Oldbloke wrote:To state i think the obvious, this could be dangerous. Straight shooter could be right.
BUT, what was the bullet?
Wallaby stew wrote:I loaded up a few rounds to trial in my 45/70 Miroku 1886.
First trial was 40 gn of AR2206H, four shots and only three ignited. The primer ignited because the bullet travelled half way down the barrel. The remaining three shots went around an inch at fifty meters so no issues there.
I blew the powder out of the reciever with the compressor and tried the next lot
Second trial was 40gn of AR2208 and once again only three ignited. Same deal, bullet half way down the barrel.
I've used 2206H in this rifle since I've had it and my loads were 42gr and never had a problem so I'm wondering if these loads are too low to burn in this configuration even though they are ADI recommendations for a starting load but it's really odd that it happened with both powders. I've been handloading and casting for over forty years and tried hundreds of different loads in a lot of rifles and never seen this.
I'm guessing the loads were to light to gain enough pressure to burn.
bigpete wrote:Crimped ?
Oldbloke wrote:"I think it would only be dangerous if I didn't remove the bullets from the barrel before the next shot." That is what I was referring to.
I found this in the 3rd Ed of the ADI manual.
Says 40gr of AR2208 is OK??
Logically 2206H should be ok too.
ADI would not recommend a load that has ignition issues.
Perhaps as BP has suggested crimp.
Personally I would email ADI and ask the question.
Wallaby stew wrote:Thanks for the input. I'll try some filler material tomorrow with the same loads. I have a factory crimp die in the mail and I'll use that as well when it arrives.
I could understand it if I went under ADI recommendations but this isn't the case here.
I've been playing around with mouse fart loads for years without an issue but these aren't mouse fart loads.
Oldbloke wrote:Wallaby stew wrote:Thanks for the input. I'll try some filler material tomorrow with the same loads. I have a factory crimp die in the mail and I'll use that as well when it arrives.
I could understand it if I went under ADI recommendations but this isn't the case here.
I've been playing around with mouse fart loads for years without an issue but these aren't mouse fart loads.
That's one of my concerns. These are ADI recommended loads. You should not have this issue.
The max for ar2206h is 48 grains. You should be able to load back to as low as 28.8gr without issue under the 60% rule for a 405gr cast bullet.
For 2208 max is 50gr so under the 75% rule down to 37.5gr.
Don't take this the wrong way, but is it possible you loaded wrong or no powder?
Wallaby stew wrote:Oldbloke wrote:Wallaby stew wrote:Thanks for the input. I'll try some filler material tomorrow with the same loads. I have a factory crimp die in the mail and I'll use that as well when it arrives.
I could understand it if I went under ADI recommendations but this isn't the case here.
I've been playing around with mouse fart loads for years without an issue but these aren't mouse fart loads.
That's one of my concerns. These are ADI recommended loads. You should not have this issue.
The max for ar2206h is 48 grains. You should be able to load back to as low as 28.8gr without issue under the 60% rule for a 405gr cast bullet.
For 2208 max is 50gr so under the 75% rule down to 37.5gr.
Don't take this the wrong way, but is it possible you loaded wrong or no powder?
There was a lot of powder in the barrel after each shot. After the first shot I had to use the air compressor to clear the reciever. After the second time I put a piece of cloth in the opened reciever to prevent it from clogging up the works, there was enough powder in there to launch the bullet.
Before I seat bullets I always take the block they are standing in into the bright light to see if they look uniform just as a safety precaution incase of a double charge, nothing caught my eye. I personally don't think it was a charge issue as it certainly didn't look like it.
Obie73 wrote:Not the same calibre as Wallaby stew, but the other day I hand loaded 50 .357 mag rounds, using a starting load listed in the NH manual, plus a slighly increased load in-between this and maximum load. This was my first time loading since I was a teenager, when I did only about 30 rounds of 30-30 with a Lee loader. This time I've got a press. Well, I went off the range to see how things went. Got the "range is now open, you may now commence firing" from the RO, put my first round into the chamber of the lever action (loading singly at this stage), carefully aimed, and squeezed off the shot. Click.
Nothing happened. I waited and waited, but it didn't go off. Much later on I looked at it carefully and on that particular round the impression in the primer looks slightly shallower. This was one of the starting load rounds. My very first shot with my new hand loads and it doesn't even go off! I started to think Oh No! are many of them going to be like this? What could I have done wrong? So, long story short, every single one of the other rounds fired perfectly and I got some very encouraging results with accuracy. I went home and did some research and found out I probably seated the primers a bit too gingerly. Apparently they should be seated just below flush with the rear plane of the cartridge. Mine looked more like they were exactly flush, with maybe one or two just a thousandth of an inch or so higher. So hopefully that was all it was. I don't want that to happen again. I used the press to seat the primers and next time I'm going to use a Hornady hand priming tool. I used AR2207.
Not suggesting this is what the problem is with the 45-70, but I just thought I would mention this here in case it's of use to someone. I wonder if the slower powders are just a bit more finicky.
Oldbloke wrote:Wallaby stew wrote:Oldbloke wrote:Wallaby stew wrote:Thanks for the input. I'll try some filler material tomorrow with the same loads. I have a factory crimp die in the mail and I'll use that as well when it arrives.
I could understand it if I went under ADI recommendations but this isn't the case here.
I've been playing around with mouse fart loads for years without an issue but these aren't mouse fart loads.
That's one of my concerns. These are ADI recommended loads. You should not have this issue.
The max for ar2206h is 48 grains. You should be able to load back to as low as 28.8gr without issue under the 60% rule for a 405gr cast bullet.
For 2208 max is 50gr so under the 75% rule down to 37.5gr.
Don't take this the wrong way, but is it possible you loaded wrong or no powder?
There was a lot of powder in the barrel after each shot. After the first shot I had to use the air compressor to clear the reciever. After the second time I put a piece of cloth in the opened reciever to prevent it from clogging up the works, there was enough powder in there to launch the bullet.
Before I seat bullets I always take the block they are standing in into the bright light to see if they look uniform just as a safety precaution incase of a double charge, nothing caught my eye. I personally don't think it was a charge issue as it certainly didn't look like it.
I do same, use a torch.
Ok. Plenty of powder too. Sooo, just doubt that ADI would recommend a load that could have ignition issues.
Wrong powder, too old, damp?
Primer pushed bullet part way into barrel, so, that would eliminate them I imagine.
Try the tissue I guess.
Something NQR somewhere.
Oldbloke wrote:Suggest you make use of the email address below. I emailed them back in 2014 and they were pretty helpful.
Ensure you provide all details.
Larry wrote:I dont think it is an amount of powder issue. I would be looking at damp or wet powder. Were your cases completely dry? I have seen a bloke do exactly the same thing his problem was that his cases were not completely dry a drip of water was still left in the primer flash hole.
Oldbloke wrote:Wasnt my experience Pete.
Obie73 wrote:What's the best and safest way to deal with a round that didn't go bang at all? Pull the bullet carefully, tip out the contents, and then what do you do with the live 'cap'?