Annealing. How critical is it really?

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Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2023, 3:54 pm

Soo, like a few I just anneal using a gas torch, DIY case holder and drill method. 5 or 6 seconds till they turn grey/blue does the job.

As usual yanks are long winded. :shock: This bloke tries 10, 15, then 20 seconds.

See the result. It might surprise you.

A few bench rest experts might disagree, I don't know.


https://youtu.be/9HfjRKrbYbo
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by bigpete » 02 Jan 2023, 4:43 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Soo, like a few I just anneal using a gas torch, DIY case holder and drill method. 5 or 6 seconds till they turn grey/blue does the job.

As usual yanks are long winded. :shock: This bloke tries 10, 15, then 20 seconds.

See the result. It might surprise you.

A few bench rest experts might disagree, I don't know.


https://youtu.be/9HfjRKrbYbo


I've never annealed a case yet....
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Post by No1Mk3 » 02 Jan 2023, 5:06 pm

I anneal every brass after every shoot, it helps maintain consistency of neck grip but most of all it increases case life. I very seldom shoot past 500m these days so I'm not as finicky as I should be. Didn't watch the vid as I have seen most of Erik's videos, the man has been one of the worlds top F-Class shooters for many years and really knows the long range game well.
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Post by Billo » 02 Jan 2023, 7:38 pm

Yeap annealing is a regular part of reloading for me. Hunting rifle gets it every 2nd firing, target rifle every time.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2023, 8:13 pm

I went many years without annealing. Now about every 3rd firing. Or when I feel like it.
The thing is, judging by that YouTube looks like how you do it is far from critical.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by in2anity » 02 Jan 2023, 8:27 pm

Oh from a target shooting perspective- believe me it’s critical. Reasons already mentioned.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Post by northdude » 02 Jan 2023, 8:30 pm

I never used to anneal until I started playing with my grendel. I started getting a lot of neck splits so bought an annealer and started annealing my grendel brass and haven't had neck splits since. Its also good for ex mil 303 bras that I use.
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Post by Madang185 » 02 Jan 2023, 10:10 pm

Started annealing about 10 years ago, the basic method is by hand using a small gas torch- about 7 seconds.

Anneal every case each time it comes across the bench, perhaps one split neck per year.

Case life greatly extended; noticeable improvement in overall accuracy, 12 or more different calibers.

Suggest; the best singular improvement in reloading for many years.

Often three shot groups will have two shots of identical velocity.

It might be suggested as time-consuming, if so I will pay the price any day,
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Post by wanneroo » 03 Jan 2023, 12:42 am

I think it's one of those reloading processes where you have to ask whether the juice is worth the squeeze. The benefits are there but it is time consuming.and you have to get it right. There are a few machines here for sale in the USA that can help speed up the process and make it consistent and if I did it, i'd have to do that.

For me all the semi auto actions I have, some beat the hell out of the brass and then brass gets lost in the dirt or whatever getting flung all over. I'd say on average every time I shoot about 5% of my brass goes missing on my own range. As a result, if I get 3-4 loadings out of a rifle case I'm pretty happy.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Blr243 » 03 Jan 2023, 5:01 pm

I have never annealed a case either but I understand enought about heat and metallurgy to know that i do see it as a good case life improver . But most of my bottleneck cases are common like 308 and 243, so i alresdy have tons of cases cases are cheap and i dont load the hot side And i only ever bump size so i only ever throw out a case that lookslike its had a hard life every two or three years. So not worth it forme to worry about extending caselife and case neck tension consistency not critical for me either. I m not target shooter or long range bunny man
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jan 2023, 5:02 pm

Interesting comments. Did anyone actually watch the YouTube video?

He cooked the guts out of them and tests indicate necks and shoulders will likely still be ok. Hence the title of the thread.
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Post by Billo » 03 Jan 2023, 6:10 pm

Ive seen the video before and Ive ' overcooked at 10secs ' LOL and still shot 0.2 moa :drinks:
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by northdude » 04 Jan 2023, 7:42 am

I watched it man the yanks can take a long time to get to the point
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Post by Wyliecoyote » 04 Jan 2023, 6:47 pm

Things have changed regarding annealing over recent years. Years ago you bought cases and when the first neck split after say somewhere between 5 to 10 reloads, you dumped the lot in the bin if indeed the primer pockets hadn't already rendered them useless.
Now with annealing more common it is possible to greatly extend case life providing you keep pressures below those where pockets start to yield. For target shooters this is a good thing where full length sizing or some form of body sizing is done after every firing. For hunters it may be something to do to kill time or spend money on any number of contraptions now available. Either way it does save on brass costs down the road.
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Post by in2anity » 04 Jan 2023, 8:44 pm

Well said Wylie, couldn’t agree more.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by northdude » 05 Jan 2023, 7:07 am

22 hornets and most things 6.5
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Post by Oldbloke » 05 Jan 2023, 1:37 pm

northdude wrote:https://youtube.com/shorts/vzHDY2IklCg?feature=share


And the point is?
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by northdude » 05 Jan 2023, 1:58 pm

ummm a thread about annealing??? can try and delete it if you want
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Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2023, 4:29 pm

northdude wrote:ummm a thread about annealing??? can try and delete it if you want


OB really wanted us to look at the specifics of this video. Erik deliberately over-annealled brass (if such is possible) and tested to see if it made any difference at the target. The video isn't actually about annealing itself but whether there is a time limit past which the brass is destroyed.
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Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Jan 2023, 4:57 pm

Iv deliberately over cooked brass to the point it's turned to copper and found it was so soft it collapsed at the shoulder like a piano accordion just trying to neck size it... surprise surprise
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Post by Oldbloke » 05 Jan 2023, 5:03 pm

bladeracer wrote:
northdude wrote:ummm a thread about annealing??? can try and delete it if you want


OB really wanted us to look at the specifics of this video. Erik deliberately over-annealled brass (if such is possible) and tested to see if it made any difference at the target. The video isn't actually about annealing itself but whether there is a time limit past which the brass is destroyed.


Thx BR, correct.
And the test indicates (unsure if it is proven beyond doubt) that rough enough is good enough. And spending big bucks on expensive anealers is for most a complete waste of money. (Unless very large numbers of cases are being processed)

I know its long winded, but, watch the video.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Jan 2023, 5:04 pm

Billo wrote:Ive seen the video before and Ive ' overcooked at 10secs ' LOL and still shot 0.2 moa :drinks:


Why am I not surprised?
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Billo » 05 Jan 2023, 6:49 pm

Hey Oldbloke started using some very expensive Peterson brass for my 243 recently, stuff came annealed and perfectly prepped, 2 firings and 1 neck split before I had a chance to anneal. For quality brass i have never had a failure that quickly. Im currently doing a 7 sec burn with the torch. :drinks:
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Jan 2023, 7:02 pm

Billo wrote:Hey Oldbloke started using some very expensive Peterson brass for my 243 recently, stuff came annealed and perfectly prepped, 2 firings and 1 neck split before I had a chance to anneal. For quality brass i have never had a failure that quickly. Im currently doing a 7 sec burn with the torch. :drinks:


7 seconds sounds about right.

For me with a small torch.
223 5 seconds
30.06 about 6 or 7 seconds. From memory.

In a half dark shed, just until it turns blue, and dump. Sometimes if I'm a bit slow a very a slight red ting.

But this bloke (erik) heated them to a very werr bright red.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by in2anity » 05 Jan 2023, 8:08 pm

Billo wrote:Hey Oldbloke started using some very expensive Peterson brass for my 243 recently, stuff came annealed and perfectly prepped, 2 firings and 1 neck split before I had a chance to anneal. For quality brass i have never had a failure that quickly. Im currently doing a 7 sec burn with the torch. :drinks:

Even fancy brass isn’t immune to split necks. Seems to be a bit random. Just inspect and toss. That is the way for high turnover reloading. I feel a dirty die can contribute to neck splitting - scratches compromise the neck.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Jan 2023, 2:48 am

in2anity wrote:
Billo wrote:Hey Oldbloke started using some very expensive Peterson brass for my 243 recently, stuff came annealed and perfectly prepped, 2 firings and 1 neck split before I had a chance to anneal. For quality brass i have never had a failure that quickly. Im currently doing a 7 sec burn with the torch. :drinks:

Even fancy brass isn’t immune to split necks. Seems to be a bit random. Just inspect and toss. That is the way for high turnover reloading. I feel a dirty die can contribute to neck splitting - scratches compromise the neck.


That makes sense to me. Bit like point loading. Or a small tear in cloth, it creates a starting point.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by Barbarian » 08 Jan 2023, 12:04 am

Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
northdude wrote:ummm a thread about annealing??? can try and delete it if you want


OB really wanted us to look at the specifics of this video. Erik deliberately over-annealled brass (if such is possible) and tested to see if it made any difference at the target. The video isn't actually about annealing itself but whether there is a time limit past which the brass is destroyed.


Thx BR, correct.
And the test indicates (unsure if it is proven beyond doubt) that rough enough is good enough. And spending big bucks on expensive anealers is for most a complete waste of money. (Unless very large numbers of cases are being processed)

I know its long winded, but, watch the video.


I mean EK knows his stuff, his videos helped me plenty when I got into reloading.

I've just been using a torch with a jig for my drill but I've mostly just been saving up for an amp machine to get rid off the hastle of needing to get extra gas bottles. I wouldn't bother with any of the other gas based annealing machines.
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by phill55phill » 18 Jan 2023, 7:56 am

Never neaded to do it even when pushing above recommended loads don't need to full length resize either just wasting your time for hunting
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Re: Annealing. How critical is it really?

Post by JohnV » 18 Jan 2023, 7:05 pm

Statements about full length resizing is risky . Different cartridge case designs need more or less sizing than others and load pressures vary also . There is no one rule fits all . You size as much of the case as you need or in a way that you need to obtain reliable chambering and minimal head clearance . When a gun and load combination is very accurate you can generally see accuracy fall off as the necks get variably harder . Annealing brings them back into a more even hardness and into a condition less likely to get case neck splits . Guns that shoot only average size groups you probably can't see the accuracy loss on the target from hardening necks anyway . I would not say it's critical but it does help case life especially if using expander ball type sizing dies which work the case neck hard .
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