Case Cleaning

[in2anity]

Better be carefull carrying ammo in my pocket then. Anyone ever had one go off in their pocket

indeed i have never heard of spontanious primer combustion . never.

[JohnV]

Better be carefull carrying ammo in my pocket then. Anyone ever had one go off in their pocket

I has happened to two people in the UK and 1 in the USA that I have read about not seen it personally but then I never carry ammo in my pocket because static discharge from clothing can happen especially when being very active .
Also there has been instances of primers going off in auto reloading presses priming tube .

[bladeracer]

Better be careful carrying ammo in my pocket then. Anyone ever had one go off in their pocket

I've seen claims of it but when I do there invariably seem to be loose batteries in the same pocket, coincidental perhaps. I have heard of a guy that came home from hunting and had his bum to the fireplace to warm up when a shotshell detonated in his back pocket, that seems more likely. And there are videos of ammo being dropped and detonating, mostly 12ga so weight plays a role in it.

[JohnV]

I read somewhere but don't ask me where that extra heat sensitizes primer compound and makes it more easily ignited . Continue adding extra heat and eventually it does go off or the powder could go off . Maybe the guy at the fire warming his rear had two things going on , extra heat applied and static discharge . In that situation it could never be enough heat to set off the powder so it had to be the primer .

[straightshooter]

Better be carefull carrying ammo in my pocket then. Anyone ever had one go off in their pocket

I has happened to two people in the UK and 1 in the USA that I have read about not seen it personally but then I never carry ammo in my pocket because static discharge from clothing can happen especially when being very active .
Also there has been instances of primers going off in auto reloading presses priming tube .

Nonsense!
All ignitable material is fully encapsulated in a high conductivity continuous metallic container which very effectively works as a Faraday Shield.
So static electricity generated by humans, if any, will be a non-event.
But a full on lightning strike will have a different outcome. Even then it may be impossible to tell whether the cartridge got ignited while being vapourized by the lightening. Were that to happen with the cartridge in one's pocket at the time I think ignition of the cartridge would be the least of one's problems.

Yes autoprime accidents have happened, usually due to the unfortunate confluence of equipment design quirks and operator heavy handedness.

[JohnV]

A Faraday cage has to be earthed to work properly but if you are inside a hollow conductor you are safe . The static hits the primer irrespective of the cylindrical shape of the case .
Imagine you are sitting inside a Faraday cage and someone sticks a power lead inside the cage and you grab it . You will become the Earth not the cage . Electrical ignition of primers is very real and rifles have been designed to fire that way with no firing pin at all .
So to say a primer can not be fired with electricity is dead wrong but can static electricity do it ? I believe it can in special circumstances that rarely occur .

[straightshooter]

Yet more nonsense!
A Faraday Cage is but one implementation of a Faraday Shield. For this exercise earthing is irrelevant.
The static hits the primer irrespective of the cylindrical shape of the case .
How does the static only "hit the primer" and where does it go from there? How many joules of energy are in the static?
Electrical ignition of primers is very real and rifles have been designed to fire that way with no firing pin at all
I agree with you but there is a very big BUT
Primers designed for electrical ignition have different priming material and, of necessity, different internal construction compared to primers intended for impact ignition. When Remington released it's electronic ignition 700 rifle it's ammunition could not be ignited in a mechanical firing pin 700 and a conventionally primed round would not fire in the electronic ignition 700 even though both rounds were physically identical.
So to say a primer can not be fired with electricity is dead wrong
Please don't attribute words to me that I have not written. Where I come from that is known as lying.
I commend reading "Hatcher's Notebook" where he describes a variety of experiments performed to determine the effect of a round exploding in an open situation. He used two methods, one was to use a car battery with one wire touching the primer cup and the other wire touching the case to provide enough Joules to heat the primer to the point of ignition. In other cases he used an arc welder in much the same configuration.
Col. Hatcher went on to became an expert witness regarding rounds going off in somebody's pocket and many other firearm claims in various courts in the US.
but can static electricity do it ? I believe it can in special circumstances that rarely occur
Yes it happens in Hollywood special effects for the entertainment of the gullible.

[Oldbloke]

"All ignitable material is fully encapsulated in a high conductivity continuous metallic container which very effectively works as a Faraday Shield.
So static electricity generated by humans, if any, will be a non-event."

I also believe this to be correct. And my understanding is that having an earth is irrelevant, it acts this way with a current flow. It doesn't matter where the flow is going.

Yes, it's all about the joules of energy and heat generated. Powders and primers are ignited with heat. Heat can be generated several/many ways.


This has been around a very long time. Note: he is not earthed.

https://youtu.be/9YmFHAFYwmY?feature=shared

F riction
I mpact
S park
H eat.

A fifth would chemical incompatability. But they generate heat.

[JohnV]

If it's nonsense then how come static can ignite a primer only takes 190 C degrees to ignite a primer and static sparks can be over 1000 degrees C . It is not a Faraday cage as far as the primer is concerned . It's not within the cage it's on the external surface where the charge can build up .

[Oldbloke]

If it's nonsense then how come static can ignite a primer only takes 190 C degrees to ignite a primer and static sparks can be over 1000 degrees C . It is not a Faraday cage as far as the primer is concerned . It's not within the cage it's on the external surface where the charge can build up .

Ummm, I think not that simple.

It's a combination of joules and temp and the nature of the composite.

The energy will pass around and past the primer, so, yes, it will act like a Faraday cage unless the primer is where the spark is concentrated and the rest of the case is insulated.

[JohnV]

Yet more nonsense!
A Faraday Cage is but one implementation of a Faraday Shield. For this exercise earthing is irrelevant.
The static hits the primer irrespective of the cylindrical shape of the case .
How does the static only "hit the primer" and where does it go from there? How many joules of energy are in the static?
Electrical ignition of primers is very real and rifles have been designed to fire that way with no firing pin at all
I agree with you but there is a very big BUT
Primers designed for electrical ignition have different priming material and, of necessity, different internal construction compared to primers intended for impact ignition. When Remington released it's electronic ignition 700 rifle it's ammunition could not be ignited in a mechanical firing pin 700 and a conventionally primed round would not fire in the electronic ignition 700 even though both rounds were physically identical.
So to say a primer can not be fired with electricity is dead wrong
Please don't attribute words to me that I have not written. Where I come from that is known as lying.
I commend reading "Hatcher's Notebook" where he describes a variety of experiments performed to determine the effect of a round exploding in an open situation. He used two methods, one was to use a car battery with one wire touching the primer cup and the other wire touching the case to provide enough Joules to heat the primer to the point of ignition. In other cases he used an arc welder in much the same configuration.
Col. Hatcher went on to became an expert witness regarding rounds going off in somebody's pocket and many other firearm claims in various courts in the US.
but can static electricity do it ? I believe it can in special circumstances that rarely occur
Yes it happens in Hollywood special effects for the entertainment of the gullible.

I never said most of the crap you are talking about . The bloody primers face is on the outside of the case not in any faraday cage . Explain why there is reports of incidents where ammo has gone off in peoples pockets . I have seen the results of spontaneous detonation of primers in a Dillon press primer tube . Explain that . Their are rifles that fire by electrical discharge using standard primers . I think you are the one spreading nonsense .

[Tiger650]

I would never tumble loaded ammunition, "powder" balls or sticks are coated with a deterrent such as graphite, wearing that off must logically have an effect [or it would not be there] and the possibility of making actual powder out of ball or stick propellant would increase total surface area of a charge.
Shiny brass looks good but plain clean brass is just as good practically speaking.
A bloke who was trained to shoot at targets that shoot back once mentioned to me that ejecting shiny brass is not regarded as a good career move, critters like crows and deer and such have keen eyes also.
I have not used a case tumbler as such but the common crushed walnut shell vibrator case cleaner sees about one in 6 cases end up with a grain of media stuck in the flash hole so certainly no primed cases in that type of equipment.

[in2anity]

You could drive uber eats instead of polishing brass #justsayin

[JohnV]

I would never tumble loaded ammunition, "powder" balls or sticks are coated with a deterrent such as graphite, wearing that off must logically have an effect [or it would not be there] and the possibility of making actual powder out of ball or stick propellant would increase total surface area of a charge.
Shiny brass looks good but plain clean brass is just as good practically speaking.
A bloke who was trained to shoot at targets that shoot back once mentioned to me that ejecting shiny brass is not regarded as a good career move, critters like crows and deer and such have keen eyes also.
I have not used a case tumbler as such but the common crushed walnut shell vibrator case cleaner sees about one in 6 cases end up with a grain of media stuck in the flash hole so certainly no primed cases in that type of equipment.

I agree . Tumbling loaded rounds is not a good idea . If a loaded round is very dirty then just polish them up a bit with fine steel wool . I don't agree with the comment about ejecting shiny brass in a normal situation as any dirty cases used in a gun deposit a lot of crap in your chamber and after a while extraction gets harder . Brass does not have to be super shiny but nice clean brass aids reliable operation . What the Military may or may not do and what a civilian shooter should do is two different things . I have never heard any soldier worry about ejected brass and most Military ammo is not super shiny by the time you get to use it . If you are dropping heaps of empty cases your probably in a firefight and more worried about getting shot than how shiny the brass is . The way to avoid polishing media stuck in a fired case is to tumble before you push out the dead primer . In an unfired case use either stainless steel pins or a CLR wash ( Calcium Lime Rust cleaner ) . 1 cup CLR to 1 litre warm water ( not hot water ) . Rinse twice in hotter water and dry with a hair dryer or on a tray out in the sun .

[madang55]

Better be carefull carrying ammo in my pocket then. Anyone ever had one go off in their pocket

Many...many moons ago, around 1972...I had a collection of those big thick safety matches...and some of those big caps used in the hammer starter pistols...don't ask...anyway, thought I'd do the right thing and dispose of them, put them in a tin can (milo can?) and was walking out the door with them...If only that little voice had worked back then. It would have said something like, "don't shake the can idiot!" After my ears stopped ringing and the smoke cleared, I lifted up my hand to see I wouldn't be biting my finger nails for a few weeks, they were the only thing missing.And, apart from the 2 inch piece of tin can embedded in my thigh, still got the scar, everything was fine.

[straightshooter]

madang55
How about you use that post to start a new thread on the foolish things we did when we were young.

[Peterwho]

I wish my foolish things were limited to when i was young

[madang55]

getting older by the hour and not a minute wiser

[Wm.Traynor]

I wish my foolish things were limited to when i was young

ditto

[on_one_wheel]

Better be carefull carrying ammo in my pocket then. Anyone ever had one go off in their pocket

Many...many moons ago, around 1972...I had a collection of those big thick safety matches...and some of those big caps used in the hammer starter pistols...don't ask...anyway, thought I'd do the right thing and dispose of them, put them in a tin can (milo can?) and was walking out the door with them...If only that little voice had worked back then. It would have said something like, "don't shake the can idiot!" After my ears stopped ringing and the smoke cleared, I lifted up my hand to see I wouldn't be biting my finger nails for a few weeks, they were the only thing missing.And, apart from the 2 inch piece of tin can embedded in my thigh, still got the scar, everything was fine.

Oh s**t ...

That reminds me of when the combination of a pair of pliers, a .22lr bullet and the back side of an anvil ended up with me struggling to dialogue a large piece of brass embedded in my jawbone.