Using small pistol primers in a rifle???

[MtnMan]

Picked up 1000 No.100 federal small pistols primers this afternoon.

Guy tells me over the phone he has 1000 small rifle primers which is what I was looking for.

I get to his place and they are small pistol primers.

Can you use them in a rifle load? I load for a .222rem.

I hear they have thinner cups and a lighter charge. I'd rather move them on if they are no good for rifle.

[northdude]

Ive heard of them being used in 22 hornet. Know a guy that tried it and lost an eye. That was enough to put me off doing it no matter what anyone says

[bladeracer]

Picked up 1000 No.100 federal small pistols primers this afternoon.

Guy tells me over the phone he has 1000 small rifle primers which is what I was looking for.

I get to his place and they are small pistol primers.

Can you use them in a rifle load? I load for a .222rem.

I hear they have thinner cups and a lighter charge. I'd rather move them on if they are no good for rifle.

I would use them for reduced loads, not full-pressure rifle loads. .222Rem is a 50,000psi cartridge.

[Oldbloke]

No experience but what blade said. Reduced loads.

As a starting point, I just had a look and pistol ammo using SP seem to max out at about 35, 000 psi.

But be careful. Do some home work.

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[Oldbloke]

Ive heard of them being used in 22 hornet. Know a guy that tried it and lost an eye. That was enough to put me off doing it no matter what anyone says

No wonder. Hornet and hornetk pressures are around 40,000 to 45,000psi.

Mntman needs to be very careful or sell them. The bloke he got them off may have been caught out too.

[animalpest]

Yeah don't. There is a reason why they make small pistol primers and small rifle primers.
Different cup thickness and different brisiliance for different pressures.

Supposedly sp primers in hornets improve accuracy as the Sr primers supposedly make the bullet jump in the thin case before the powder ignites. Never saw a difference in accuracy in my hornet but did have pierced primers with hot loads.

[on_one_wheel]

Sierra say no
https://www.sierrabullets.com/primer-substitutions/

[straightshooter]

As others have pointed out, they may be used but pressures must be kept to modest levels.
Although FPS might be reduced you may be surprised to find little difference in real world performance.
Unfortunately in a primer and powder drought, sometimes the only option may be to make do with what one has.

[rc42]

The official answer will always be to use only the primer specified in the load manual, thanks to lawyers it has to be.

In reality small primers have a lot of interchangeability options as their external dimensions are all the same.
It varies by manufacturer but for CCI, small rifle and small pistol magnum are the same thing, they have the exact same primer material and cup thickness of 0.020"
Their small pistol have less primer material and are 0.017" cup thickness, great for pistol firing pins with their weaker springs but have a reduced ability to cope with high pressure loads before they blow back out through the primer.
CCI small rifle magnum use even more primer material and have a 0.025" cup thickness, those will hold up under very high pressure rifle rounds but need a substantial firing pin hit, certainly beyond that of most pistols.

Numerous tests have shown that different primers have no effect on powder loads, magnum primers burn hotter and longer so are better suited to slower powders but the energy they release is insignificant compared to the powder.

If using small pistol primers in a rifle load just treat it like a new powder and work the load up, signs flattening and pressure stress on the primer will be visible well before loads get dangerous.

[bladeracer]

Unfortunately in a primer and powder drought, sometimes the only option may be to make do with what one has.

An alternative is to drill out some of your SRP brass to take LRP's.

[MtnMan]

I'll sell them or trade them then.

[straightshooter]

rc42
The principal danger with a small pistol primer in a rifle cartridge is at the higher pressure in a rifle cartridge the thinner pistol primer is more likely to split at the sharp corner formed against the bolt face leaving a tell tale pit on your bolt.
Bladeracer
Not a good idea if a 223 head sized case is involved as there would be very little thickness of brass over the primer in the extractor groove which is pretty well unsupported.

[wanneroo]

There are so many people out there that want small pistol primers right now I'd flog them off at a massive profit and then pick up some small rifle primers instead.

[bigrich]

Ive heard of them being used in 22 hornet. Know a guy that tried it and lost an eye. That was enough to put me off doing it no matter what anyone says

small pistol primers in hornets is actually a very common old school accuracy trick . the hornet suffers from primer induced bullet jump due to having not a lot of neck tension . small pistol primers and a light crimp counteract the bullet jump caused by the primer ignition . i've used winchester small pistol primers thousands of times with no isues . i've had 22 hornets that litterally shot bug holes . my old formula was 40 vmax , 13gn of 'lil gun , case was partially full length resized , and a light crimp . the only problem is the 40vmax gives too long a COL for most mag fed hornets , in which case a 35vmax is a better option .but i moderised and went 222 .
there may have been other factors as to why old mate's rifle let go with small pistol primers

[MtnMan]

There are so many people out there that want small pistol primers right now I'd flog them off at a massive profit and then pick up some small rifle primers instead.

Where are these so many people of whom you speak?

No PM's here or on Aust Hunting Net where I advertised them.

[northdude]

How ive got my 3 hornets shooting I seriously think i wouldnt see a difference in pistol primers. But as I said the guy I bought my first hornet off lost an eye trying it. Just passing on what I have seen happen, their your eyes you only get 1 pair if you dont need them and the risk is worth it go for it. Must be a reason your factory ammo uses sr primers surley...and there would be more to it than just lawyers

[yoshie]

Small pistol primers are pretty much unavailable at the moment. Alot of pistol shooters are struggling to meet their minimum shoots because they can find components, powder is the main problem but primers are number 2. I'd sell them and buy small rifle primers.

[JohnV]

Even if you keep the pressure down the rifle firing pin can dent deeper than a pistol hammer blow so you might rupture the thinner cup .
Some center fires have a stronger firing pin strike than others . I would not chance it .

[bladeracer]

Picked up 1000 No.100 federal small pistols primers this afternoon.

Guy tells me over the phone he has 1000 small rifle primers which is what I was looking for.

I get to his place and they are small pistol primers.

Can you use them in a rifle load? I load for a .222rem.

I hear they have thinner cups and a lighter charge. I'd rather move them on if they are no good for rifle.

Are you close to Brisbane?

[northdude]

we have a large rifle primer shortage over here

[bladeracer]

we have a large rifle primer shortage over here

I noticed Rebels have pistol primers now but no rifle primers - perhaps that's coming next to us as well.

[northdude]

we have a large rifle primer shortage over here

I noticed Rebels have pistol primers now but no rifle primers - perhaps that's coming next to us as well.

possibly we would be last in line for them down here

[Blr243]

Im in Brisbane. I have too many small pistol primers and not enough small rifle. Pm me anyone wanting to swap Roughly 1000 primers

[rc42]

Both Rebel and Shooters Delight in Brisbane are showing Federal #200 Small Pistol Magnum primers as in stock, both around $20 per 100.
These have a 0.019" cup thickness and like other SPM primers will be generally interchangeable with SR primers.

I don't think postage is an option for either store though, they seem to be collection only.

[bigrich]

we have a large rifle primer shortage over here

and over here too........

[Blr243]

Is there really a large rifle primer shortage ? If so i did not see it coming. I have felt safe with 2000 so i never saw it coming . It won’t worry me

[bladeracer]

Both Rebel and Shooters Delight in Brisbane are showing Federal #200 Small Pistol Magnum primers as in stock, both around $20 per 100.
These have a 0.019" cup thickness and like other SPM primers will be generally interchangeable with SR primers.

I don't think postage is an option for either store though, they seem to be collection only.

I have seen two shops in Victoria recently advertise on FB that they can now ship ammo, one is charging the same $60 flat fee that Rebel used to. But when I contacted both to confirm they could actually ship me ammo my messages went unanswered so I still don't know that it's possible.

H&S Firearms have been good with powder and primer stock recently so I rang this morning and they are out of small rifle currently. I ordered a case of CCI Standard though which they have in stock - they still have another case if anybody is interested. Unfortunately gun shops can no longer take payment over the phone as the banks have cut that facility off - just to gun shops.

[MtnMan]

Are you close to Brisbane?

Near Stanthorpe.

[bigrich]

Is there really a large rifle primer shortage ? If so i did not see it coming. I have felt safe with 2000 so i never saw it coming . It won’t worry me

depends on how much shooting you do i guess . i'm always playing around with something . yesterday it was my brno 21H in 8x60s mauser . i was eyeing of my primers as i loaded each round......

[bigrich]

How ive got my 3 hornets shooting I seriously think i wouldnt see a difference in pistol primers. But as I said the guy I bought my first hornet off lost an eye trying it. Just passing on what I have seen happen, their your eyes you only get 1 pair if you dont need them and the risk is worth it go for it. Must be a reason your factory ammo uses sr primers surley...and there would be more to it than just lawyers

if your wary of the small pistol primers , try my other 2 tricks . FLS just enough that the neck is sized down far enough for your bullet seating depth , and put a light crimp with a lee factory crimp die . out of my old krico it would shoot bug holes load a 40vmax out and single feed . great bullet