Reloading. Waayy too technical. :lol:

[Oldbloke]

I think its good to keep things in perspective.
Reloading can be very complex, or as simple as.

https://youtu.be/UeEl9wZyabc?si=C-wDHJiY1m8bKTfK

https://youtu.be/nZ4IBv0Bg9U?si=F9PoVaKTlnR0nmST

[on_one_wheel]

I love reloading with a hammer.
I've managed to develop outstanding ½" groups using the Lee loader, the only difference being that I batch my brass by weight, weigh every charge, anneal cases and have invested time in seating depth, charge weight, projectile choice.

[Lazarus]

I love reloading with a hammer.
I've managed to develop outstanding ½" groups using the Lee loader, the only difference being that I batch my brass by weight, weigh every charge, anneal cases and have invested time in seating depth, charge weight, projectile choice.

Well done, that man!

Good to see I'm not the only OCD unit weighing brass and obsessing

[on_one_wheel]

I love reloading with a hammer.
I've managed to develop outstanding ½" groups using the Lee loader, the only difference being that I batch my brass by weight, weigh every charge, anneal cases and have invested time in seating depth, charge weight, projectile choice.

Well done, that man!

Good to see I'm not the only OCD unit weighing brass and obsessing

Weighing the brass made a noticeable difference, it can be measured by a reduction in the standard deviation of velocity which tightened up my groups.

One day when I'm old and grey I'm going 100% anal retentive in competitive shooting, I'll be measuring runout, turning necks, measuring neck tensions, uniforming projectiles, seating primers with fandangled micrometre precision thingy bobs, sifting through my powder to ensure all the grains are of equal size and shape then sending those finely tuned suckers through a barrel that resembles a rusty old water pipe with my watery old eyes fixed somewhere near a blurry little dot down range
Can't wait

[Lazarus]

I love reloading with a hammer.
I've managed to develop outstanding ½" groups using the Lee loader, the only difference being that I batch my brass by weight, weigh every charge, anneal cases and have invested time in seating depth, charge weight, projectile choice.

Well done, that man!

Good to see I'm not the only OCD unit weighing brass and obsessing

Weighing the brass made a noticeable difference, it can be measured by a reduction in the standard deviation of velocity which tightened up my groups.

One day when I'm old and grey I'm going 100% anal retentive in competitive shooting, I'll be measuring runout, turning necks, measuring neck tensions, uniforming projectiles, seating primers with fandangled micrometre precision thingy bobs, sifting through my powder to ensure all the grains are of equal size and shape then sending those finely tuned suckers through a barrel that resembles a rusty old water pipe with my watery old eyes fixed somewhere near a blurry little dot down range
Can't wait

[wanneroo]

I got started with a Lee Hand Press for $30. Loaded thousands of rounds with it and still have it on the bench to fix any boo boos I make because I can quickly screw in a die and run brass through it or decap or whatever.

I have 3 presses now and will probably add a 4th or 5th now that I have a new Youtube studio and shop coming online soon.

[Oldbloke]

I love reloading with a hammer.
I've managed to develop outstanding ½" groups using the Lee loader, the only difference being that I batch my brass by weight, weigh every charge, anneal cases and have invested time in seating depth, charge weight, projectile choice.

Well done, that man!

Good to see I'm not the only OCD unit weighing brass and obsessing

Weighing the brass made a noticeable difference, it can be measured by a reduction in the standard deviation of velocity which tightened up my groups.

One day when I'm old and grey I'm going 100% anal retentive in competitive shooting, I'll be measuring runout, turning necks, measuring neck tensions, uniforming projectiles, seating primers with fandangled micrometre precision thingy bobs, sifting through my powder to ensure all the grains are of equal size and shape then sending those finely tuned suckers through a barrel that resembles a rusty old water pipe with my watery old eyes fixed somewhere near a blurry little dot down range
Can't wait

And that's the other end of the spectrum

[on_one_wheel]

Image trying to hold a straight face when you tell the wife "I'm reloading to save money"

IMG_20231130_175054.jpg (83.3 KiB) Viewed 4982 times

IMG_20231130_175801.jpg (55.44 KiB) Viewed 4980 times

[Oldbloke]

Image trying to hold a straight face when you tell the wife "I'm reloading to save money"

IMG_20231130_175054.jpg

IMG_20231130_175801.jpg

You win.

[on_one_wheel]

I do like to keep things simple but fully understand that in competition every fraction of a percent matters.

I'd love to see a full list of all the procedures and extreme lengths that some competitive shooters do when reloading to ensure the ultimate on consistently.

[Peterwho]

I do like to keep things simple but fully understand that in competition every fraction of a percent matters.

I'd love to see a full list of all the procedures and extreme lengths that some competitive shooters do when reloading to ensure the ultimate on consistently.

I think that would be a great list - then allocate the percentage fraction improvement to each, see what they add up and then deduct ability to read wind. The number in my case would be negative

[JohnV]

The main factors are safety , reliability and suitability . If your load is safe and works well and suits your purpose it's all good .
Getting too technical can sometimes turn a pleasure into a chore . Usually for most re-loaders as your purpose changes so does your reloading techniques and tools needed . There is many other things that can be done to the gun to improve accuracy other than more precision re-loading . The skill of the re-loader also comes into play . Some years back I went to the home of a guy who was on another forum to help him sort out his reloading . Had to grind down a shell holder to get the cases sized to fit , ( short chamber) .
His style was a smash and wallop everything . Once I sorted out his loading and shooting technique and such he was amazed at how well his ammo shot after the changes .
It was easy to develop a good load because he lived on a fruit farm and we had a range just outside the garage door , which I was very jealous of . There is lots of little things to be a good re-loader that aren't in any of the books and few people actually know .
Moving from basic re-loading to precision re-loading tends to be a natural progression for many as you chase better accuracy .

[darklazor]

If your goal is to save money, you can stick to a standard loading that works for you. In this case, focus on keeping your equipment simple. However, if you want to achieve pinpoint accuracy, you need to develop your load and test various projectiles. Experiment with primers to eliminate other variables this if you want to dive deeper. It may seem like a lot of work, but the results are worth it, especially if you're into competitive shooting. Keep in mind that setting up your equipment can be expensive, but it adds a whole new dimension to the process. So, if you're interested, take it one step at a time and gradually progress into it. That's my two cents worth."

[Faedy]

Bern loading ammo for my .32-20 for 40yrs using the little Lee loader
. Can't fault it.

[in2anity]

Some can shoot good, some can read wind good. Not many can do both. Precision ammo and efficient calibers are moving in a direction to buoy those looking to cheat the wind and just shoot through those fluctuations. Rest assured, when you ignore the tells and focus solely on your target, eventually you will get caught out. Ammo simply needs to be fit for purpose, nothing more nothing less. By fit, I mean capable of shooting a possible or a full set of integers.

[JohnV]

Some can shoot good, some can read wind good. Not many can do both. Precision ammo and efficient calibers are moving in a direction to buoy those looking to cheat the wind and just shoot through those fluctuations. Rest assured, when you ignore the tells and focus solely on your target, eventually you will get caught out. Ammo simply needs to be fit for purpose, nothing more nothing less. By fit, I mean capable of shooting a possible or a full set of integers.

Not if your a hunter , fit for purpose in that case just means accurate enough to take game reliably at your chosen ranges and functions properly .

[in2anity]

Not if your a hunter , fit for purpose in that case just means accurate enough to take game reliably at your chosen ranges and functions properly .

Could not agree more. And riddle me this batman; in what world is even further south of a 1moa shooter required for the hunter? Particularly considering your opening shot is likely to have the most user error in it anyway

[JohnV]

Not if your a hunter , fit for purpose in that case just means accurate enough to take game reliably at your chosen ranges and functions properly .

Could not agree more. And riddle me this batman; in what world is even further south of a 1moa shooter required for the hunter? Particularly considering your opening shot is likely to have the most user error in it anyway

It's also about range Robin . 1 MOA is plenty of a accuracy at short ranges with a light stalking type gun but at 900 meters it's not so good on smaller varmint targets . With a heavy varmint style gun shooting from a bi-pod or rest I like all the accuracy I can ring out of it . Generally well tuned guns place the first cold bore shot with the most accuracy and then the group expands as the barrel heats up . First cold bore shot dead on target is what I look for and if a gun don't do that I start making modifications until it does . For most hunting it does not matter too much if after the first shot the group expands a bit more than is optimal because the game is already down .
I have three center fire rifles with good first cold bore shots and one with no real first cold bore shot , the group is very good but the first shot can go anywhere within that average group size .
I have no clue why it is different .

[in2anity]

It's also about range Robin . 1 MOA is plenty of a accuracy at short ranges with a light stalking type gun but at 900 meters it's not so good on smaller varmint targets.

What percentage of "hunters" do you think are shooting "smaller varmint" at 900m but? In fact what percentage of "hunters" are taking game shots beyond say 300m? Yes there's a subset, but this is novelty. What I'm saying is that I generally agree for your average hunter, reloading has indeed become way too technical. Just FLS the damned things, give em a wipe, load em up and go hunt

[JohnV]

It's also about range Robin . 1 MOA is plenty of a accuracy at short ranges with a light stalking type gun but at 900 meters it's not so good on smaller varmint targets.

What percentage of "hunters" do you think are shooting "smaller varmint" at 900m but? In fact what percentage of "hunters" are taking game shots beyond say 300m? Yes there's a subset, but this is novelty. What I'm saying is that I generally agree for your average hunter, reloading has indeed become way too technical. Just FLS the damned things, give em a wipe, load em up and go hunt

Granted it's a small percentage hunting at longer ranges but accuracy is accuracy and for some rifles I like to have an edge where I can take a crack at some longer shots , for me generally that was upto 500 meters with a heavy 243 and a 30-06 IMP.
For the longer range ammo I carry out extra steps in case prep and use more accurate die systems than in my run off the mill loading . It's lots of little things that all add up to improved accuracy . The problem is that if a gun shoots a 2 inch group your not going to see the single small improvements very easily on the target . Only real accurate guns can develop and evaluate real accurate ammo . I never FLS any accuracy type ammo that's pure poison for precision case fit , hardens the brass and wears the case out early . I developed a few tricks over the years like Partial Neck Sizing and Skim Neck Turning for the factory chamber and the body die concept . Which is integral to those techniques . The good thing about reloading is you can make it easy or more complicated , what ever suits you . Once a person has done a lot of experimenting it's fairly easy to whip up a batch of quite accurate ammo with no testing at all . I just know what shoots .
The one concept I do think all re-loaders should embrace is dumping full length sizing in bolt actions . The body die concept and separating neck and body sizing is a better way to go .

[Tank]

Still use my Lyman 310 tool for .303 and 45-70.
TBH I’ve never noted any loss of accuracy with this method.
Still use RCBS digital powder measure…..which is probably the most important part…..
Old and new in unison!
Imagine that!!

[Billo]

With the amount of reloading and seating depth info available from manufacturers, FLS ya brass is still the simplest and easiest way in developing an accurate hunting load.

Another trick i use these days when reloading, if I get a flyer or I notice a case with greater or less neck tension I toss it. Reducing variables and chasing consistency is the key.

[JohnV]

FLS is the reason you get early and variable neck hardening and have to toss some brass . If that works for you then fine but there is better ways and they have been around a long time but not pushed by anyone because FLS sells more empty cases . A combination of the body die . Lee collet neck die and an occasional neck annealing will keep neck tensions more even across the batch .

[JohnV]

Still use my Lyman 310 tool for .303 and 45-70.
TBH I’ve never noted any loss of accuracy with this method.
Still use RCBS digital powder measure…..which is probably the most important part…..
Old and new in unison!
Imagine that!!

303 and 45-70 are not really good accurate cartridges in the context of what I am saying , to evaluate more precision ideas .
You never noticed any loss of accuracy compared to what ? Actually once you develop really precision ammo and iron out all the bugs you find out that the powder load in grains is one of the less important factors . A tenth of a grain here or there makes little group size difference . There is nothing wrong with a Lyman 310 tool I have two sets myself and a skilled re-loader can make good ammo but they have limitations .

[Billo]

FLS is the reason you get early and variable neck hardening and have to toss some brass . If that works for you then fine but there is better ways and they have been around a long time but not pushed by anyone because FLS sells more empty cases . A combination of the body die . Lee collet neck die and an occasional neck annealing will keep neck tensions more even across the batch .

Nope I anneal some of my rifle after every firing nothing to do with neck hardening.

For my hunting 308 which is using RP brass, I anneal every 2nd firing, I just culled the poor stuff straight off the bat. Brass is cheap.

3 shot groups with my 4lb Howa Super lite run easy 0.6moa for 130gr Speer HP with 49gr of 2208. I don't need that accuracy but it sure is nice to know I've got it

[Oldbloke]

With the amount of reloading and seating depth info available from manufacturers, FLS ya brass is still the simplest and easiest way in developing an accurate hunting load.

Another trick i use these days when reloading, if I get a flyer or I notice a case with greater or less neck tension I toss it. Reducing variables and chasing consistency is the key.

I'm with you. I lose about every 4th or 5th case out hunting.
CBF counting how many times a box of cases has been neck sized. So, FLS every time.
CBF counting how often they are annealed so just anneal every time they get loaded.
CBF checking all those cases for length, so, Trim every time.



My 223 Remlin is doing 0.7moa. Good enough for me.

https://youtu.be/lLG2kSrD40g?si=6TcWPeLtldE3FQJ3

[in2anity]

I don't shoot F, nor do I talk much to F class guys. But the majority of TR shooters I rub shoulders with, simply anneal and FLS. Shoulders are kept bumped to prevent galled lugs, and cases are trimmed. Doesn't need to be overcomplicated.

With good projectiles and a strong emphasis on precise seating depth, this is the outcome out of the TR sling with a Barnard (i.e. not rested on anything):

SHOT FROM THE TR SLING

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Thats a 51.00 - maximum possible score for TR. It's also an F class possible as well, because their integer starts at the V ring. It's a 60.2 in F scoring. Note the waterline is from the wind, not anything else. It's 1moa horizontal at 700m, less than 1/2moa vertical.... with a basic lee FLS die.

As I said, reading the wind correctly is IMO more important than going full tacticool-tard on your ammo. Reading the wind is a skill in and of itself that takes years of refinement. Just use high quality consumables like Bergers and Lapua brass, and learn to read the wind, and you can theoretically go 1/2moa.

[straightshooter]

in2anity
I don't want to take the wind out of your sails because that is an impressive target for a TR shooter by any measure, but the width of the center bull is approximately 1.25 moa on the 700 meter target with the super center half that.

[in2anity]

Yes you are right SS, I stand corrected. My point was, look at what basic reloading practices with quality consumables can do!

[Wm.Traynor]

in2anity,
That is excellent elevation.