Reloads for a Rem 6 by 47: 85 plus to 105 grain bullets

[Widgeon58]

Looking for some help in a couple of direcrtions here, yes i am a new member to this the forum. so am still flying blind and need help..

I just need advice on how to post properly so my questions and replies get seen quickly and how to ask moderators, if i am doing something wrong to get my post seen quickly and commented on.?

Widgeon58
Unexpected Beneficiary of a very close friend. 's firearns

[deye243]

G'day Widgeon58 welcome to the forum .
Is the rifle in Question 6X47L or the old 6X47 with the necked up 222 rem mag

[bladeracer]

Looking for some help in a couple of direcrtions here, yes i am a new member to this the forum. so am still flying blind and need help..

I just need advice on how to post properly so my questions and replies get seen quickly and how to ask moderators, if i am doing something wrong to get my post seen quickly and commented on.?

Widgeon58
Unexpected Beneficiary of a very close friend. 's firearms

New member posts seem to get held aside for a few days so I don't see them until I click the "Unanswered Posts" button, or somebody else comments on it. I don't know of any way around it, though perhaps posting a "response" to your own thread might kick it out into the open where we can all see it. If something sits unanswered for a while I'll occasionally post a response just to get it moving even if I can't actually assist the OP.

[Widgeon58]

Its a 222 Mag necked up to 6mm, that's why i posted it as a Rem 6 by 47, rather than a 6 by 47L. . It's with a 1 in 8 twist and a 22.5 inch barrel. The use will mainly be hunting as it will nicely slot in the gap between a 22 Mag rimfire and a 6.5 by 55 Mauser

[deye243]

Its a 222 Mag necked up to 6mm, that's why i posted it as a Rem 6 by 47, rather than a 6 by 47L. . It's with a 1 in 8 twist and a 22.5 inch barrel. The use will mainly be hunting as it will nicely slot in the gap between a 22 Mag rimfire and a 6.5 by 55 Mauser

Thanks for that , now back in the 90s I had a 6X45 and that rifle fired just over 9000 rounds and was still holding .800 .
Projectile choice will depend on what size game you are after .
My 3 favourite pills were the BT 70g and the vmax 65g and 75g .
They suited the speed of the case very well at between 3080 and 3166 fps now with a 1:8T it will stabilise a heavy pill but you will soon realise that the lack of velocity won't do you any favours past 100y .
So with the extra Rotational speed a faster moving vmax at around 3250 to 3300 will make for a very destructive varmint pill out to 350 400y mine was a 1:10 but if I ever do another it will be a 1:8 .

[bladeracer]

Its a 222 Mag necked up to 6mm, that's why i posted it as a Rem 6 by 47, rather than a 6 by 47L. . It's with a 1 in 8 twist and a 22.5 inch barrel. The use will mainly be hunting as it will nicely slot in the gap between a 22 Mag rimfire and a 6.5 by 55 Mauser

Thanks for that , now back in the 90s I had a 6X45 and that rifle fired just over 9000 rounds and was still holding .800 .
Projectile choice will depend on what size game you are after .
My 3 favourite pills were the BT 70g and the vmax 65g and 75g .
They suited the speed of the case very well at between 3080 and 3166 fps now with a 1:8T it will stabilise a heavy pill but you will soon realise that the lack of velocity won't do you any favours past 100y .
So with the extra Rotational speed a faster moving vmax at around 3250 to 3300 will make for a very destructive varmint pill out to 350 400y mine was a 1:10 but if I ever do another it will be a 1:8 .

I would agree that the small capacity better suits the lighter bullets for hunting, but unfortunately in Victoria we have to use a minimum 85gn bullet for fallow.

Were you making 3166fps out of a 22.5" barrel in 6x45mm? The 6x47mm has about 20% more capacity so the x45mm must be very efficient.

[Widgeon58]

Any feedback on loads using 85 to 105 grain projectiles in my project, will be appreciated. I have not settled on a shoulder angle yet but was thinking of 40 degrees, no idea why, but seemed about right, assuming I can find a smith with the correct reamer. Am happy to take others thoughts on board.

[deye243]

Any feedback on loads using 85 to 105 grain projectiles in my project, will be appreciated. I have not settled on a shoulder angle yet but was thinking of 40 degrees, no idea why, but seemed about right, assuming I can find a smith with the correct reamer. Am happy to take others thoughts on board.

A reamer with specs like that will be hard to find not to mention that if you find a Smith with one does not mean he is any good the 1st choice you make when you decide to build a rifle is find a Smith with a fantastic rep other wise it can be a bloody nightmare.
Have you considered a 6mm 204 .

[deye243]

Its a 222 Mag necked up to 6mm, that's why i posted it as a Rem 6 by 47, rather than a 6 by 47L. . It's with a 1 in 8 twist and a 22.5 inch barrel. The use will mainly be hunting as it will nicely slot in the gap between a 22 Mag rimfire and a 6.5 by 55 Mauser

Thanks for that , now back in the 90s I had a 6X45 and that rifle fired just over 9000 rounds and was still holding .800 .
Projectile choice will depend on what size game you are after .
My 3 favourite pills were the BT 70g and the vmax 65g and 75g .
They suited the speed of the case very well at between 3080 and 3166 fps now with a 1:8T it will stabilise a heavy pill but you will soon realise that the lack of velocity won't do you any favours past 100y .
So with the extra Rotational speed a faster moving vmax at around 3250 to 3300 will make for a very destructive varmint pill out to 350 400y mine was a 1:10 but if I ever do another it will be a 1:8 .

I would agree that the small capacity better suits the lighter bullets for hunting, but unfortunately in Victoria we have to use a minimum 85gn bullet for fallow.

Were you making 3166fps out of a 22.5" barrel in 6x45mm? The 6x47mm has about 20% more capacity so the x45mm must be very efficient.

How does 3 to 4 grains of powder equate to 20% 6x47L yeah but a 6x47 nope .

And Velocity was done with a procrono so God
knows how accurate they were.
Rifle had a 241/4" barrel

[bladeracer]

How does 3 to 4 grains of powder equate to 20% 6x47L yeah but a 6x47 nope .
And Velocity was done with a procrono so God
knows how accurate they were.
Rifle had a 241/4" barrel

6x45mm has a nominal capacity of 26.9gn H2O (nominal because it can vary significantly depending on brass construction and what dimensions it is sized to), 6x47mm has a capacity of 33gn H2O, a difference of 6.1gn or 23%. These are numbers from online, I don't have either cartridge to take my own measurements from.

I use the Prochrono and find it at least as accurate as anybody is ever likely to need, it would be very difficult to be more than a couple percentage points off, all it does is measure how long it takes the shadow to pass from point A to point B. My calculated speed of sound is 1016fps from memory, I get sonic cracks when bullets hit 1019fps or more, at 1018fps readings I don't get sonic cracks.

[Wyliecoyote]

Whether you are using the 47mm or 45mm based cartridge it is really a pointless exercise if you are looking to use a standard magazine. The usable internal capacity with bullets seated to standard magazine length is identical barring variations in 223 brass brands with S&B being the least internal capacity and Winchester and Hornady being the highest. There is only one powder to use with bullets from 85 to around 100 grains and that is 8208 XBR. It has the highest loading density and the ideal burn rate for the 6x45. My 6x45, which is loaded on Simplex 6x47 dies, using 100 Speer boat tails and 8208 runs at 2650 fps with no pressure signs in a 20 inch barrel. AR 2208 can be used but is slow and you run out of capacity long before you get reasonable speed. AR 2207 is the least desirable powder for bullets beyond 85 grains. The only other powder that is useful is 2206H.
The reason i went to the 223 based cartridge is because i run a magazine, shoot at night with my go to thermal rig, and rarely try to recover brass and don't cry if i lose all the brass shooting pigs on the run. Going the 222 Mag case route is expensive and as i said zero gain if your are restricted to a standard magazine. I will add that i use CTR mags that are longer than Howa mini and stock T3 mags and Howa 1500 internal magazine length. A Waters magazine in a T3 is another good option.
The one bad thing i will say is if you use Barnes 85 grain TSX bullets because the length of them is identical to the Speer 100 grainers. So at magazine length the 85 TSX has minimal velocity gain over the 100 grain Speer simply because you cannot get enough powder in the case. I can get them to 2750 (not 2850 as i had previously thought due to a lying chronograph) on a compressed charge but a regular and much shorter 85 Sierra can run close to 3K fps because there is room for more powder.

There is a 6x45 user group page in the US that has a PDF data file for virtually every bullet and powder combination imaginable that is often updated, The only 2 powders worth the time in the 85 grain bullet weight and beyond is 8208 XBR and 2206H in regard to powders we can readily get here with 8208 often showing 150 to 200 fps speed gain over everything else. The added bonus is this is a benchrest powder so the accuracy is brilliant. The ADI data on the 6x47 is extremely dated and basically useless beyond 1970s benchrest nostalgia. I have used both cartridges and some in between like the 6/222 and a 1/2. There is nothing to gain going to the 222 magnum cases unless using a single shot rifle and that gain might be barely 50 fps.

[bladeracer]

Whether you are using the 47mm or 45mm based cartridge it is really a pointless exercise if you are looking to use a standard magazine. The usable internal capacity with bullets seated to standard magazine length is identical barring variations in 223 brass brands with S&B being the least internal capacity and Winchester and Hornady being the highest. There is only one powder to use with bullets from 85 to around 100 grains and that is 8208 XBR. It has the highest loading density and the ideal burn rate for the 6x45. My 6x45, which is loaded on Simplex 6x47 dies, using 100 Speer boat tails and 8208 runs at 2650 fps with no pressure signs in a 20 inch barrel. AR 2208 can be used but is slow and you run out of capacity long before you get reasonable speed. AR 2207 is the least desirable powder for bullets beyond 85 grains. The only other powder that is useful is 2206H.
The reason i went to the 223 based cartridge is because i run a magazine, shoot at night with my go to thermal rig, and rarely try to recover brass and don't cry if i lose all the brass shooting pigs on the run. Going the 222 Mag case route is expensive and as i said zero gain if your are restricted to a standard magazine. I will add that i use CTR mags that are longer than Howa mini and stock T3 mags and Howa 1500 internal magazine length. A Waters magazine in a T3 is another good option.
The one bad thing i will say is if you use Barnes 85 grain TSX bullets because the length of them is identical to the Speer 100 grainers. So at magazine length the 85 TSX has minimal velocity gain over the 100 grain Speer simply because you cannot get enough powder in the case. I can get them to 2750 (not 2850 as i had previously thought due to a lying chronograph) on a compressed charge but a regular and much shorter 85 Sierra can run close to 3K fps because there is room for more powder.

There is a 6x45 user group page in the US that has a PDF data file for virtually every bullet and powder combination imaginable that is often updated, The only 2 powders worth the time in the 85 grain bullet weight and beyond is 8208 XBR and 2206H in regard to powders we can readily get here with 8208 often showing 150 to 200 fps speed gain over everything else. The added bonus is this is a benchrest powder so the accuracy is brilliant. The ADI data on the 6x47 is extremely dated and basically useless beyond 1970s benchrest nostalgia. I have used both cartridges and some in between like the 6/222 and a 1/2. There is nothing to gain going to the 222 magnum cases unless using a single shot rifle and that gain might be barely 50 fps.

BM8208 is a good powder, I used it a bit before deciding on AR2206H being my go-to powder, though I think that was mainly because I couldn't get 8208 in 4kg bottles.

Interesting stuff Wylie. If you're not saving the brass anyway (and using $2.00 bullets for pigs), is there an advantage to going with these wildcats over a .243 with reduced loads?

The standard length of 6x47mm is 2.485" so it's already too long for .223 mags (for 2.260" cartridges). In a standard short-action you should be able to load them out to more than 2.800", which I would've thought is long enough for even the longest ELD's? Are you using the Mini-action perhaps?

I think the copper bullets would be really good in the 6x47mm, you can step back a couple weights and get more velocity out of them.

[Wyliecoyote]

Blade i don't consider the 6x45 a wildcat really. You take a once fired 223 case, or new if so inclined, and do a single pass through the FL die and that's it. No fire forming, just load and shoot with a 6mm bullet instead of 22 cal. There are no more extra steps to load this cartridge over the base 223.

I have one in a mini as well as the Tikka but with it the shorter mag length means more compressed loads. I have done a couple 6x45s in minis since for others looking for a little more punch with their thermal rigs and soft recoil so you can see the strike at night. You can easily run the 6mm ELD Xs if you chose to in the CTR with its 2.620" magazine or 223 AI Wild Dog magazines that do fit the CTRs, but i find that the 85 TSX and Speer 100 boat tails generally work better on game.

Now to the point you made about 243. That is what i am moving to. Same deal, one pass of surplus 308 cases through 243 dies, load and shoot. Not going to waste time looking for cases or cry if i lose them all. The reason i am going to 243 is not just for the flat trajectory which is a real plus when using the thermal at night but also because the TSXs work better on all pig sizes and deer we have to cull off when numbers increase like right now. The TSXs in the 6x45 at 200 yards and beyond pencil through with little result on smaller pigs under 40 kg unless they hit bone at the shoulder or neck shoulder junction. The best shot on small pigs with the TSXs is through the butt and out the throat if you can get it. Instant lights out. There is no real advantage in using the 6x45 over the 243, reduced loads or not. apart from rifle size weight etc and barrel life where the 243 is quite short as opposed to the 6x45 which is actually longer than the parent 223.
The other cartridge based on the 223 i use a lot is the 30 Apache. Same deal, one pass through the 300 AAC FL die set long, load and shoot. Eject the case when done and keep moving. This little cartridge gives a 30 cal option with loads using 30 grains of CFE 223 and 125 SSTs for 2600 fps or 150s at 2450 fps. Again magazine length is the governor as to what you can use and how fast you can get it to go. Not a good option for the mini action.

[bladeracer]

I think it's considered a wildcat if nobody makes standard production firearms in the chambering and/or nobody has bothered producing factory ammo for it.

Yes, the drawback to copper or brass bullets is the reduced BC, so they're not great at longer ranges as they dump velocity more quickly than a heavier lead bullet.

Blade i don't consider the 6x45 a wildcat really. You take a once fired 223 case, or new if so inclined, and do a single pass through the FL die and that's it. No fire forming, just load and shoot with a 6mm bullet instead of 22 cal. There are no more extra steps to load this cartridge over the base 223.

I have one in a mini as well as the Tikka but with it the shorter mag length means more compressed loads. I have done a couple 6x45s in minis since for others looking for a little more punch with their thermal rigs and soft recoil so you can see the strike at night. You can easily run the 6mm ELD Xs if you chose to in the CTR with its 2.620" magazine or 223 AI Wild Dog magazines that do fit the CTRs, but i find that the 85 TSX and Speer 100 boat tails generally work better on game.

Now to the point you made about 243. That is what i am moving to. Same deal, one pass of surplus 308 cases through 243 dies, load and shoot. Not going to waste time looking for cases or cry if i lose them all. The reason i am going to 243 is not just for the flat trajectory which is a real plus when using the thermal at night but also because the TSXs work better on all pig sizes and deer we have to cull off when numbers increase like right now. The TSXs in the 6x45 at 200 yards and beyond pencil through with little result on smaller pigs under 40 kg unless they hit bone at the shoulder or neck shoulder junction. The best shot on small pigs with the TSXs is through the butt and out the throat if you can get it. Instant lights out. There is no real advantage in using the 6x45 over the 243, reduced loads or not. apart from rifle size weight etc and barrel life where the 243 is quite short as opposed to the 6x45 which is actually longer than the parent 223.
The other cartridge based on the 223 i use a lot is the 30 Apache. Same deal, one pass through the 300 AAC FL die set long, load and shoot. Eject the case when done and keep moving. This little cartridge gives a 30 cal option with loads using 30 grains of CFE 223 and 125 SSTs for 2600 fps or 150s at 2450 fps. Again magazine length is the governor as to what you can use and how fast you can get it to go. Not a good option for the mini action.