308W and Trailboss accuracy

[Over The Hill]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

[Blr243]

I saw that you have a couple of kg of trail boss and that you are also in west au . How did this freak situation arise ? I have tried tb in 308 but have not recorded or remembered anything of use. Blade wil chime in and u will be sorted

[bladeracer]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

I don't own .308Win but I use Trailboss in everything, including 7mm-08 and .30-06. I haven't tried the 150gn Hornady SP in the .30-06 but I use them in .303 and 7.62x54R with very good accuracy. In 7mm-08 I prefer the Speer 145gn Hotcore on Trailboss. I've pushed it as high as 17.5gn making about 1550fps and 1.5-minutes at 100m. 10.5gn gives me around 1150fps and one-minute accuracy, but it has a sonic crack still. With Trailboss you'll find a point where increasing the charge makes very little more velocity, but it's worth trying as it may tighten up the groups. Should certainly be more than accurate enough for banging steel and paper, but it will suffer in the wind - at 1600fps it'll have more than double the wind drift of a 2800fps load. Trailboss is not a powder of choice for precision shooting

Try the Berry's .311" 123gn Copper-Plated bullet, it shoots very well in my .30-06 at about 1700fps - my favourite load for plinking steel without waking up the neighbourhood

I doubt you'll get much more than about 1600fps with 150gn bullets on Trailboss, and I wouldn't expect the SP to deform at that velocity, even at near contact range. For hunting try the 300BLK subsonic bullets like the 190gn Sub-X, or use lighter 86gn to 110gn bullets to push the velocity up, or use pistol bullets, like the .312" 100gn XTP. You might not get these to chamber though if you have a tight chamber in the rifle. 200m is going to be a stretch against live targets at these velocities. For a reduced hunting load I'd use AR2206H (H4895) and run the 150gn at about 2200fps at the muzzle. At 2200fps it'll drop about 250mm at 200m with a 100m zero and be down below 1700fps.

[bigpete]

I was getting around 1.5" groups at 100m with a subsonic trailboss load years ago. Rifle was a Remington model 7 with a 1 in 10 twist,firing 170gn round nose sierra pro hunters

[Over The Hill]

I saw that you have a couple of kg of trail boss and that you are also in west au . How did this freak situation arise ? I have tried tb in 308 but have not recorded or remembered anything of use. Blade wil chime in and u will be sorted

Trailboss was leftover from my handgun loading days. Might as well try it out since I have it.

[Over The Hill]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

I don't own .308Win but I use Trailboss in everything, including 7mm-08 and .30-06. I haven't tried the 150gn Hornady SP in the .30-06 but I use them in .303 and 7.62x54R with very good accuracy. In 7mm-08 I prefer the Speer 145gn Hotcore on Trailboss. I've pushed it as high as 17.5gn making about 1550fps and 1.5-minutes at 100m. 10.5gn gives me around 1150fps and one-minute accuracy, but it has a sonic crack still. With Trailboss you'll find a point where increasing the charge makes very little more velocity, but it's worth trying as it may tighten up the groups. Should certainly be more than accurate enough for banging steel and paper, but it will suffer in the wind - at 1600fps it'll have more than double the wind drift of a 2800fps load. Trailboss is not a powder of choice for precision shooting

Try the Berry's .311" 123gn Copper-Plated bullet, it shoots very well in my .30-06 at about 1700fps - my favourite load for plinking steel without waking up the neighbourhood

I doubt you'll get much more than about 1600fps with 150gn bullets on Trailboss, and I wouldn't expect the SP to deform at that velocity, even at near contact range. For hunting try the 300BLK subsonic bullets like the 190gn Sub-X, or use lighter 86gn to 110gn bullets to push the velocity up, or use pistol bullets, like the .312" 100gn XTP. You might not get these to chamber though if you have a tight chamber in the rifle. 200m is going to be a stretch against live targets at these velocities. For a reduced hunting load I'd use AR2206H (H4895) and run the 150gn at about 2200fps at the muzzle. At 2200fps it'll drop about 250mm at 200m with a 100m zero and be down below 1700fps.

Thanks for the info Blade, gives me hope of achieving a good load for steel & paper. Not intending to hunt with these loads tho so wil keep an eye out for the Berrys pills. Mind you seems no one is wanting to send eanything west nowadays so at the mercy of the local shops.

[mchughcb]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

Just to confirm, you want average group size, average velocity and standard deviation, with 150 grain hornady interlocks out to 100m?

Before I answer that, can you please tell me what rifle you are using, what barrel length, what twist rate and do you shoot competitively?

and

Are you intending to do reduced loads or subsonic loads ie. less than 1036 fps?

[bladeracer]

He's asking what we're getting in our rifles, not his.

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

Just to confirm, you want average group size, average velocity and standard deviation, with 150 grain hornady interlocks out to 100m?

Before I answer that, can you please tell me what rifle you are using, what barrel length, what twist rate and do you shoot competitively?

and

Are you intending to do reduced loads or subsonic loads ie. less than 1036 fps?

[Wyliecoyote]

With a good 308 and various jacketed bullets it is reasonably easy to get sub MOA groups using Trailboss when going subsonic. The ideal go to velocity is around 1050 fps. A 308 tops out at around 14 grains of TB for 1400 fps with a 150 grain jacketed bullet. Beyond that it is a compressed charge which Trailboss does not respond well to showing up as erratic velocity.
The biggest issue is bullet expansion with jacketed bullets and why I eventually went to cast lead for game like Chital stags around various farming properties.

The one commercial jacketed bullet I did have succes with using Trailboss in the 308 at subsonic speeds was the Speer 125 TNT. Worked well on both hogs and deer due to the very thin jacket which deforms easily at slower speeds. The accuracy of this bullet at subsonic speeds is astonishing with sub half MOA easily achieved. There are newer bullets out now like the 190 Hornady specially designed for subsonic use on game. Outside of cast or the TNT, most other bullets are just too hard for heart lung shots but are adequate for head shots.
For 200 meters, you need a good drop chart and quite possibly 208 Amax for reliable kills. The longest shots I have taken is a Chital stag at 120 meters with a Lee cast bullet of 150 grains and another with a 185 grain HR cast bullet of the flat nose type. Both smashed through the shoulders and both stags died on the spot. Most shots are well inside that if I can help it.
The one thing to take into account at subsonic velocities is that unless you are running a very slippery VLD like the 208 Amax or ELD X, just about every other bullet has the trajectory of your average 22LR. If you go too say 1400 fps, the trans sonic range can and does play havoc with some bullets where if you are running a slower twist rate it is a regular thing to see stray shots or even keyholes. This is why subsonic speeds of 1070 fps or less are generally advised. The other problem is ballistic apps become so so with bullets at subsonic speeds, so a real world drop chart devised from actual shots fired is also advised.
My drop chart with the 125 TNT was inch high at 50 m, dead on at 75 and 4 inches low at 100 m. Beyond that just an educated guess.

[Over The Hill]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

Just to confirm, you want average group size, average velocity and standard deviation, with 150 grain hornady interlocks out to 100m?

Before I answer that, can you please tell me what rifle you are using, what barrel length, what twist rate and do you shoot competitively?

and

Are you intending to do reduced loads or subsonic loads ie. less than 1036 fps?

I am after reduced loads with reasonable accuracy out to 200M for paper targets and gongs

The selection of projectile and powder is because that's what I have, I understand not necessarily best for the job but its what I already have available

To be specific, the intent is to use in 2 different rifles
1. Ruger Scout (M77 Action) with optic. 18" 1/10 Barrel. For practice and general plinking a the range without bothering those around me
2. No4 Mk2 308W Conversion with new 25" 1/12 Barrel. This is proofed for 7.62 NATO so want to avoid the higher 308W Pressures and also keep it pleasurable to shoot using irons out to 200M. Not talking benchrest accuracy here as a blind man could prob out shoot me on a good day but just something that I can expect to group around 2-3 MOA at 100 if I do it right. I will do my own load development and testing and back to the original post. just wondering what others have achieved in 308 with Trailboss just in case I am wasting my time with this combination

[mchughcb]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

Just to confirm, you want average group size, average velocity and standard deviation, with 150 grain hornady interlocks out to 100m?

Before I answer that, can you please tell me what rifle you are using, what barrel length, what twist rate and do you shoot competitively?

and

Are you intending to do reduced loads or subsonic loads ie. less than 1036 fps?

Consulting my notes, for 12 grains of trailboss you should get around 1050 fps with 150 grain hornady interlocks.


I am after reduced loads with reasonable accuracy out to 200M for paper targets and gongs

The selection of projectile and powder is because that's what I have, I understand not necessarily best for the job but its what I already have available

To be specific, the intent is to use in 2 different rifles
1. Ruger Scout (M77 Action) with optic. 18" 1/10 Barrel. For practice and general plinking a the range without bothering those around me
2. No4 Mk2 308W Conversion with new 25" 1/12 Barrel. This is proofed for 7.62 NATO so want to avoid the higher 308W Pressures and also keep it pleasurable to shoot using irons out to 200M. Not talking benchrest accuracy here as a blind man could prob out shoot me on a good day but just something that I can expect to group around 2-3 MOA at 100 if I do it right. I will do my own load development and testing and back to the original post. just wondering what others have achieved in 308 with Trailboss just in case I am wasting my time with this combination

Consulting my notes, for 12 grains of trailboss you should get around 1050 fps with 150 grain hornady interlocks with a 1:10 twist and 24" barrel. SD is pretty good ie around 20fps. I can get less than 25mm at 50m using a 6X scope. At 100m I can get 35mm to 40mm for a 3 shot group. I haven't bothered at 200m as it will have the trajectory of a rainbow and I suspect you might need a 20 MOA rail.

I've also got similar results with my 30-06 using 13.5 grains of trail boss and 150grain interlocks. It was surprisingly accurate.

One word of warning, keep the reduced load cases separate from the standard loads. The reduced pressure can make them crack if you fire them full again. I read it some where and had to find out first hand. Good luck.

[Over The Hill]

Hello, looking for feedback from those that have used Trailboss in 308W. I am looking at doing some reduced loads for range use only out to 200M and since I already have couple kilos of Trailboss spare and a box of 500 Hornady 150g Interlock Soft Points I am keen to give this a go. Happy to stick to the ADI tables but the one thing they dont give you is any reference to real world accuracy. Obviously every gun is different and what works in yours may not work in mine but interested to hear what results you have achieved with Trailboss in 308W, particularly velocity, SD & group size. Even better if you have used a 150g pill
Cheers

Just to confirm, you want average group size, average velocity and standard deviation, with 150 grain hornady interlocks out to 100m?

Before I answer that, can you please tell me what rifle you are using, what barrel length, what twist rate and do you shoot competitively?

and

Are you intending to do reduced loads or subsonic loads ie. less than 1036 fps?

Consulting my notes, for 12 grains of trailboss you should get around 1050 fps with 150 grain hornady interlocks.


I am after reduced loads with reasonable accuracy out to 200M for paper targets and gongs

The selection of projectile and powder is because that's what I have, I understand not necessarily best for the job but its what I already have available

To be specific, the intent is to use in 2 different rifles
1. Ruger Scout (M77 Action) with optic. 18" 1/10 Barrel. For practice and general plinking a the range without bothering those around me
2. No4 Mk2 308W Conversion with new 25" 1/12 Barrel. This is proofed for 7.62 NATO so want to avoid the higher 308W Pressures and also keep it pleasurable to shoot using irons out to 200M. Not talking benchrest accuracy here as a blind man could prob out shoot me on a good day but just something that I can expect to group around 2-3 MOA at 100 if I do it right. I will do my own load development and testing and back to the original post. just wondering what others have achieved in 308 with Trailboss just in case I am wasting my time with this combination

Consulting my notes, for 12 grains of trailboss you should get around 1050 fps with 150 grain hornady interlocks with a 1:10 twist and 24" barrel. SD is pretty good ie around 20fps. I can get less than 25mm at 50m using a 6X scope. At 100m I can get 35mm to 40mm for a 3 shot group. I haven't bothered at 200m as it will have the trajectory of a rainbow and I suspect you might need a 20 MOA rail.

I've also got similar results with my 30-06 using 13.5 grains of trail boss and 150grain interlocks. It was surprisingly accurate.

One word of warning, keep the reduced load cases separate from the standard loads. The reduced pressure can make them crack if you fire them full again. I read it some where and had to find out first hand. Good luck.

Sounds like a good place t ostart with some confidence of acceptable results. Point noted regards the cases.
Thanks & will post results once I get to it which might not be for a while yet

[in2anity]

Granted this was out of a 303, but these shots are through a No1+Central at 200m:

https://youtu.be/bkEGpK-brw8

There is not reason you can't replicate this. But your groups will be destroyed by moderate wind at 200m. Save it for the calmer days, or keep your expectations low about group sizes.

[bigpete]

Take every bit of info on here with a grain of salt.
For instance, to get a subsonic load with 170gn pills,I needed to drop down to 9.3gn of trailboss in my rifle. Also,the same powder charge drove the same weight cast lead 100fps faster !

[No1_49er]

Take every bit of info on here with a grain of salt.
For instance, to get a subsonic load with 170gn pills,I needed to drop down to 9.3gn of trailboss in my rifle. Also,the same powder charge drove the same weight cast lead 100fps faster !

It is not surprising that the cast lead projectile was faster. Exclamation mark not really necessary.
The coefficient of friction, lead on steel is quite a bit lower than copper on steel.

[bigpete]

Take every bit of info on here with a grain of salt.
For instance, to get a subsonic load with 170gn pills,I needed to drop down to 9.3gn of trailboss in my rifle. Also,the same powder charge drove the same weight cast lead 100fps faster !

It is not surprising that the cast lead projectile was faster. Exclamation mark not really necessary.
The coefficient of friction, lead on steel is quite a bit lower than copper on steel.

Most people would not expect that though