Tumbler not doing the job any more

by effex » 17 Jun 2014, 11:52 am

Hi guys,

I've been reloading for a while now using a regular tumbler and walnut media.

I think I've put about 500 rounds through it now? .308 brass if it means anything.

It doesn't seem to do quite the job it used to. To start with outside of the brass looked brand spanking... now it's just a little duller? Inside the neck seems to keep more crap in it too?

The tumbler media still feels dry and hard to the touch. Is it the media or the tumbler that's not working so well now?

I got given my tumbler so had a free ride for a while, am I looking at buying one now?

Would it be wise to swap to an ultrasonic one while I have the opportunity?

Thanks.

by yoshie » 17 Jun 2014, 11:57 am

Probably needs a clean, I put mine in an old stocking and rinse it out. There are additives that people put in to get better results but I've never bothered. It'll need a few days on the line to dry out again. Also if that doesn't improve it you could get some more media.

by Shotfox » 17 Jun 2014, 12:07 pm

Ultrasonic is the way to go . No need to buy expensive cleaner either. I use Warm water, white vinigar, dishwashing liquid and salt. Cleans the cartriges better than any tumbler and really gets into the primer pockets well. I bought my ultrasonic cleaner from Aldi and works a treat.

by Baldrick314 » 17 Jun 2014, 12:19 pm

I reckon it's just your media getting old mate. Clean or replace it and you should be fine.

I've never had much success with ultrasonic cleaners but then I didn't try a whole heap either

by Kipper » 17 Jun 2014, 3:50 pm

Check out these photos effex.

You'd be amazed how much crap comes out of your media with a wash.

Before and after washing tumbler media.

by pawnee » 17 Jun 2014, 7:39 pm

I have been using stainless steel pins, they're the only way to go.

by petemacsydney » 17 Jun 2014, 7:55 pm

i've put 500 rounds through one of these U/S cleaners.
brilliant results in and out
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... 240v_.html

my only complaint is the reservoir is only 600ml

i plan to get one another one so i can double down. at $25 each plus postage, its a nice easy and cheap option

by Chronos » 17 Jun 2014, 8:26 pm

petemacsydney wrote:i've put 500 rounds through one of these U/S cleaners.
brilliant results in and out
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... 240v_.html

my only complaint is the reservoir is only 600ml

i plan to get one another one so i can double down. at $25 each plus postage, its a nice easy and cheap option

a little tip for u/s cleaners. i bought a couple of 1000ml pyrex beakers on ebay, fill them with your solution and just put a bit of tap water in the unit then put the beaker in the unit. the u/s waves pass through the beaker and travel up through the solution increasing the capacity of the unit

i'm sure there's some reduction in efficiency but it keep the machine cleaner and extending it's capacity

Chronos

by Rossi » 17 Jun 2014, 9:23 pm

Rotary Rock Tubler with stainless steel pin media, water, palmolive and lemi-shine dishwashing powder. Cleans brass newer than new. Puts corn cob media, walnut media and ultra sonic cleaners to shame. You tube it to see for yourself. I've been doing this for a little over a year and I always get results. Even the primer pockets turn out immaculate.

by Apollo » 17 Jun 2014, 9:42 pm

"effex" Walnut Media is aggressive, especially when it's new and the granules are sharp. It works well when new on really dirty tarnished cases but will not produce a mirror shine finish. The more you use any media the longer it will take to achieve the initial new result so extend your times.

Corn Cob will produce a much better mirror finish to cases externally but it takes longer. New Corn Cob Media is already treated with a cleaner / polish.

In my opinion neither does a very good job at cleaning cases internally as once they fill with media it really doesn't move / tumble / vibrate much on the inside to remove spent / burnt powder residue.

There really is little reason to fully clean the inside of cartridge cases. The whole idea is nice looking cases but more important making them easier to inspect for faults, keeping reloading dies in good order and cleaner plus highly polished cases just look nice.

I have only used Walnut Media a couple of times for really old dirty cases so I have not ever cleaned it and not sure of what the results may be from washing but I have had the same Corn Cob Media for several years, it has cleaned many hundreds if not thousands of cases and the media has been washed several times in a stocking, in a bucket with detergent then spread on tray to dry. Once dry it goes back in the tumbler and I add some Lyman Brite, run the tumbler until it's all absorbed and there are no lumps what so ever. The Lyman Brite tends to give a high polish, mirror finish but also leaves a coating which I have found stops the cases from tarnishing in storage. I have some done a couple of years ago and they are as shiny as the day they were done.

Do not ever add any additive that is based on Ammonia which will attack the brass and make it brittle / crack. One such product is Brasso..

The older you Media gets, the longer it will take to clean your cases as the Media gets smoother and less agressive. After many years my norm is now to leave cases tumbling overnight, take them out in the morning and give them a wipe with a cotton cloth to remove any dust...they shine.

A much better and longer process is to Ultrasonic clean first, dry and put in the tumbler. Clean inside and mirror finish on the outside...non aggressive.
The US Cleaner and solution I use is the Clean And Shiny as depicted here....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... -cleaning/

Same US Unit, some tricks. Better results using clean water, not city water full of chemicals ie Tank water, distilled water etc.

I use 500ml Pyrex Beakers, no bigger and do not stack them full of cases nor too much solution. They sit in water in the US unit but remember this, the quantity of water in the US, the number of cases in the beaker and the amount of solution will need to be tested. Less is better. US works on exactly that, ultrasonic energy and the little tranducer can only produce so much energy to achieve the desired result. The liquids when you have it correct should look like they are boiling and the cases will vibrate around the beaker. That's when it's working best.

I give them several 480 second runs on the first solution, after one or two the solution should begin to look really dirty. I remove primers first but not in a normal sizing die. I also clean the primer pockets first.

I don't bother with Metho, just dry them on top of my wood heater, oven at 100c or in summer out in the sun on a black coloured steel tray.

One problem with cleaning too clean, it will increase the bullet neck tension since the carbon coating is gone so it's best to replace that lubricant and I dip a nylon case brush in a graphite bottle then run the brush down case necks for the next firing.

One warning.... washing cleaning media or playing with dirty US solutions, don't get it on your skin as the rubbish removed from cartridge cases contains some pretty nasty chemicals, one being arsnic. Keeps you hands away and /or wear protective gloves.

by horter » 19 Jun 2014, 9:55 pm

If you want a cheap go at ultrasonic cleaners they had some at Aldi for $30 not long ago too.

by effex » 19 Jun 2014, 9:57 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the information.

I'll give it a wash first as that's the free solution and see how that goes.

I do have some corn media too, Apollo. Will try that as well.

I didn't realise ultrasonic cleaners could be had so cheap.

Might try one after too depending on the result.

by Apollo » 20 Jun 2014, 7:52 pm

A bit of a rough demonstration with some really old cases I found in my old shearing shed in a rusty tin full of rusty metal parts and some water. They are Winchester Brand .243W that I would estimate were purchased some time back in the 1970's and I'd say been laying in that tin since the mid 1980's. Not pretty...!!!!

Dried out on top of my wood heater and taken out into what little sun appeared amongst the rain today.

Here is what they looked like as a starting point.

Okay, into the Ultrasonic cleaner for an extended round of cycles with my "Clean and Shiny" routine which had been used a few times before and due to be thrown out but after these cases it really needed throwing out as it looked like mud. I did take some photos of this stage plus the solution but somehow in the changing of the camera battery they got deleted. Sorry, you would have laughed at the mess.

Anyway, into my Lyman Tumbler with Corn Cob that hasn't been washed for many years. It's near the end of it's life as the little granules are really like tiny round balls but still work to a degree. Time, 6 hours and the result is they look a lot better than how they started out. Could do with some more tumbling, perhaps in new media one day but they will do me for what their history is. Once in this state I could at least check each case and found a tiny crack in the lip of one case so it was destroyed (crushed).

BTW....when I crushed the neck of the dud case it cracked more than being just squashed so they may be a bit brittle in the neck area. Time to think about buying a Propane Torch and have an experiment with annealing case necks.

A comparison, some 3 times fired Lapua 30BR Cases. The inside light doesn't do wonders for these photos.

by effex » 20 Jun 2014, 10:06 pm

Nah the photos are heaps helpful, Apollo. Thanks.

Amazing how those .243 cases turned around. I'd have never thought you could save them.

by Apollo » 20 Jun 2014, 10:22 pm

Well, they do say a picture tells a thousand words.

If I remember and get a chance I'll re-take the photo's in sunlight and replace these dull looking one's.

The cases really do shine.

I suppose as I have said, my point is don't think old Media is not working, or your Tumbler is not working. Just give it more time to work.

I did not de-prime the cases before they were cleaned.

by Oldbloke » 21 Jun 2014, 5:44 am

petemacsydney wrote:i've put 500 rounds through one of these U/S cleaners.
brilliant results in and out
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... 240v_.html

my only complaint is the reservoir is only 600ml

i plan to get one another one so i can double down. at $25 each plus postage, its a nice easy and cheap option

How many cases does it hold and how long do you need to run it for? Do you only use water or a vinegar and salt solution?

by petemacsydney » 21 Jun 2014, 9:24 am

Oldbloke wrote:
petemacsydney wrote:i've put 500 rounds through one of these U/S cleaners.
brilliant results in and out
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... 240v_.html

my only complaint is the reservoir is only 600ml

i plan to get one another one so i can double down. at $25 each plus postage, its a nice easy and cheap option

How many cases does it hold and how long do you need to run it for? Do you only use water or a vinegar and salt solution?

aabout 30-40 cases, i use the lymans solution plus water and run them for about 10 minutes. if there is a lot of crap in the primer pocket or inside case i might run for another 5 mins tops
actually you may find you can get them even cheaper on ebay now adays!
i know i'm looking at a 2litre version there, but its about 100 clams. i might just get another $25 version and run two lots simulteneously.

by petemacsydney » 21 Jun 2014, 9:26 am

Apollo wrote:...............old cases I found in my old shearing shed in a rusty tin full of rusty metal parts and some water.......

dont know why you bothered cleaning them Apollo, they looked fine... ;-)

by Oldbloke » 21 Jun 2014, 11:45 am

Thanks petemacsydney, Just put on on order from ebay.

I did a search and found this on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99kGy8-bGXs

It looks like the lymans solution is not as good as the water, vinegar, salt, detergent solution. I have seen that recipe on other web sites also, see below. Obviously it would need to be scaled down for a 600ml US Cleaner

Hot water 4 parts (Cups)
Vinegar 1 part (Cups)
Dish soap-detergent 1 table spoon
Salt 1 table spoon

by petemacsydney » 21 Jun 2014, 4:11 pm

Thanks old bloke for that recipe. I've been meaning to try it!

Which one did you order from ebay?

by petemacsydney » 21 Jun 2014, 4:14 pm

ps, how good is that vinegar solution! i'll definitely try that ;-)

by Oldbloke » 21 Jun 2014, 5:08 pm

I tried the solution without the tumbler by just soaking for about 30 minutes with the occasional shake in a plastic container and it did clean them a fair bit, but not great. I'm hoping the US cleaner will get a better result. I don't shoot a lot so looking for a cheap option.

No US cleaner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8vJ7MiHAuI
With US cleaner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99kGy8-bGXs