretty strong by today's standards, but they are still a lot lighter than a dedicated target action. Yeah sure the actions are probably proofed well over 60kpsi, but your window for error gets smaller up that top end - like condensation or oil in the chamber can to bump your pressures up even more. Unless he's shooting OPM comp (55gr? nope), I don't see the point in pushing this envelope...

[Oldbloke]

The load data you appear to be quoting is for the 55gn Sinterfire, which is a monolithic copper bullet - the VMax is a conventional jacketed-lead bullet. For the VMax use the 55gn Speer SP data - 24gn up to 25.6gn.

ADI .223 VMax 55gn BM2.jpg

My error. I have edited the post.

[SCJ429]

I might shoot over 250 animals per week with my Tikka .223. Chasing maximum velocity (and pressure) is not the way to go.

The loads listed above will all work. Your rifle may likely need tweeking of those for best accuracy.
.

Yep. I don’t get this chasing velocity. My 223 shoots a really tight group with 23.5 of 8208. Pretty much minimum load but easier on the barrel and all the animals I shoot all fall over.

Is there any data that shows that shooting a 50 grain pill at 3,000 fps extends the life of your barrel in any meaningful way over shooting it at 3,400 fps?

I think there's enough science to indicate that the result of higher charges is higher temperatures and higher pressures, which has got to cause more wear to the barrel steel - there is enough empirical evidence that it certainly increases the wear rate of your brass.

A very quick look at some load data shows that pushing a 55gn bullet at 3400fps uses 28gn of AR2208 and makes 50,000CUP. Dropping the charge only down to 3150fps uses 25.5gn and makes 41,000CUP - that is a very significant drop in pressure. The difference is about 50m in range - just get 50m closer to your target and you have the same result as that hotter load. The 3400fps load is down to 3150fps at about 50m. At 400m your 3400fps bullet is down to about 1800fps - about the same as the 3150fps at bullet at 350m. There really is no need to push your loads to the highest possible pressures for hunting purposes.

I don't think that 3,400 fps is the highest possible pressure you can send a 50 grain bullet from a 223, depending on your components and chamber you can push on from there.
Does the extra pressure wear out your barrel? I think the speed you shoot would have more of an impact on barrel life. Long strings of shots create more barrel erosion that a single shot going 3,400 fps.
There are some benefits to the hunter sending the bullet at sensible speeds. A shorter flight time reduces wind drift. A higher terminal velocity can assist with your bullet expanding properly. There is no downside for a hunter in sending the bullet at the potential of the case. How many hunters are going to shoot 5,000 or more shots out of their rifle in a lifetime?
I know a guy who bought a 300 Win Mag and wanted to save his barrel so he loaded it down to 308 velocities. The simple answer for him would be to buy a 308 and shoot it at its potential.

[JustAnotherShooter]

I ended up loading 23.8 grains of BM2, 55 gr hornady vmax soft point and i constantly hit the gong at 100 metres, i didn't have a chance to shoot far than that yet but I don't see the problem there, no signs of pressure on the exhaust cartridges

btw don't buy those cheapy ebay auto settings targets, is not steel and there is an hole for every hit lol

[SCJ429]

Those targets are for rimfies, the steel is very soft. What were your groups like?

[JustAnotherShooter]

always max 1 inch group

[SCJ429]

Thanks for the reply, you must have been busy.....for a year.

[JohnV]

Also remember that if you develop a max pressure load in the cool winter months then shoot it in the hot summer it could go over pressure and have hard extraction or pierced primers . Even when using ADI powders there is still some temperature pressure increase . So staying a bit below the recommended max loads usually takes care of that possible variation .