powder coating

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powder coating

Post by Kaid » 22 Mar 2023, 12:04 pm

+HI Guys Been trying to powder coat some lead projectiles but no matter what I do powder will not stick to the projectile..Tried shaking for over a minute in plastic container tried using mild heat, also tried WD 40 and various other sprays but will not stick.The brand of powder I am using is Static and when I contacted the manufacture they told me to buy a powder gun which nobody else seems to use on youtube, maybe I have purchased the wrong powder?
Any advise you can give will be greatly appreciated
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Re: powder coating

Post by bladeracer » 22 Mar 2023, 12:41 pm

Kaid wrote:+HI Guys Been trying to powder coat some lead projectiles but no matter what I do powder will not stick to the projectile..Tried shaking for over a minute in plastic container tried using mild heat, also tried WD 40 and various other sprays but will not stick.The brand of powder I am using is Static and when I contacted the manufacture they told me to buy a powder gun which nobody else seems to use on youtube, maybe I have purchased the wrong powder?
Any advise you can give will be greatly appreciated


Have you handled the bullets at all? I have had issues when I've touched bullets so I prefer to drop them from the mould and PC right away or drop them into plastic boxes to store them so I never touch them.

I was told putting plastic BB's into the shake box helps build static, so I ordered a bag of BB's and they were seized by customs as "illegal ammunition" :-)
I fill my shooting bags with plastic pellets but have never thought to try those as I generally get good coverage already.
I've also heard of putting some acetone (I think) in with the powder but haven't tried that.

No idea on the brand, I use Eastwood from PPC here in Oz.

These are your own bullets, not commercial ones?
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Re: powder coating

Post by Kaid » 22 Mar 2023, 2:44 pm

I have tried using 4mm steel balls and washed bullets in acetone and white spirit. Was given some powder of a different brand and it coved better but did not cover completely. might try Eastwood
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Re: powder coating

Post by JohnV » 22 Mar 2023, 5:27 pm

I have looked at powder coating and am not interested . There is no real scientific evidence it does anything useful .
I stay with Moly coating as it has proved itself and there is a mountain of scientific evidence on it's properties and what it does and it's limitations . NASA even did experiments with Moly in outer space .
Soak the bullets in a 1/2 liter of warm water ( warm only ) containing 1/2 cup of CLR for 5 minutes . Then wash off in very hot water and let them dry .
Then wash the bullets in white spirit ( Shelllite) , let them dry . Then coat . Don't handle the bullets at any point in the process use clean forceps or very large tweezers to handle the bullets . If they don't coat then the alloy is contaminated in some way .
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Re: powder coating

Post by bladeracer » 22 Mar 2023, 5:41 pm

JohnV wrote:I have looked at powder coating and am not interested . There is no real scientific evidence it does anything useful .
I stay with Moly coating as it has proved itself and there is a mountain of scientific evidence on it's properties and what it does and it's limitations . NASA even did experiments with Moly in outer space .
Soak the bullets in a 1/2 liter of warm water ( warm only ) containing 1/2 cup of CLR for 5 minutes . Then wash off in very hot water and let them dry .
Then wash the bullets in white spirit ( Shelllite) , let them dry . Then coat . Don't handle the bullets at any point in the process use clean forceps or very large tweezers to handle the bullets . If they don't coat then the alloy is contaminated in some way .


I have seen more anecdotal evidence against using moly than I have PC. PC has advantages in not requiring lube and preventing leading of the bore, as well as being able to bump under-size bullets up to size. PC is also very quick and simple. If you do it as part of your casting process it adds hardly any time to the session. Every one- or two-hundred bullets toss them in a tub with powder, shake for a minute then dump them onto a tray and put them in the preheated oven while you continue casting. When the alarm goes off remove them from the oven to cool.

Outer Edge Bullets are coated with something akin to moly and are filthy things to handle, no thanks. If I were only going to sit at a bench and load them singly straight from the box to the chamber I might consider moly but I can't see any advantage to it.
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Re: powder coating

Post by JohnV » 22 Mar 2023, 5:56 pm

Yes anecdotal BS . Pure Moly coating is just as easy once you know the right process . Does not sound like the OP is having a quick and simple time of it .
I doubt very much that the outer Edge bullets are actually MoS2 moly and when I use my process none of the moly comes off on your hands at all . Most people just don't know how to do it properly .
As a lube substitute powder coating probably works but that's about it . Proper Moly coating works as a lube , a friction modifier , a bore protector during firing , gives more consistent bullet release and it stops neck welding in long term stored rounds . However it must be used in a certain way . Like people who clean after every 20 shots or so will get little benefit as they are stopping the moly doing it's job . I conferred with NASA and National Laboratory Los Alamos NM USA to develop my understanding and process . I am not trying to convert anyone I was just saying I looked at powder coating and I'm not interested .
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Re: powder coating

Post by bladeracer » 22 Mar 2023, 6:05 pm

JohnV wrote:Yes anecdotal BS . Pure Moly coating is just as easy once you know the right process . Does not sound like the OP is having a quick and simple time of it .
I doubt very much that the outer Edge bullets are actually MoS2 moly and when I use my process none of the moly comes off on your hands at all . Most people just don't know how to do it properly .
As a lube substitute powder coating probably works but that's about it . Proper Moly coating works as a lube , a friction modifier , a bore protector during firing , gives more consistent bullet release and it stops neck welding in long term stored rounds . However it must be used in a certain way . Like people who clean after every 20 shots or so will get little benefit as they are stopping the moly doing it's job . I conferred with NASA and National Laboratory Los Alamos NM USA to develop my understanding and process . I am not trying to convert anyone I was just saying I looked at powder coating and I'm not interested .


Just to be clear you are moly-coating cast bullets, right?
I did PC some jacketed bullets purely to bump up their size but mainly PC is used on cast bullets.
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Re: powder coating

Post by JohnV » 22 Mar 2023, 6:22 pm

Cast bullets and jacketed bullets Moly works on both . However on a cast bullet you have to get a good deep coating for it to equal the lubrication ability of wax based lubes and that is the area that the thicker coat of powder coating would work ok .
The problem is it's too easy to get a black Moly colour on the bullet with a quick 5 minute tumble and then people think they have done a good job and it's not good . Even some experienced target shooters I have spoken to make this mistake and their coating is piss weak and basically useless and they also clean too often and Moly never gets to build any Lamellar structure in the bore , totally pointless .. This gives the process a bad name . When I took my 223 away I never cleaned for the whole shooting trip and have fired as many as 250 moly rounds with no cleaning and the accuracy does not drop off . Can PC do that ?
I clean it thoroughly when I get home and lube the bore as Moly will not stop corrosion because it's Lamellar structure can't exclude Oxygen and moisture from the steel like oil or grease can.
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Re: powder coating

Post by bladeracer » 22 Mar 2023, 6:51 pm

JohnV wrote:Cast bullets and jacketed bullets Moly works on both . However on a cast bullet you have to get a good deep coating for it to equal the lubrication ability of wax based lubes and that is the area that the thicker coat of powder coating would work ok .
The problem is it's too easy to get a black Moly colour on the bullet with a quick 5 minute tumble and then people think they have done a good job and it's not good . Even some experienced target shooters I have spoken to make this mistake and their coating is piss weak and basically useless and they also clean too often and Moly never gets to build any Lamellar structure in the bore , totally pointless .. This gives the process a bad name . When I took my 223 away I never cleaned for the whole shooting trip and have fired as many as 250 moly rounds with no cleaning and the accuracy does not drop off . Can PC do that ?
I clean it thoroughly when I get home and lube the bore as Moly will not stop corrosion because it's Lamellar structure can't exclude Oxygen and moisture from the steel like oil or grease can.


Yes, I would expect PC to fire more than 250rds without loss of accuracy as they're usually cast bullets at something less than the velocity of jacketed bullets. People in the US shooting cast PC in AR's in .223 and 300BLK probably shoot that many somewhat regularly. In Australia I'd be surprised if very many people shoot that much in any centrefire in one sitting though. I'm not one that is going to sit there pouring hundreds of rounds through the .357 or .44 magnums trying to discern when accuracy drops off, but there must be people that have done so.

I guess I could put several bricks of CCI Clean .22LR (powder-coated CCI Standard Velocity) through one of my rifles to see if it goes longer than the 800-1500rds I generally get with the standard lubed-cast bullets before needing to clean the bores.
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Re: powder coating

Post by JohnV » 22 Mar 2023, 8:18 pm

I don't believe PC can do what you say in a center fire , pistol maybe . From what I have observed at the range PC gums up the bore after a while . I will agree to disagree , as I said I am no trying to convert anyone do what ever you think works for you . I have actually done the shooting tests with Moly and several other long term tests . How many real long term tests have been done for PC ?
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Re: powder coating

Post by Kaid » 23 Mar 2023, 7:03 am

I was using ALOX as a lube worked OK but left bullets a bit sticky I have not used moly. Do you apply the same way as ALOX I might as well give it a go
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Re: powder coating

Post by Kaid » 23 Mar 2023, 7:04 am

I was using ALOX as a lube worked OK but left bullets a bit sticky I have not used moly. Do you apply the same way as ALOX I might as well give it a go
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Re: powder coating

Post by JohnV » 23 Mar 2023, 8:53 am

No , Applying Alox is easier than Moly . To do Moly right takes more planning and attention to details and a good tumbler . For cast bullets at lower velocities PC seem to be ok you just have to perfect the process . Using WD40 on the bullets was a real bad idea as it's a penetrating oil and has probably contaminated the bullets deeply . Use the CLR and Shellite wash to try and get them really clean .
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Re: powder coating

Post by bladeracer » 23 Mar 2023, 10:41 am

Kaid wrote:I was using ALOX as a lube worked OK but left bullets a bit sticky I have not used moly. Do you apply the same way as ALOX I might as well give it a go


I still use Alox if I'm not shooting them hard. With Alox I use a flat tray (the lid of a Lee die box), put some lube in it then roll the bullets around the tray for a few seconds, then pluck them out individually and stand them to dry - it takes me longer than doing PC, and I have to wait for the lube to dry before I can load them. With PC I can start loading them a minute after removing them from the oven as soon as they've cooled down to touch. I have also done Alox by painting just around the driving bands with a fine brush to avoid having lube all over the nose, but with "bore-riding" bullets it's better to lube the bearing surface of the nose as well.
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Re: powder coating

Post by Kaid » 25 Mar 2023, 7:18 am

Guys I have to say the replies to this post have been informative and given me food for thought so thank you all for replying
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