subsonic 30/30 load ?

[tuknal]

hi fellas
im new here but have been looking in for awhile
im after some info on loading 30/30 subsonic
seeing as though we can get trailboss anymore is there any other suitable powders out there
im looking at loading 150gn projectiles
any help would be appreciated ,

[Blr243]

If u don’t have any luck I think I seen some factory ammo. I think hornady make a sub 3030

[Blr243]

175 grains. 66 dollars a box

[bladeracer]

hi fellas
im new here but have been looking in for awhile
im after some info on loading 30/30 subsonic
seeing as though we can get trailboss anymore is there any other suitable powders out there
im looking at loading 150gn projectiles
any help would be appreciated ,

I worked up two subsonic .30-30 loads a couple years back, but with Trailboss. You'll want to try AR2207 or AR2206H - I'd experiment with AR2206H first.
Is it for a plinking or hunting load? For hunting you need sufficient accuracy to place a subsonic bullet in the brain, which I don't think most .30-30 rifles have at much more than 50m at most. A heavier bullet might be better as it will reduce case volume helping the small powder charge to ignite.

[mickb]

There are quite a few pistol/shotgun powders apart from TB you could run subsonic with if you can get them.

As-30, AS-50, Ap-100, Bullseye, alliant 2400, unique have all been used in the past for low powered or subsonic loads in bottleneck cases. ADI still lists a tiny AS-30N load in 308 with 165 grain bullets for example at around 1000fps.

I dont have specific data for 30-30 but a post over at the US forum castboolits forum and you will get a thread full of options for both jacketed and cast.

The issue remains in finding these pistol/shotgun powders of course....

[tuknal]

ive tried to get the factory load and ive had no luck and at that price think id rather reload it

blade racer
i have access to 2206h through mates that reload it in 223,,any idea on a starting point ?
i use bm2 and cant see it working ,but if 2206h works i could easily swap the powder i use
i was thinking 150 berry bullets cos they come in a decent baulk pack but may need to rethink that

mickb
i thought thatd be the case as ive heard those powers are hard to find ,but ill keep looking ,,would there be any preference over one or the other?
i have no experience in pistol powders and the like ,,really only loaded 223
just looking at making my 30/30 work for close pigs
it might be easier buying a 300 blackout or 38/357 levergun for quick second shots
these will be use with a suppressor for close in contract work

[bladeracer]

ive tried to get the factory load and ive had no luck and at that price think id rather reload it

blade racer
i have access to 2206h through mates that reload it in 223,,any idea on a starting point ?
i use bm2 and cant see it working ,but if 2206h works i could easily swap the powder i use
i was thinking 150 berry bullets cos they come in a decent baulk pack but may need to rethink that

mickb
i thought thatd be the case as ive heard those powers are hard to find ,but ill keep looking ,,would there be any preference over one or the other?
i have no experience in pistol powders and the like ,,really only loaded 223
just looking at making my 30/30 work for close pigs
it might be easier buying a 300 blackout or 38/357 levergun for quick second shots
these will be use with a suppressor for close in contract work

This is ADI's Cowboy load with AR2206H in .30-30 with 160gn cast bullets.

Screenshot 2023-11-13 173538.jpg (24.51 KiB) Viewed 1805 times

I would load one up on 15gn and chrono it in your rifle - with the suppressor, then move up or down from there until you get where you want to be, then start loading to find an accurate load. I use the Berry's 150gn for these, as I said, they are not going to deform at these speeds but they give good enough accuracy for head-shots out to 50m or so. I also use the 100gn semi-jacketed RN Plinker as it's also cheap and uses a significantly smaller powder charge. The more powder you're burning the louder it will be. BM2 I'm sure would work but I've never used it.

Pistol/shotgun powders also work well in reduced loads but are very hard to find currently. Stripping powder out of 12ga. shells is your best bet there. You could also use the lead shot to cast your bullets. CBE do some nice heavy moulds. Use soft lead and the bullets should hit very hard. https://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/products/rifle-moulds/30-cal

Are you using a Winchester 1894 or Marlin 1894, or something else?

[tuknal]

thanks bladeracer
ill defiantly look into this
im not going down the casting my own bullet road
just trying to keep it simple as i can
the berrys sound like a option ,or if i can get my hands on some cast bullets
i guess BM2 and 2206H are fairly similar so why not
marlin 336 is what im intending to use
guess i better get some dies and give it a go

[bladeracer]

thanks bladeracer
ill defiantly look into this
im not going down the casting my own bullet road
just trying to keep it simple as i can
the berrys sound like a option ,or if i can get my hands on some cast bullets
i guess BM2 and 2206H are fairly similar so why not
marlin 336 is what im intending to use
guess i better get some dies and give it a go

I gave up on buying cast bullets, they're very hard and often under-size, but they are useful for melting down to cast my own bullets.

[Blr243]

Hornady make a 175 gr sub x bullet as a reloading component. I found making my own soft lead bullets for hunting were too soft and not correctly engaging the rifling and were hopeless ly inaccurate

[bladeracer]

Hornady make a 175 gr sub x bullet as a reloading component. I found making my own soft lead bullets for hunting were too soft and not correctly engaging the rifling and were hopeless ly inaccurate

More likely they were undersize rather than too soft, unless you were pushing them hard. If you push soft lead hard it just strips off in the rifling. In a .30-cal I would want cast bullets at least .310".

[mickb]

ive tried to get the factory load and ive had no luck and at that price think id rather reload it


it might be easier buying a 300 blackout or 38/357 levergun for quick second shots
these will be use with a suppressor for close in contract work

Mate an advantage of the pistol action calibres is 357 or even 44mag have multiple bullet options that expand subsonically. and even for non expanding bullets they leave a much bigger hole than .30 cal. There are much less options in 30 cal and usually fairly specialised bullets. Of course the problem with pistol carts is no powder left to load them. But you can harvest the powder from field shotshells and it works out at about $150 a pound which is double what powder used to be but a lot better than it goes for if you can find it. Also the grains needed for sub loads are minimal, 5-6 grains type thing so you get 1200+ rounds per lb of powder.

I know a guy using supressors and 44 cal wadcutters seated out to cull deer and says its quite effective.

On a side note not all 357 and 44 jacketed bullets will expand subsonically. A lot of bullets and even loads for the 38 special and 44 special( the slower, older, shorter versions of 357 mag and 44 mag which fire in the same chambers) often have the magnum bullets loaded in them by the manufacture without any expectation for the to expand. A short list of jacketed bullets that expand in these calibres subsonically below

357
Remington Golden Sabre, 125gn BJHP, expands down to 850fps impact
Speer gold dot 135 grain Short barrel JHO, expands down to 875fps impact
Remington 125grain SJHP( as loaded in their 38 special UMC bulk ammo) expands down to about 975fps impact
Barnes 110gn Tac-XP expands around 1000fps impact
Hornady 158XTP, doesnt expand so much as get some nose flattening to 50cal at about 1000fps impact

44
Speer Gold Dot 200 grain Short barrel , expands down to about 800fps impact
Barnes 200 grain Tax-XP, expands at around 1000fps impact
Hornady 200 XTP, expands about 975-1000fps impact


Worth noting also if you are selecting Hornady XTP bullets in any pistol calibre, ignore the velocity envelope guideline Hornady has on the website, their figures are complete BS. For example the 110 xt0, 125xtp, 140 xtp and 180xtp all way too tought to expand subsonically.

[tuknal]

thanks mick

you and bladeracer have got me thinking now ,do i get another lever gun and buy factory stuff till i get enough brass and find some suitable powder , or do i play with some 2206h or BM2 with what i have ATM (all i need then is dies/projectiles ), or do i get a short action howa i already have rebarreled to 300 blackout and get factory ammo again

[Oldbloke]

This is very interesting
But its 308. About 30% of the max load, not 60% as suggested by ADI

Resized_Screenshot_20231110-174704_Samsung Internet.jpeg (136.98 KiB) Viewed 1747 times

[Blr243]

Good tip blade re the undersize possibility. They were in my 4570. I was very happy with the soft lead pills I were making and I thought it was the softness that was the problem. So I’ll check the size I’m not confident enlarging the mould myself. So I might hav to send it away to have it done.

[bladeracer]

This is very interesting
But its 308. About 30% of the max load, not 60% as suggested by ADI

Resized_Screenshot_20231110-174704_Samsung Internet.jpeg

That's because the "60% rule" has never been an actual limit with AR2206H.

[bladeracer]

Good tip blade re the undersize possibility. They were in my 4570. I was very happy with the soft lead pills I were making and I thought it was the softness that was the problem. So I’ll check the size I’m not confident enlarging the mould myself. So I might hav to send it away to have it done.

You can try just sticking aluminium foil on the face of the mould to make the bullet slightly oval, once it swages into the bore it immediately becomes round anyway, you just need it to be big enough to fill the grooves before gas can push past. But it's better to just buy the biggest moulds you can find, it's easy to size bullets down, hard to size them up - CBE do over-size moulds. You could also give them a coat or two of powdercoat to fatten them up.

[tuknal]

was having a look at some youtube stuff today and found a clip from ultimate reloader in the states
they were playing around with subs for 308
they listed powders H332 BM2 H4895 trailboss
the charge listed for BM2 was 13.4gr for the hornady sub-x 190 , 1052fps ,16800psi
meant to have been on hodgdon website although i couldn't find it
am i right to assume its the same BM2 we have here ,and if so is such a small charge going to cause problems ,,does the case need a filler of some sort ?
they actually only tested the trailboss and H4895 because they couldn't get the other 2
could this be a starting point for 30/30

[straightshooter]

If it's of any interest to anybody, I developed a reliable subsonic load for my Mini Mark X in 7.62x39.
Lee cast 230 grain (actual weight as cast 220 grain), 16 grains Blue Dot, 1100 FPS measured at about 500 meter altitude.
The bullet is only just stable in the 9 1/4 " twist (I think) barrel.

[bladeracer]

was having a look at some youtube stuff today and found a clip from ultimate reloader in the states
they were playing around with subs for 308
they listed powders H332 BM2 H4895 trailboss
the charge listed for BM2 was 13.4gr for the hornady sub-x 190 , 1052fps ,16800psi
meant to have been on hodgdon website although i couldn't find it
am i right to assume its the same BM2 we have here ,and if so is such a small charge going to cause problems ,,does the case need a filler of some sort ?
they actually only tested the trailboss and H4895 because they couldn't get the other 2
could this be a starting point for 30/30

I haven't found BM2 marketed under other names so I would think it would be the same powder.
H322 is AR2219 here (I don't know of an H332).
H4895 is AR2206H and an excellent choice.

Try the load and if it does have poor consistency try some filler to reduce case volume, seat the bullet as deep as you can, and magnum primers.

[tuknal]

thanks for that had no idea they were the same powder just a different name
my bad your right it was H322
ive got 1000 large rifle primers here are they no good for this use ?
ive only ever heard of fillers in cases with small loads ive got no idea of the correct way to do it ,,what to use and how hard do you pack it ?

[bladeracer]

thanks for that had no idea they were the same powder just a different name
my bad your right it was H322
ive got 1000 large rifle primers here are they no good for this use ?
ive only ever heard of fillers in cases with small loads ive got no idea of the correct way to do it ,,what to use and how hard do you pack it ?

Almost all of ADI's powders are (or were) produced here and exported to the US where Hodgdon markets them under their H and IMR brand names.
Try the standard primers, they'll probably work just fine. If they don't then a magnum primer can give it that little more oomph to get the powder ignited. But a filler does the same thing by keeping all the powder packed over the primer, without filler a small charge just lays along the bottom of the case, below the flash hole. All the filler has to do is keep the powder piled up over the flash hole while the case lays on its side in the chamber so the primer can ignite the powder reliably. Anything light and fluffy is good, synthetic fibres, tissue paper and such. If you're single-loading then that would be all you need, if the rounds are going to be experiencing recoil and handling then it may be worthwhile cutting a disc of tissue paper to place over the powder first, then put the filler material on top so the powder can't migrate into the filler material. It does not need to be "packed" at all, the powder granules are very light so don't need much pressure to keep them in place, lightly scrunched tissue is fine.

[tuknal]

cheers blade
i appreciate the help