243 Winchester loads

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

243 Winchester loads

Post by Nath__111 » 04 Mar 2023, 10:04 am

Hi all, I am about to start loading and testing some of my 243 Winchester loads as I haven’t done any reloading before I thought I’d just run a couple of questions by you guys. So my cases have all been de-primed, sized and cleaned and are ready to start reloading.

I am going to be running 87g hornady v-max projectiles with AR2209 powder and I have both Cci and federal primers so I am going to do 6 of each load weight with 3 being Cci and the other 3 being federal primers to see if there is much of a difference.

The load data I have is starting weight 39 grain minimum and 43.5 grain maximum. I got this information off ADI’s website and I just wanted to run it by you guys to check that this is correct as i can’t find any other load data anywhere.

The other two questions I have is:
How far into the case is the correct primer seating depth?
And the other questions is:
Do I lube the projectiles when pressing them into the brass and if so what lube do you Recommend / use.

As always any help is always greatly appreciated. Cheers guys.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by bladeracer » 04 Mar 2023, 10:10 am

Nath__111 wrote:Hi all, I am about to start loading and testing some of my 243 Winchester loads as I haven’t done any reloading before I thought I’d just run a couple of questions by you guys. So my cases have all been de-primed, sized and cleaned and are ready to start reloading.

I am going to be running 87g hornady v-max projectiles with AR2209 powder and I have both Cci and federal primers so I am going to do 6 of each load weight with 3 being Cci and the other 3 being federal primers to see if there is much of a difference.

The load data I have is starting weight 39 grain minimum and 43.5 grain maximum. I got this information off ADI’s website and I just wanted to run it by you guys to check that this is correct as i can’t find any other load data anywhere.

The other two questions I have is:
How far into the case is the correct primer seating depth?
And the other questions is:
Do I lube the projectiles when pressing them into the brass and if so what lube do you Recommend / use.

As always any help is always greatly appreciated. Cheers guys.


You want the primer just below the face of the case head. I prefer to cut my primer pockets so they're all the same depth, diameter, and to take the curve out of the bottom edge. I also chamfer the top edge of the primer pocket to make for smooth seating.

No, do not lube the bullets. Chamfer the case mouth, and again after every trim, this allows most bullets to slide into the case. Some bullets with sharp base edges might require flaring the case mouth and crimping after seating the bullet, but this is usually only needed with cast bullets.

If you are neck-sizing, every time you fire the brass, confirm that it still chambers easily in the rifle before you reload it. Eventually the shoulder will be pushed forward enough that it will make chambering tight, and the shoulder will require bumping back in the FLS die.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Blr243 » 04 Mar 2023, 1:55 pm

Blade covered most of it. Each time the exposion occurs inside , and as the case expands slightly lengthways theres some funny things goin on with the molecules in the brass and with the metalurgy . Someone might be able to explain it better. Gradually the case walls Become ever so thinner as brass flows forward and if u carefully monitor the thickness of the necks , over time the necks become thicker So that when a bullet is seated , and then chambered extra tension is on the bullet , esp with a tight and or newish chamber . Sometimes this extra tension is harder for the burning powder to push the bullet out and pressure could rise to a possible dangerous level. Some calibres are worse than others for what i csll forward brass flow. 243 win is one of them. I have deslt with this by outside neck turning .. it takes a while of constantly reloading the same cases for this to occur but its wotth knowing about and being aware of
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by No1Mk3 » 04 Mar 2023, 3:31 pm

I used to load 87g V-Max with 2209 using WLR, if you stick to published data you can't go wrong, just remember one source may publish different data than another based on how their liability lawyers see things. All published data however is safe in all brands and models of firearm in that calibre and does not exceed SAAMI or CIP Maximum. When starting reloading be conservative and follow the book, but just to give an indication of where you could go in time when you learn to look for excess pressure signs my load, fired in a Ruger 77 VT, with the 87g V-Max was 46.0g of AR2209, very accurate in my rifle at 500yds. My current load is Hornady ELD-X 90g with 43.0g of 2209 again using Winchester Large Rifle primers. I only do a minimal case mouth chamfer as both the Hornadys listed are boat-tails and enter easy but I do anneal every load.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Billo » 04 Mar 2023, 5:41 pm

Gday Nath_111 Ive been shooting my Ruger 243 a bit lately with 2209 and Hornady 87gr Vmax

I found a sweet spot with 2209 at 44.0gr and also another accuracy node at 45.0gr (3250fps). I've ended up shooting the low node just to lengthen the brass and barrel life. :thumbsup:

Overall case length with the projectile is 2.690. :drinks:
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by SCJ429 » 04 Mar 2023, 6:01 pm

The correct depth for your primer is that it bottoms out in the primer pocket. You should be able to feel it as you push it in with your seating tool. It should not be proud of the case base.

I leave the carbon on the inside of the neck from the previous firing and it acts as a little friction reducer for the pill. Unfired or cleaned brass is very grippy and adds to neck tension. To reduce that I dip the necks in graphite powder before seating the projectile. You don't need to do this, I do this for consistency.

I wouldn't bother testing one primer with another, I use CCI, and you won't see amazing improvement one over the other. Just use one type and stick to it.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by JohnV » 04 Mar 2023, 7:18 pm

As above when you seat a primer you should be able to feel the primer skirt seat down onto the base of the primer pocket . Seating flush or just below the case head is not technically correct although it may work ok . However many misfires are caused by not seating the primer firmly down . A good way to get that seating feel and precision seating is to use a Sinclair International ( Brownells ) primer pocket uni-former .https://www.brownells.com/reloading/cas ... r-adaptor/
Everything else seems ok to me . I did a fair bit of experimenting years back with primers and I found that the WLR primer gave better accuracy in my 243 with AR 2209 than Federal 210 . However the opposite occurred in my 308 using AR2208 and AR2206 . Got me F*cked why and probably not applicable to other guns .
WLR primer has a much bigger flash than a Federal 210 .
Polish the inside of the necks with some fine steel wool wrapped on an old worn bore brush , chucked in an electric screw driver.
Go steady and it cleans up and polishes inside the neck nicely so seating projectiles is better and more consistent bullet release . To extract every bit of accuracy you should also look into skim neck turning and partial neck sizing for a factory chamber once you get your hand loading perfected . I also did 10 year long test that proved that Moly coated bullets display more consistent neck release and especially on stored rounds . 10 years stored rounds showed no sign of neck welding on the moly bullets all the others were rat s**t in one way or another .
Last edited by JohnV on 08 Mar 2023, 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Nath__111 » 07 Mar 2023, 5:05 pm

Thanks heaps guys for all you information and reply’s I really appreciate it. I’ll definitely take all the information on board and see how I go. I’ll let you know how I go and my results once I’m done and have shot a few. Again thanks heaps guys, cheers.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by JohnV » 23 Mar 2023, 3:52 pm

SCJ429 wrote:The correct depth for your primer is that it bottoms out in the primer pocket. You should be able to feel it as you push it in with your seating tool. It should not be proud of the case base.

I leave the carbon on the inside of the neck from the previous firing and it acts as a little friction reducer for the pill. Unfired or cleaned brass is very grippy and adds to neck tension. To reduce that I dip the necks in graphite powder before seating the projectile. You don't need to do this, I do this for consistency.

I wouldn't bother testing one primer with another, I use CCI, and you won't see amazing improvement one over the other. Just use one type and stick to it.

That carbon and other chemicals on the inside of the neck only works as a friction modifier for a short time . Left like that for extended storage it eats into the bullet and you get varying degrees of neck welding . Which gives worse results . It's not a good idea and clean necks is a better loading technique overall . If you want to do something better than that proper Pure Moly coating will work good . It reduces bullet release variables and resists neck welding for years and years .
This is an image of a bullet seated in a dirty neck that developed neck welding . You can see how the case brass has started to combine with the jacket gilding metal . The force needed to pull this bullet was huge and I had to use a collet puller .
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Mar 2023, 6:57 pm

How long ago was this case loaded? It wasn't carbon that caused this. Carbon does not react with copper or brass. Clean brass is difficult to get consistent neck tension, go to any benchrest comp and see who uses freshly cleaned brass, absolutely no one. Up to you if you don't like graphite powder, just a trace of carbon from the previous firing works well.
As for moly, all power to you if you are a fan but the rest of the accuracy shooters have moved on 20 years ago. No advantage and a waste of time and effort.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by geoff » 24 Mar 2023, 7:45 am

Nath__111 wrote:Thanks heaps guys for all you information and reply’s I really appreciate it. I’ll definitely take all the information on board and see how I go. I’ll let you know how I go and my results once I’m done and have shot a few. Again thanks heaps guys, cheers.


Welcome to the edge of the rabbit hole. Once you get in a rhythm reloading and you've got it figured out, you won't go back.

Don't listen too much to all of the niche arguments that come out of benchrest shooting - if you're making ammo to shoot in a hunting or noncompetitive target type shooting and you're going to use it fairly soon after loading.....just load and shoot. There will be plenty of time later for the esoteric debates about which way to do what is better.

The biggest thing is consistency. There's a million ways to skin a cat but just pick what works for you and do that, all the time, for every case. If you land on seating your primers a particular way, great, just do it that way all the time. Get your dies setup and sizing well....then leave them alone unless something changes with your brass.

The 243 is notorious for being a bit of a case stretcher - get a good pair of vernier or digital calipers and look up on YouTube how to use them properly. Measure your sized case length and trim anything that's more than 5 to 10 thou out of spec. I shoot my 243 a lot, about 50 rounds a week, and I find the ADI cases need a trim every 3rd or 4th firing when I'm lobbing 87 Vmax at 3100fps with 2209.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by JohnV » 24 Mar 2023, 9:25 am

SCJ429 wrote:How long ago was this case loaded? It wasn't carbon that caused this. Carbon does not react with copper or brass. Clean brass is difficult to get consistent neck tension, go to any benchrest comp and see who uses freshly cleaned brass, absolutely no one. Up to you if you don't like graphite powder, just a trace of carbon from the previous firing works well.
As for moly, all power to you if you are a fan but the rest of the accuracy shooters have moved on 20 years ago. No advantage and a waste of time and effort.
It's not just about accuracy there is other reasons and as I said it only works short term , it is a waste of time for those who want't clean it out all the time but that's not how to use it . You are obviously not interested in anything else other than your view so I will save my breath any further .
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by animalpest » 24 Mar 2023, 9:42 am

JohnV what are the "other reasons"?.
Just curious
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Mar 2023, 10:46 am

Here's one for the experts.
When I FLS my cases I put a tiny amount of lube inside the neck. Diff oil in the past, lately using coconut oil. :D

I don't bother cleaning it out. Will that matter?
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by bladeracer » 24 Mar 2023, 12:45 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here's one for the experts.
When I FLS my cases I put a tiny amount of lube inside the neck. Diff oil in the past, lately using coconut oil. :D

I don't bother cleaning it out. Will that matter?


I use the Lee "lube in a tube" and I've never cleaned it out, I don't think it reacts in any way with powder. I put a smear of lube on my finger and wipe some barely visible vertical stripes down the case, then touch the case mouth to it. Never had one stick in a die (yet) out of many hundreds in a bunch of different chamberings.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Mar 2023, 6:11 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here's one for the experts.
When I FLS my cases I put a tiny amount of lube inside the neck. Diff oil in the past, lately using coconut oil. :D

I don't bother cleaning it out. Will that matter?

Not saying I am an expert but if you are using dies with an expanded ball you will need a bit of lube to get the ball back through the neck without having to use a lot of force and possibly bending you necks. A small amount of residual lube is not going to have a ton of influence in your loads but I would find another way to resize with bushing dies.
I bet you loads smell nice if you are using coconut oil :D
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Mar 2023, 6:33 pm

JohnV wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:How long ago was this case loaded? It wasn't carbon that caused this. Carbon does not react with copper or brass. Clean brass is difficult to get consistent neck tension, go to any benchrest comp and see who uses freshly cleaned brass, absolutely no one. Up to you if you don't like graphite powder, just a trace of carbon from the previous firing works well.
As for moly, all power to you if you are a fan but the rest of the accuracy shooters have moved on 20 years ago. No advantage and a waste of time and effort.
It's not just about accuracy there is other reasons and as I said it only works short term , it is a waste of time for those who want't clean it out all the time but that's not how to use it . You are obviously not interested in anything else other than your view so I will save my breath any further .

Yes I agree with you there John, when it comes to moly coating, save your breath to cool your porridge. No one is going to be convinced that it worth the effort. I had a go with it years ago. Did everything I knew how it get it to work and went back to naked bullets.
Like I said, if it works for you, great I am happy for you. :drinks:
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Mar 2023, 8:32 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Here's one for the experts.
When I FLS my cases I put a tiny amount of lube inside the neck. Diff oil in the past, lately using coconut oil. :D

I don't bother cleaning it out. Will that matter?

Not saying I am an expert but if you are using dies with an expanded ball you will need a bit of lube to get the ball back through the neck without having to use a lot of force and possibly bending you necks. A small amount of residual lube is not going to have a ton of influence in your loads but I would find another way to resize with bushing dies.
I bet you loads smell nice if you are using coconut oil :D


Yep, just using the basic two dies sets. FL and seating.

It's been suggested it could effect the loads but I reckon such a minute amount would do SFA.

Yea, when I use coconut oil I want to eat them. But I used lanolin once I had a strong urge to migrate to NZ with a bag full of condoms. :allegedly: :lol:
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by geoff » 24 Mar 2023, 11:36 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Here's one for the experts.
When I FLS my cases I put a tiny amount of lube inside the neck. Diff oil in the past, lately using coconut oil. :D

I don't bother cleaning it out. Will that matter?

Not saying I am an expert but if you are using dies with an expanded ball you will need a bit of lube to get the ball back through the neck without having to use a lot of force and possibly bending you necks. A small amount of residual lube is not going to have a ton of influence in your loads but I would find another way to resize with bushing dies.
I bet you loads smell nice if you are using coconut oil :D


Yep, just using the basic two dies sets. FL and seating.

It's been suggested it could effect the loads but I reckon such a minute amount would do SFA.

Yea, when I use coconut oil I want to eat them. But I used lanolin once I had a strong urge to migrate to NZ with a bag full of condoms. :allegedly: :lol:


I have made my own lanolin case lube recently and boy howdy does that smell get on everything too! It's kinda like diesel in the way that it just gets on surfaces and spreads everywhere
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by JohnV » 25 Mar 2023, 3:19 pm

If there is any residue of oil inside a case neck it can cause powder bridges when you run the powder charge into the case .
There is no need to use any kind of wet lube for neck sizing . Use a dry lube made up of 50% lock graphite available from lock smiths and 50% " fine grade" Moly powder usually available from bearing suppliers . Mix it well together and put it in a tobacco tin with some 2 to BB size steel ball bearings depending on caliber . Rub your fingers around the case neck then dip it in and out of the tin a few times . Once the die has done a few the die gets coated and the sizing process gets smoother , straighter , and less work hardening on the brass . Moly and Graphite does not harm powder charge in any way . I have done many thousands that way in my time . If you separate neck and body sizing operations it makes lubrication much easier. Dry lube on the neck and a wet lube or spray on the body , just roll the case on a lube pad and it's done then size with Redding body die or if you can't buy a body die for an unusual cartridge , cut the head off the FLS die just 10 mm longer than the case and drill the neck out from the " inside " .010 larger neck diameter than your " loaded round " neck diameter . Inspect inside , clean up any burs and voila custom body die . The body die never touches the case neck but can bump the shoulder back but it is so easy to use . If a case gets stuck which it never will it's dead easy to tap it out with punch rod and hammer . You may have to buy a neck size only die if you only had a FLS die .
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Mar 2023, 6:10 pm

JohnV wrote:If there is any residue of oil inside a case neck it can cause powder bridges when you run the powder charge into the case .
There is no need to use any kind of wet lube for neck sizing . Use a dry lube made up of 50% lock graphite available from lock smiths and 50% " fine grade" Moly powder usually available from bearing suppliers . Mix it well together and put it in a tobacco tin with some 2 to BB size steel ball bearings depending on caliber . Rub your fingers around the case neck then dip it in and out of the tin a few times . Once the die has done a few the die gets coated and the sizing process gets smoother , straighter , and less work hardening on the brass . Moly and Graphite does not harm powder charge in any way . I have done many thousands that way in my time . If you separate neck and body sizing operations it makes lubrication much easier. Dry lube on the neck and a wet lube or spray on the body , just roll the case on a lube pad and it's done then size with Redding body die or if you can't buy a body die for an unusual cartridge , cut the head off the FLS die just 10 mm longer than the case and drill the neck out from the " inside " .010 larger neck diameter than your " loaded round " neck diameter . Inspect inside , clean up any burs and voila custom body die . The body die never touches the case neck but can bump the shoulder back but it is so easy to use . If a case gets stuck which it never will it's dead easy to tap it out with punch rod and hammer . You may have to buy a neck size only die if you only had a FLS die .


Oh dear,

I FLS and have no intention to neck size...period..

So forget graphite.

What is the negative if a tiny amount of lube is left in the case neck?
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by bladeracer » 25 Mar 2023, 8:34 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Oh dear,

I FLS and have no intention to neck size...period..

So forget graphite.

What is the negative if a tiny amount of lube is left in the case neck?


As long as it doesn't effect the powder there is no negative.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by Wapiti » 07 May 2023, 6:21 pm

I FLS every time as all my ammo is fired on the farm and need to never have any hesitations. I haven't had ANY less life from my cases, unless I've screwed up by sizing the case too much and bumping the shoulder back too far and causing excessive headspace/brass flowing forward.

With 87gn VMax's so cheap from a gunshop in Qld recently, my wife used them a lot. We used 2209 and has very good accuracy, however I got a tip from a local commercial ammo maker and he was using 2208... As we use it for our bolt action .308's I thought I'd give it a go and bugger me it shot just as nice.
The guff is that 2208 drops a bit of velocity in the 243 Win, but this isn't a consideration really.

I've given up chasing velocity by using a chrony, even a few 100 FPS makes no difference shooting ferals. For us anyway.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by northdude » 07 May 2023, 8:52 pm

geoff wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Here's one for the experts.
When I FLS my cases I put a tiny amount of lube inside the neck. Diff oil in the past, lately using coconut oil. :D

I don't bother cleaning it out. Will that matter?

Not saying I am an expert but if you are using dies with an expanded ball you will need a bit of lube to get the ball back through the neck without having to use a lot of force and possibly bending you necks. A small amount of residual lube is not going to have a ton of influence in your loads but I would find another way to resize with bushing dies.
I bet you loads smell nice if you are using coconut oil :D


Yep, just using the basic two dies sets. FL and seating.

It's been suggested it could effect the loads but I reckon such a minute amount would do SFA.

Yea, when I use coconut oil I want to eat them. But I used lanolin once I had a strong urge to migrate to NZ with a bag full of condoms. :allegedly: :lol:


I have made my own lanolin case lube recently and boy howdy does that smell get on everything too! It's kinda like diesel in the way that it just gets on surfaces and spreads everywhere

Did you use lanolin and ipa. What ratio did you mix it at?
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by northdude » 08 May 2023, 8:14 am

If this is a hunting rifle id be surprised if you could see a difference in accuracy between the 2 different primers everything else being equal. Try playing with projectile seating depth
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by GQshayne » 08 May 2023, 7:59 pm

I bought a small tub of Hornady One Shot case sizing wax a while back. I reckon it is hard to beat.
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Re: 243 Winchester loads

Post by JohnV » 23 Jun 2023, 11:33 am

animalpest wrote:JohnV what are the "other reasons"?.
Just curious

Reduced cleaning . I have fired on occasions between 200 and 300 shots without needing to clean and accuracy stayed good . Reduced barrel wear due to the coating reducing fire cracking in the barrel steel . As I said before If you keep cleaning the moly out frequently like every 30 shots or so it can't do it's job . There is also a slight BC increase due to the Moly reducing rifling marks and small extrusions at the ends of the rifling marks on flat base bullets . Does not happen so much on a boat tail because the rifling grooves don't get to the base edge .
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