Reduced / youth loads

[Oldbloke]

I found this by accident. But this topic often comes up so thought I'd post the link.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/reduced-rifle-loads

[bladeracer]

Another expert still using the 8lb tub of powder he bought fifteen years ago

It's good to educate people though. Very few of the shots most people take actually need the full power of the cartridge they're using.

[Oldbloke]

Another expert still using the 8lb tub of powder he bought fifteen years ago

It's good to educate people though. Very few of the shots most people take actually need the full power of the cartridge they're using.

Agree

[northdude]

And if your chasing accuracy youll usually find something under a max load

[SCJ429]

And if your chasing accuracy youll usually find something under a max load

Not quiet sure what you mean?
If you are blowing primers out of the brass at 3,200 fps but can keep them intact at 3,170 fps, that would be your max load. If the rifle shoots bug holes at 3,160 fps, that would be under the max load but still be a pretty hot load. You then found a reduced load at 2,000 feet per second that also shot very well. There still would be a good case to shoot the 3,160 fps load with a shorter flight time and less wind drift. If you were hunting, it would also improve the terminal performance with more energy dumped into the target and better expansion from your bullet.
For a hunter shooting 500 shots a year, it would take him ten years to shoot out their 223 or 308 barrel even if he used pretty warm loads, as fast as factory ammo. Most hunters would shoot less than that out of one rifle.

[bladeracer]

I doubt barrel life even enters into it. You don't drive your car at redline when you go to the shops, or 95% of all your driving. I don't see any reason to run a firearm at redline all the time either.

And if your chasing accuracy youll usually find something under a max load

Not quiet sure what you mean?
If you are blowing primers out of the brass at 3,200 fps but can keep them intact at 3,170 fps, that would be your max load. If the rifle shoots bug holes at 3,160 fps, that would be under the max load but still be a pretty hot load. You then found a reduced load at 2,000 feet per second that also shot very well. There still would be a good case to shoot the 3,160 fps load with a shorter flight time and less wind drift. If you were hunting, it would also improve the terminal performance with more energy dumped into the target and better expansion from your bullet.
For a hunter shooting 500 shots a year, it would take him ten years to shoot out their 223 or 308 barrel even if he used pretty warm loads, as fast as factory ammo. Most hunters would shoot less than that out of one rifle.

[deye243]

I doubt barrel life even enters into it. You don't drive your car at redline when you go to the shops, or 95% of all your driving. I don't see any reason to run a firearm at redline all the time either.

[/quote]
Would you buy a 22 250 or a 243 and seriously run it below 3000 feet per second with a light bullet performance cartridges are purchased just for one reason their performance your response to me sounds like you would buy a 222r and run it like a Rimfire what's the point .
Unless we lived in an even more retarded country than this one where you can only have one rifle.
And as for accuracy hand loading is completely different than reloading nine times out of ten there is another accuracy node just above so-called book Max which in reality is far below what a rifle cartridge combination can digest load data is exactly that just something used for thousands of rifles in the same Calibre we're caution runs the day .
Just pick up half a dozen different reloading manuals in some calibres I have seen as much as 3 grains difference in maxload

[deye243]

And if your chasing accuracy youll usually find something under a max load

All depends if you are talking about true maximum load for a given barrel or something thats read in a book they are vastly different every rifle barrel is different .

[northdude]

If you just want to punch paper at 100m or so you can do it with an accurate load at the lower end of the scale if your rifle has a node there which i have found mine seem to. Whats the point of burning more powder than you need to especially in these times where some of it is hard to come by, well over here anyway. Plus if you read the title of the thread I dont think you are chasing velocity using reduced youth loads???

[on_one_wheel]

It definitely makes sense to load low for a junior to help develop their skills without developing a flinch.

However I agree that finding a consistency at the highest velocity possible is highly beneficial, less hold over, less wind drift, better projectile performance (expansion) to increase effective hunting range.

I did load low for some years but have changed my tune, I load everything hot as possible now.

[bladeracer]

I doubt barrel life even enters into it. You don't drive your car at redline when you go to the shops, or 95% of all your driving. I don't see any reason to run a firearm at redline all the time either.

Would you buy a 22 250 or a 243 and seriously run it below 3000 feet per second with a light bullet performance cartridges are purchased just for one reason their performance your response to me sounds like you would buy a 222r and run it like a Rimfire what's the point .
Unless we lived in an even more retarded country than this one where you can only have one rifle.
And as for accuracy hand loading is completely different than reloading nine times out of ten there is another accuracy node just above so-called book Max which in reality is far below what a rifle cartridge combination can digest load data is exactly that just something used for thousands of rifles in the same Calibre we're caution runs the day .
Just pick up half a dozen different reloading manuals in some calibres I have seen as much as 3 grains difference in maxload

You mean like I do with the .204, .223 and .243 - and as I did with my .222 when I was a kid
In the rare situation I need a long shot I just drop in a full-noise round. For most of my shots I use reduced loads.
In the .204 I mainly use a 2400fps load, with a 4400fps load for long shots - I don't need to hit a fox with 4400 velocities when he's only 40m away. In the .223 I run around 1700fps generally but can drop in a 3300fps load when needed. In the .243 I have a very accurate 2000fps load for general use, but I can drop in a 3800fps load when I need it. I have a very accurate subsonic load for the 6.5x55mm that is tons of fun to shoot with.
I didn't own a chronograph when I was a kid but I was loading ammo that replicated low-subsonic .22LR, .22LR and WMR, as well as standard .222 loads.
The whole beauty of making your own ammo is that you can make it to perfectly suit the conditions you use it in.

Velocity is distance based.
The 4400fps load makes around 2400fps at 300m. Shooting a fox point blank with a 2400fps is the same result as shooting it at 300m with the full-noise load - the fox can't tell the difference.

There are nodes of accuracy throughout the charge range. There is generally no issue finding accuracy at much lower velocities, certainly sufficient accuracy for the ranges you use reduced loads at.

[northdude]

22lr match ammo as far as I know isnt in the hyper velocity end of the scale. Its pretty accurate as well for crappy low velocity stuff

[bladeracer]

22lr match ammo as far as I know isnt in the hyper velocity end of the scale. Its pretty accurate as well for crappy low velocity stuff

Almost all match-grade .22LR and Short is subsonic, but they do supersonic match loads as well. Accuracy is generally going to come from subsonic. You should be able to find a subsonic .22LR that can hold one-minute out to 100m.

[SCJ429]

22lr match ammo as far as I know isnt in the hyper velocity end of the scale. Its pretty accurate as well for crappy low velocity stuff

Rimfire shooters want to stay away from the transonic buffeting of their bullet so staying subsonic makes sense for them. For centrefire shooters, staying well above the sound barrier is not a problem except for long ranges. You could try winning a centrefire competition shooting at subsonic speed, I don't like your chances.

[bladeracer]

If you just want to punch paper at 100m or so you can do it with an accurate load at the lower end of the scale if your rifle has a node there which i have found mine seem to. Whats the point of burning more powder than you need to especially in these times where some of it is hard to come by, well over here anyway. Plus if you read the title of the thread I dont think you are chasing velocity using reduced youth loads???

I would think target shooting, at least for competitions, is the opposite a lot of the time, you want as much velocity as you can get to reduce the effect of wind. Reduced loads are more suited to hunting, just use bullets designed to function at the velocities you're working at.

[bradley33]

I found this by accident. But this topic often comes up so thought I'd post the link.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/reduced-rifle-loads

Subject will be a whole lot more useful again once we have pistol powders like in the article

[Oldbloke]

I found this by accident. But this topic often comes up so thought I'd post the link.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/reduced-rifle-loads

Subject will be a whole lot more useful again once we have pistol powders like in the article

Yes agree, but we can also use shotgun powders which is what I've been using for the few I reload for my 233 and also for cast bullets in a 3006.

From what I've read I believe you can use faster rifle powders also such as ar 2207 but I have no experience using that powder.

[bladeracer]

I found this by accident. But this topic often comes up so thought I'd post the link.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/reduced-rifle-loads

Subject will be a whole lot more useful again once we have pistol powders like in the article

Use AR2206H (H4895) for reduced loads. Not as efficient as Trailboss but readily available and very effective for reduced loads. When I was a kid I used IMR4198 in .222Rem right down to low-subsonic with 40gn bullets with zero issues as well.

[bladeracer]

Yes agree, but we can also use shotgun powders which is what I've been using for the few I reload for my 223 and also for cast bullets in a 3006.

From what I've read I believe you can use faster rifle powders also such as ar 2207 but I have no experience using that powder.

Shotgun powders are in the same boat as they're made on the same line as the pistol powders and fastest rifle powders.

[MtnMan]

Reduced loads are more suited to hunting, just use bullets designed to function at the velocities you're working at.

Therein lies the problem. Finding a bullet that will expand at the lower velocity.
Been tinkering with .222 rem reduced loads. Tried the Speer 40gr spire point #1017 because it was cheap enough that reloading .222 was less cost than the price of .22WMR. But they wouldn't expand even at 2500fps, which is way above 22wmr velocity.
I'm loathed to try those various fancy plastic tipped things because they are twice the price or more and that that defeats the cost saving exercise.
I'm currently trying the Speer 46gr flat nose #1024 bullet designed for 218 Bee. These are cheap too at $30/100. There is nothing else even close to that price.

Someone needs to sell 40gr JHP 22WMR projectiles.

[Oldbloke]

Mtnman

"Someone needs to sell 40gr JHP 22WMR projectiles." Yes, I believe they were very popular.

However,

Lee do a mould 55gr .225

If you powder coat you will get those velocities. First 150 bullets you cast will pay for the mould.

[Oldbloke]

Here.

Resized_tempFileForShare_20221104-084840_2027460293966.jpeg (280.24 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

[bladeracer]

Reduced loads are more suited to hunting, just use bullets designed to function at the velocities you're working at.

Therein lies the problem. Finding a bullet that will expand at the lower velocity.
Been tinkering with .222 rem reduced loads. Tried the Speer 40gr spire point #1017 because it was cheap enough that reloading .222 was less cost than the price of .22WMR. But they wouldn't expand even at 2500fps, which is way above 22wmr velocity.
I'm loathed to try those various fancy plastic tipped things because they are twice the price or more and that that defeats the cost saving exercise.
I'm currently trying the Speer 46gr flat nose #1024 bullet designed for 218 Bee. These are cheap too at $30/100. There is nothing else even close to that price.

Someone needs to sell 40gr JHP 22WMR projectiles.

In the larger calibres use pistol bullets, but it is a problem in the smaller calibres. The semi-jacketed Winchester soft-point and hollow-point 40gn .224" bullet was excellent, and cheaper than dirt. Hornet bullets are probably worth trying, the 30gn and 33gn from Speer for example. Anything pointed I think is unlikely to deform within the inch or so of a rabbit at sub-1600fps velocities, filing off the point and drilling a large cavity into it may help. I have the 46gn bullets but haven't done any sort of deformation testing.

Are you recovering undeformed bullets from small game or looking for deformation in a different medium?

[MtnMan]

Pencil holing on dingo sized stuff even when making them into hollow points. Not recovering the bullet as it passes through.

[bladeracer]

Pencil holing on dingo sized stuff even when making them into hollow points. Not recovering the bullet as it passes through.

Seems odd as it doesn't strike me as a very tough bullet.
BC is about the same as .22LR though so launched at 2500fps it's down to 1900fps at 100m and 1600fps at 150m. Are you using them at close range?
The big flat meplat of the 46gn should work better. But the BC is horrendous so launched at 2500fps it's down to 1600fps within 100m
Can you get the 33gn TNT?
Ballistic tips might work better as the tip acts an expansion initiator as it gets pushed into the cavity. The 35gn, 40gn or 50gn VMax would be worth trying as they're designed to function down to 1600fps. About 50-cents apiece though. The BC is so much better though, launching the 40gn at 2500fps it's still above 1600fps past 200m. You have the same amount of bang, but potentially much better performance.

[Oldbloke]

I find that odd too.
I've shot a couple of foxes, say 70 yards with these doing about 2000fps @ the muzzle. Dead as a door nail. Both bang flops.

Hornady 55 gn SP #2265 - BC .235

[MtnMan]

This load is for shooting inside 100m so poor BC doesn't bother me. Quieter shooting on smaller blocks without stuff running away with pencil holes in them is what I after, all while being cheap.

I have a 50gr bullet load for up to 300m shots.

[MtnMan]

The Speer product description for that #1017 40gr says "for those that prefer controlled penetration over explosive expansion" or words to that effect.
Might be designed to be a bit 'hard' at hornet velocities. ??

Certainly not explosive from my experience.

[Oldbloke]

"Product Overview

When you’d prefer controlled expansion over explosive terminal effects, choose Speer® Varmint Soft Points. Their Spitzer tip provides both accuracy and superior terminal performance.

Great on-game performanceControlled-expansion bullet that minimizes pelt damageSpitzer, soft point, flat nose and semi-Spitzer designs"

Can you cut one in half and post a pic?

[MtnMan]

No, Have since sold them