357 rifle loads

[Obie73]

Hi, this is my first post here. I'm fairly new to shooting and have recently joined a range where they have Lever Action target shooting competitions, with targets at 25, 50, and 100m. Target shooting with lever actions and open sights is my main interest. I will be shooting with a Uberti 1873 model with 19" barrel, in 357 magnum.
I'm trying to figure out lighter or medium loads for it, using the powders that are available at the moment. It looks like Cleavers have AR2206H and AR2207 and I wondered if either of these might be a good powder to use.
The main thing I'm looking for is best accuracy out of the 1873, but with lighter recoil if possible. I know some people will say the 357 hardly kicks at all, and that's true, but I'd like a lighter recoil than a full power 357 load. I want to use 357 brass and not 38 special. Could anyone give me some advice as to whether these powders are a good choice for 357 rifles, especially for lighter/medium loads? If you have any advice regarding actual loads that would be really helpful too. Thanks.

[Oldbloke]

Have you looked here:

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/data-rifle/

I couldn't see those powders listed. Looks like you need 2205

[deye243]

If you are looking for lighter loads around the 12 to 1300 feet per second for a 125 grain bullet out of that Bowral links you will be looking at slow-burning shotgun powders around ap70 ap100 will be a good one.
good luck finding those but if you ever come across herco or unique grab them another powder I have found very useful in that situation is vectan AO if you can find somewhere up in Queensland selling that line of powders and that $110 a pound is cheap

[bigrich]

Hi, this is my first post here. I'm fairly new to shooting and have recently joined a range where they have Lever Action target shooting competitions, with targets at 25, 50, and 100m. Target shooting with lever actions and open sights is my main interest. I will be shooting with a Uberti 1873 model with 19" barrel, in 357 magnum.
I'm trying to figure out lighter or medium loads for it, using the powders that are available at the moment. It looks like Cleavers have AR2206H and AR2207 and I wondered if either of these might be a good powder to use.
The main thing I'm looking for is best accuracy out of the 1873, but with lighter recoil if possible. I know some people will say the 357 hardly kicks at all, and that's true, but I'd like a lighter recoil than a full power 357 load. I want to use 357 brass and not 38 special. Could anyone give me some advice as to whether these powders are a good choice for 357 rifles, especially for lighter/medium loads? If you have any advice regarding actual loads that would be really helpful too. Thanks.

unfortunately, pistol powders are unobtainable at the moment . ar2205 or hodgson 'lil gun are the best powders i ever used in 357 rifle . their also the best 22 hornet powders too . still waiting on ADI to get their powder production going ...... i think 2207 might be suitable for heavy projectiles in 357 , but 158gn were more accurate in any 357 rifle i had

[Blr243]

Heavy loads in the 357 can boot a bit due to the lightweight nature of 357 rifles . But its all manageable and one can easily get used to it. People ( myself included ) have started to experiment with 2207 In 357 mag because we cant get 2205 . It was 3 plus months ago. I cant remember my data

[Blr243]

And welcolm to EG

[Gamerancher]

10gr of 2207, small rifle primer, 158gr hardcast bullet works well in a "Japchester" Model 92 I have.

[rc42]

I use a nice 'warm' 357 round with magnum primer, 16gn of 2207 and a 180gn LRN projectile, this is a case filling load for 357 brass, not really compressed but no air space either.
2207 is the fastest powder currently available in Australia but it is still a little on the slow side for straight wall pistol caliber loads, to increase burn time heavy projectiles and long barrels improve things but expect to still see some unburned remains. Case filling with a slower powder like 2206H might be interesting though, I'd expect it to be softer shooting with more unburned powder left behind.

Lighter loads like 10gn might be better in a 38SP case as that would also have no air space or powder movement and reducing the initial case volume will give a faster load, but still weak even for 38SP and there would be considerable drop at 100m.

[Obie73]

Thanks everyone for the very helpful information so far, and thank you Blr243 for the welcome.
I checked out the ADI load information and yes, unfortunately they don't have data for the 2206H and 2207 powders. I will be going out to the range on the weekend and will ask some of the other LA shooters what powder they are currently using (probably reserves of pistol powder that they have, I suppose).
Yesterday I bought 4 boxes of magtech cowboy action rounds and will start out using these on the weekend. From there, I will begin looking into maybe getting into reloading. I understand that these are very mild loads but that's fine. I'm just hoping they will be accurate enough to get me started in the LA competition. Does anyone have any experience with these cowboy action loads? Do you need to swab out the barrel with lead cleaner afterwards? I haven't used lead projectiles before but only copper jacketed. I started out with a Henry 30-30 but have always really wanted to shoot a 357 mag rifle. Any advice much appreciated. I'm really grateful for the load advice for 2207.

[Obie73]

I forgot to say that another reason I'm interested in lighter/medium strength loads is that apparently the 1873 Winchester toggle link action might not be the strongest, compared to, say, the 92 action. Many say that there isn't a problem with firing full strengh 357 in an 1873 action but I felt I should be a bit conservative with load strenght. at least at first until I know more.

[Blr243]

Thanks blokes for that data. Big help for me too. Yonks ago I remember buying pre lubed cast projies. A hell of a lot Of commercial casties now are also coated. But not lubed. Im pretty sure this helps to keep the leading down esp at reduced speeds ...

[deye243]

Thanks blokes for that data. Big help for me too. Yonks ago I remember buying pre lubed cast projies. A hell of a lot Of commercial casties now are also coated. But not lubed. Im pretty sure this helps to keep the leading down esp at reduced speeds ...

Yes it does Black Widow for example in Victoria are guaranteeing no leading up to 3000 feet per second personally I'm yet to see this but they guarantee it .

[Blr243]

Your right 3000 is a big statement Cant really see many wanting to plinkwith lead that fast

[rc42]

Black Widow make nice projectiles and do make powder coated 180gn round nose, if you contact them they will do a batch sized to .358 instead of the usual .357
The weight and larger size both help to increase burn time and pressure that the slow powder needs.

[deye243]

as long as the projectile is not taking up too much case space that might just work

[deye243]

Your right 3000 is a big statement

Just posting this so others can read it.

Screenshot_20230413-190417_Chrome.jpg (407.93 KiB) Viewed 1404 times

[wrenchman]

i have loaded lots of 357 for a henry and i and working up stuff for hunting if i am just doing stuff for shooting i will run berry bullets many of the powders i get the guys here have said you cant get them.

[Obie73]

I've been reading up on some American sites about loads for lever action rifles. Some are saying that H4198 works well with 44-40. This powder according to ADI's powder equivalents table is similar to AR2207. 44-40 is I think actually thought of as a rifle caliber. It has a slightly necked case, too. But, still ... it seems reasonably close in principle to a pistol caliber. Thoughts? I'm pretty new at all this. I'm curious because I haven't noticed anyone in what I've read about the 44-40 using H4198 complain too much about unburned powder in the bore. Is this a dangerous problem or more of just an inconvenient one, requiring more frequent cleaning?

[Shootermick]

Which range are you shooting at mate?

[deye243]

I've been reading up on some American sites about loads for lever action rifles. Some are saying that H4198 works well with 44-40. This powder according to ADI's powder equivalents table is similar to AR2207. 44-40 is I think actually thought of as a rifle caliber. It has a slightly necked case, too. But, still ... it seems reasonably close in principle to a pistol caliber. Thoughts? I'm pretty new at all this. I'm curious because I haven't noticed anyone in what I've read about the 44-40 using H4198 complain too much about unburned powder in the bore. Is this a dangerous problem or more of just an inconvenient one, requiring more frequent cleaning?

It's not similar to 2207 it is the same adi make it for Hodgden

[Larry]

To get best results in the 44-40 in a rifle load it with 40grns of Black Powder. Considerably more velocity than any current smokless powder. Even if we could get it.

[Obie73]

Thanks for the info and advice. Spoke with soneone this weekend who loads 17 gr 2207 with 125 gr jhp and gets good results. I'm not advocating this load at all I'm just repeating what I heard him say. I asked if he gets unburned powder and he said yes, a bit, but it's not a problem for him. I might get into reloading afterall. Pretty cool to shoot a 44-40 with black powder, thanks for that Larry. Cheers everyone.

[Obie73]

Btw he said he used to reload with 2205, which he said was a faster powder, but his gun still shoots exactly the same and just as accurately with 2207, without him having to move the sights. That's encouraging.

[bigrich]

Btw he said he used to reload with 2205, which he said was a faster powder, but his gun still shoots exactly the same and just as accurately with 2207, without him having to move the sights. That's encouraging.

with what caliber and weight projectile mate ?

[Obie73]

357 mag with 125 gr projectilce. He shoots 357 in a Uberti 20" barrel 1873 lever action.

[Obie73]

Do lighter loads tend to be less accurate, or not necessarily? I realise that lighter loads would have less energy, and thus be less flat-shooting, but I don't mind changing the rear sight elevation for different points in the trajectory and I only intend to shoot out to 100m and no further. Also, this is just for paper target shooting.

I'm thinking I might start out reloading for a 357 rifle with 2207 and 158 gr projectiles. I have no idea of course whether this is a good starting load but I have in mind to begin around 12 gr and gradually try loads with 13, 14, and 15 grains and see what is more accurate out of the 1873 rifle. Does this sound feasible?

[Oldbloke]

This might help.

ADI Equivalents 2016 9th Ed.JPG (98.33 KiB) Viewed 1166 times

Some of Hodgen powders are just rebounded ADI powders.

Hodgdon-Powder-and-ADI-The-Australian-Connection-10-ADI.jpg (174.35 KiB) Viewed 1166 times

[Ausmade]

Is anyone using 2207 with 180gn projectiles? If so, what projectiles are you using? Nick Harvey's manual says you can run 180gn projectiles using 2207 but for other weight projectiles, 2207 is not suitable. None of my other reloading manuals, Hornady, Lee, Speer and ADI show 2207 or an equivalent as being a suitable powder option at all.

[Obie73]

I think 180 gn sounds a bit on the heavy side. I'm going to try something more usual, like 158 gn. I haven't yet found the spot in Uncle Nick's reloading manual where it says you should use 2207 only for 180 gn projectiles..
But, the main thing is, what's up with primers? Cleavers the other day said they don't have several types of primers and they don't know when they will ever get them in again. What a great time to get into reloading! Haha.

[bladeracer]

I think 180 gn sounds a bit on the heavy side. I'm going to try something more usual, like 158 gn. I haven't yet found the spot in Uncle Nick's reloading manual where it says you should use 2207 only for 180 gn projectiles..
But, the main thing is, what's up with primers? Cleavers the other day said they don't have several types of primers and they don't know when they will ever get them in again. What a great time to get into reloading! Haha.

I made some calls this week, no primers around at all. A mate told me he saw some advertised - $500/1000 for Large Rifle.

200gn Hornady jacketed RN's shoot well in my .38 Special Uberti Yellowboy, but I prefer the 125gn bullets.