Looking for powder to suit 22 hornet

[Hogking]

The only one I've got my hands on is 2207, it's too damn slow. So anything in the 83-88 range should be more suitable. I'm using 33 hammers, I'm told w296 is good and then little gun and 2205, but there are others out there suitable too. Appreciate any help, can return favour with advice on south Island hunting, in nz that is.
Cheers Dusty.

[JohnV]

AR 2205 is a Hornet powder but AR 2207 is not that much slower and can also be used and sometimes gives better velocities . http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/data-rifle/22-hornet click on the warning link . If AR2207 is all you can find then it is usable .

These Powders are said to be burning rate equivalents to AR2205 :------ H4227 / H110 , IMR 4227 , W296 , R-123 , AA 1680 , N120
These Powders are said to be burning rate equivalents to AR2207 :----- H4198 , Reloader 7 , IMR 4198 , W680 , Tu 2000 , N200 , N130
Any of those powders could be used to carefully work up a load in a 22 Hornet .
Hodgdon H4227 is in fact ADI AR2205 .
Hodgdon H4198 is in fact ADI AR 2207 .
CFE BLK would work also .

[Wyliecoyote]

CFE BLK is the best powder i found for the 22 Hornet because it ran such low pressures for the velocity gained. Not quite as quick as LilGun but less fussy and had better batch to batch consistency. I bought every cannister i could once Winchester announced it was no longer importing any more powder. It is the powder of choice for me in the Hornet, Apache and 7.62x39. BLK is longer found here in Aus but you may find it in NZ. 2205 is not likely to be seen ever again.

[bladeracer]

The only one I've got my hands on is 2207, it's too damn slow. So anything in the 83-88 range should be more suitable. I'm using 33 hammers, I'm told w296 is good and then little gun and 2205, but there are others out there suitable too. Appreciate any help, can return favour with advice on south Island hunting, in nz that is.
Cheers Dusty.

You're going to have to use whatever you can find. Some sort of pistol powder if there is any in NZ, there hasn't been any here in Oz for three years outside of a few small imports of Vectan, Lovex and Vihtavuori. AR2207 is your most likely choice, otherwise start stripping 12ga. shotshells for the powder.

[bigrich]

The only one I've got my hands on is 2207, it's too damn slow. So anything in the 83-88 range should be more suitable. I'm using 33 hammers, I'm told w296 is good and then little gun and 2205, but there are others out there suitable too. Appreciate any help, can return favour with advice on south Island hunting, in nz that is.
Cheers Dusty.

i hope your powder supplies in NZ are better than OZ . THE hornet powder in my opinion is 'lil gun . excellent speed and accuracy in my hornets i had . 40 or 35gn vmax are super accurate , but the mag length is a stuff around with the 40's . partial full length sizing and small pistol primers with a light crimp enhance hornet accuracy . hope this helps

[Lazarus]

SmartSelect_20231228_201720.jpg (343.71 KiB) Viewed 4216 times

[yoshie]

I use 2206H

[bladeracer]

I use 2206H

Do you make "normal" Hornet velocity levels with AR2206H?

[JohnV]

Bench Mark 1 would be better than AR2206H . If you can find any .

[Hogking]

I'm in victoria fellas, so aussie problems.
Every firearms dealer in gippsland says they can only get adi powders but none have 2205.
The 2207 is dirty stuff as in doesn't burn properly and you can see unburned powder in the barrel.
I've just got back from nz after hunting tahr with recurve, whilst there I looked around and can get w296 and lill gun easy. Why nz can have that and not over here must be political. They are saying at ADI that 2205 should be getting going in about a yr.

[bladeracer]

I'm in victoria fellas, so aussie problems.
Every firearms dealer in gippsland says they can only get adi powders but none have 2205.
The 2207 is dirty stuff as in doesn't burn properly and you can see unburned powder in the barrel.
I've just got back from nz after hunting tahr with recurve, whilst there I looked around and can get w296 and lill gun easy. Why nz can have that and not over here must be political. They are saying at ADI that 2205 should be getting going in about a yr.

I'm in Gippsland as well.

AR2205 is one of those that seems to have been manufactured on the pistol/shotshell powder line, that was decommissioned three years ago. They have told us a few months ago that they are currently testing their new versions of Trailboss and pistol powders, but I wouldn't expect to see anything before 2025 at best.

Does it matter whether there is residue in the bore, you're going to clean it anyway aren't you?

Is the NZ stuff new production or is it the remnants of older stock? I believe Winchester Australia specifically opted out of importing powder anymore, perhaps NZ has a different importer?

[bigpete]

I have some 2205 I'm not using

[Blr243]

That’s great news blade regarding testing new pistol powders and trsilboss. First time I heard that. I was thinking never again and I was not happy about it. If I’m careful my stash of unique ap70 red dot and trail boss will last me till 2026 but Only if I’m real carefull . I’m just so glad that there is finally some light at the end of the tunnel.

[JohnV]

ADI said there would be no shortages of their powders in Australia as a result of overseas sales .
ADI is failing the Australian consumer .

[bladeracer]

That’s great news blade regarding testing new pistol powders and trailboss. First time I heard that. I was thinking never again and I was not happy about it. If I’m careful my stash of unique ap70 red dot and trail boss will last me till 2026 but Only if I’m real carefull . I’m just so glad that there is finally some light at the end of the tunnel.

One of the members here posted his communication with ADI a few months back - I saved it.

Capture.JPG (52.89 KiB) Viewed 4136 times

I emailed them just before that and got a similar response.

[bladeracer]

ADI said there would be no shortages of their powders in Australia as a result of overseas sales .
ADI is failing the Australian consumer .

Do you know if there are shortages because of overseas sales?

[bigrich]

I'm in victoria fellas, so aussie problems.
Every firearms dealer in gippsland says they can only get adi powders but none have 2205.
The 2207 is dirty stuff as in doesn't burn properly and you can see unburned powder in the barrel.
I've just got back from nz after hunting tahr with recurve, whilst there I looked around and can get w296 and lill gun easy. Why nz can have that and not over here must be political. They are saying at ADI that 2205 should be getting going in about a yr.

That’s frustrating. I got out of hornets cause the best powders dried up . I’ve never tried win296, but I’ve heard it’s a really good hornet powder. 2205 just never got me the accuracy and especially the speed that lil gun gets. I’ve gotten over waiting for 2205 .

[Hogking]

I have some 2205 I'm not using

Have send you a pm. Awesome.

[Oldbloke]

ADI said there would be no shortages of their powders in Australia as a result of overseas sales .
ADI is failing the Australian consumer .

This has been discussed many times. The new line that makes the faster powders is not working correctly. Nothing to do with overseas sales.

[Oldbloke]

I have some 2205 I'm not using

Have send you a pm. Awesome.

SA to Gippsland. That's going to be interesting.

[bigpete]

I have some 2205 I'm not using

Have send you a pm. Awesome.

Haven't recieved anything. I will be going to Gippsland in April to hunt hog deer though. Also have a mate who lives near Melbourne who's coming over at the end of the month who could bring it closer

[JohnV]

ADI said there would be no shortages of their powders in Australia as a result of overseas sales .
ADI is failing the Australian consumer .

Do you know if there are shortages because of overseas sales?

The problems all seemed to start when the US started ordering large shipments . Also they changed propellant styles to suite the US and still doing it . Shutting down what we have traditionally used to concentrate on what the US wants to use .
They told me there would be no shortages and there is . I got a friend in El Paso Texas and I asked him to check the availability of Hodgon powders that are made here by ADI and he said there was plenty in his local gunshops . This was at a time when I could not get what I needed locally . I don't care what ADI says they misinform .

[Oldbloke]

ADI said there would be no shortages of their powders in Australia as a result of overseas sales .
ADI is failing the Australian consumer .

Do you know if there are shortages because of overseas sales?

The problems all seemed to start when the US started ordering large shipments . Also they changed propellant styles to suite the US and still doing it . Shutting down what we have traditionally used to concentrate on what the US wants to use .
They told me there would be no shortages and there is . I got a friend in El Paso Texas and I asked him to check the availability of Hodgon powders that are made here by ADI and he said there was plenty in his local gunshops . This was at a time when I could not get what I needed locally . I don't care what ADI says they misinform .

Well, believe what you want. The production line for the fast powder has not produced so much as 1kg of product that is suitable to use in about 3 years. (Since it was built)
And the old line has been demolished.

But the other production line is operational and the powders are available to buy.

And let's not forget, they are a business that will consider profits and the often government sets the priorities.

We are a sport, so low on the list.

[bladeracer]

ADI said there would be no shortages of their powders in Australia as a result of overseas sales .
ADI is failing the Australian consumer .

Do you know if there are shortages because of overseas sales?

The problems all seemed to start when the US started ordering large shipments . Also they changed propellant styles to suite the US and still doing it . Shutting down what we have traditionally used to concentrate on what the US wants to use .
They told me there would be no shortages and there is . I got a friend in El Paso Texas and I asked him to check the availability of Hodgon powders that are made here by ADI and he said there was plenty in his local gunshops . This was at a time when I could not get what I needed locally . I don't care what ADI says they misinform .

Unless you have factual information you are just spreading hearsay, in my opinion.
ADI stated that they want to convert their double-base powders (pistol/shotshell powders essentially, which I don't think the military uses to an enormous degree) over to single-base (so they don't need to use nitrocellulose) because of military contracts. Since it failed I guess they didn't complete those contract requirements.
Hodgdon powders are also made by GD in Canada, which is the more likely source of supply to the US. Ask your mate if the bottles are marked made in Oz or in Canada.

I've seen some relatively minor (compared to pistol/shotshell powders) disruption in supply of the common rifle powders in the second half of this year. It may be coincidental that ADI have also started telling us that they are finally back testing their new APS powders in the last half of this year. Perhaps they have diverted some production potential toward getting the pistol powders up and running again? Which might explain why they haven't done it since the start if it eats up such a large amount of resources. I can imagine that the resources tied up in churning out powders you've been making for decades are a whole lot less than those involved in developing and testing entirely new technology.

I don't mind people wanting to whine about stuff, but please support your view with factual evidence if you're going to claim your comments to be fact rather than your opinion.

I think the last powder I bought was in 2019. I had decent stock of primers before then but I was still grabbing primers up until about November last year, simply because they were all my dealer was able to supply me with and I like to buy something whenever I visit the shop, so primers it was. He has never been able to supply ADI powders, CCI ammo, Remington primers, Eley ammo, Ruger firearms/parts, or any of the stuff I want as he doesn't have accounts with those distributors. I don't need any primers or powders (though some more FFFg would be handy), so I'm not in the market for these things. But I consider supply of them important enough that I try to follow the situation very closely.

On a personal note, my dealer has been battling cancer this year and got through his surgery very well just before Christmas. I'll see his wife again on Wednesday morning for news on how he's doing, hopefully he was able to come home for Christmas.

Now, loading for the Hornet. If I were so unhappy with the powders I can get, I would be considering simply getting a cheap .223Rem and loading it down to Hornet levels until pistol powders become available again. You have enough case volume to make the velocities you're used to with the slower rifle powders that are still available. I run the .223 lower than Hornet velocities (52gn at 1750fps), but I run the .204 at Hornet levels (32gn at 2500fps) and enjoy both.

[Oldbloke]

Well said Blade.

Just personally when I was thinking about buying a fox rifle I dismissed the hornet early on. I bought a 223 instead. The hornet is a good little round with a lot of history and mystic surrounding it. But I decided it was far easier to down load a 223 if needed than try to squeeze the max out of a hornet. You can only get so much out of a cartridge.

Plus components are easier to obtain and generally cheaper. It's also less specialised making the rifle more useful. My 2c

[bladeracer]

Well said Blade.

Just personally when I was thinking about buying a fox rifle I dismissed the hornet early on. I bought a 223 instead. The hornet is a good little round with a lot of history and mystic surrounding it. But I decided it was far easier to down load a 223 if needed than try to squeeze the max out of a hornet. You can only get so much out of a cartridge.

Plus components are easier to obtain and generally cheaper. It's also less specialised making the rifle more useful. My 2c

When I was working in the Kimberley I weighed up the Hornet against the .223 - I'd sold my .222 when I left Adelaide. A guy at Louisa Downs Station had a Brno Fox in .22 Hornet. But I'd read so much about them being finnicky to load for, and I had zero interest in using factory ammo, so the .223 won out for me. But the builders went bankrupt on us (two of them) and we ended up going back to Perth so I didn't pursue it further. I was happy enough just shooting pistols, in WA longarms were too difficult even thirty years ago.

Agreed, you can very easily reduce performance levels of a more potent cartridge to perfectly suit your needs, but it's difficult to get more performance out of a less potent cartridge when you might want to use it.

[aam]

Another powder to try would be
Vihtavuori N110. It's burn rate is equivalent to,

Alliant 2400 and IMR SR4759. Give or take 5%.

Burn rate for N110 is faster than,
AR2205
W296
I just bought some N110. Will give it a try when I run out of W296.

[aam]

Bench Mark 1 would be better than AR2206H . If you can find any .

Would you by any chance have load data for BM1

I'd like to give this a try, as I've got BM1 on hand.

[bigrich]

Now, loading for the Hornet. If I were so unhappy with the powders I can get, I would be considering simply getting a cheap .223Rem and loading it down to Hornet levels until pistol powders become available again. You have enough case volume to make the velocities you're used to with the slower rifle powders that are still available. I run the .223 lower than Hornet velocities (52gn at 1750fps), but I run the .204 at Hornet levels (32gn at 2500fps) and enjoy both.

what powder are you using to download to hornet speeds ?

[Oldbloke]

Now, loading for the Hornet. If I were so unhappy with the powders I can get, I would be considering simply getting a cheap .223Rem and loading it down to Hornet levels until pistol powders become available again. You have enough case volume to make the velocities you're used to with the slower rifle powders that are still available. I run the .223 lower than Hornet velocities (52gn at 1750fps), but I run the .204 at Hornet levels (32gn at 2500fps) and enjoy both.

what powder are you using to download to hornet speeds ?

Bigrich, the yanks did all the hard work many years ago.
In general terms most of the faster shotty powders can be used.

Most of the data I use is from the Lyman Reloading Handbook 48th Ed. If you want a complete copy you can download it from here:

https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manual ... 20Manuals/

Be warned the pdf file is a 310 mb download. There are more manuals available to down load.


Attached: of equivalents that you MAY be able to use.
Attached: example 222 & 223 loads from Lyman Reloading Handbook 48th Ed

If your after good cheap cast bullets Blackwidowprojectiles.com.au 0403069089 in Melbourne

Obviously check equivalents carefully and double charging is the main risk due to cases often being less than half full.

I've read of some downloading to 3-4gr to achieve subsonic. Personally I just use a 22LR.

I'm using AS50N in my 233, 55gr superroo IIRC 7.6gr for approx 2000fps.

Lyman 48th squib 223 55gr.JPG (79.59 KiB) Viewed 3675 times

222 Cast Bullet squib loads.JPG (114.58 KiB) Viewed 3675 times

tempFileForShare_20240105-120052_171511858500145.jpg (201.84 KiB) Viewed 3675 times