Lubing cartridges for feeding/ejection problem?

[Chronos]

I think the problem may be that the case is designed to grip the inside of the chamber, helping to reduce the rearward thrust on the bolt during firing. any lube or oil in the chamber or on the case can create more pressure on the bolt face, you may notice this as the bolt being hard to lift.

it's important when you clean your barrel but it's also important to make sure no excessive oil is left in the chamber.

however in the example you gave of a benchrest rifle it's not uncommon during the fireforming phase of reloading new brass for this kind of gun to lube cases so they fully expand to fit the chamber. this could potentially be dangerous and is best left to those with the experience to do it safely. often fireforming is done with light loads, full loads with light bullets or even pistol powders and wax plugs instead of bullets.

Chronos

[scrolllock]

I think the problem may be that the case is designed to grip the inside of the chamber, helping to reduce the rearward thrust on the bolt during firing. any lube or oil in the chamber or on the case can create more pressure on the bolt face, you may notice this as the bolt being hard to lift.

Or the bolt smashing the guy in the face and sending him to hospital like happened here in VIC a few months ago.

If I remember right lubing the cases to make them eject smoothly was a major culprit of it.

[Chronos]

Or the bolt smashing the guy in the face and sending him to hospital like happened here in VIC a few months ago.

If I remember right lubing the cases to make them eject smoothly was a major culprit of it.

yeah obviously that's the worst case scenario.

Chronos

[tarnagulla]

There is also the problem of dust, grit etc. sticking to the case, making any feeding/ejecting issue even worse.

[AusC]

Or the bolt smashing the guy in the face and sending him to hospital like happened here in VIC a few months ago.

If I remember right lubing the cases to make them eject smoothly was a major culprit of it.

Assuming we're talking about the Blaser incident... From what I read on it there were additional factors which contributed to that including hot loads and ignoring obvious pressure signs.

Not to downplay the concerns of lubing cases for firing. Just FYI so all the information on that is available for consideration here.

[SendIt]

There is also the problem of dust, grit etc. sticking to the case, making any feeding/ejecting issue even worse.

+1

Potential dangers aside, lubing your cases is a band-aid solution IMO.

If you're rifle isn't feeding well you need to look at your case preparation and brass choice.

Switch to full length sizing instead of necks etc. Fix whatever is sticking instead of just lubing it.

[Old Fart]

As Chronos rightly points out, the primary concern is safety due to extra force being applied to the bolt face.

When fired, there is an initial spike of pressure inside the cartridge which dissipates as the bullet travels down the barrel and releases the pressure.

The initial pressure expands the case into the chamber walls creating friction which in part prevents the brass from moving backwards. The bolt face also stops this obviously. Once the pressure's gone, the friction is gone and the case can be ejected.

Lubricating the brass during firing cancels out this friction and more of the force is absorbed by the bolt face.

In the incident Scrolllock brought up this was enough to shear the lugs and send the bolt flying out the rear of the action into the shooters face.

If you decide to lube your cases for firing, on your own head be it.

[Chronos]

As Chronos rightly points out, the primary concern is safety due to extra force being applied to the bolt face.

When fired, there is an initial spike of pressure inside the cartridge which dissipates as the bullet travels down the barrel and releases the pressure.

The initial pressure expands the case into the chamber walls creating friction which in part prevents the brass from moving backwards. The bolt face also stops this obviously. Once the pressure's gone, the friction is gone and the case can be ejected.

Lubricating the brass during firing cancels out this friction and more of the force is absorbed by the bolt face.

In the incident Scrolllock brought up this was enough to shear the lugs and send the bolt flying out the rear of the action into the shooters face.

If you decide to lube your cases for firing, on your own head be it.

Was also an issue in some original Omark bolts with the smaller diameter pin from what little I know about them.

Chronos

[bunnybuster]

If you decide to lube your cases for firing, on your own head be it.

Or is that in your face ?

Be Safe BB.

[Guliver]

Some .22 LR I've used in pistols comes pre lubed, just can't find a brand name at the moment.

[Chronos]

Some .22 LR I've used in pistols comes pre lubed, just can't find a brand name at the moment.

Almost all .22lr ammo is lubed, sometimes with a dry wax, sometimes with a grease. This is a different thing all together as the chamber pressures don't even come close to that of most centerfire cartridges.

Chronos

[Antie]

If you decide to lube your cases for firing, on your own head be it.

Or is that in your face ?

"a bolt into your own face at high velocity" just doesn't have quite the same poetry to it as "on your own head be it"

[RoginaJack]

When a cartridge is fired, there is pressure and heat generated, lots of heat as anyone would know if they're tried to catch a shell ejected from a auto-loader.

With lube on the brass, it could hamper the brass from expanding uniformly into the chamber and then springing back. This could result in excessive pressure being generated and/or the heat generated by the propellant causing the lube to ignite or even "explode" and rupturing the firearm.Not to mention, rupturing the case as well.

The only 22LR cartridges I've come across have had the lead bullets coated in a wax or grease like substance but not the actual shell casing.

If the rounds are hard to chamber, try increasing the neck or shoulder resizing and work your way down until it fits. A problem with full length resizing after each firing is that it over-works the brass and results in cracked/split and short life cartridges.

Cheers..

[Wilso1994]

Well during my recent reloading activities I came across something that had me stumped. My dad set up my bullet seating die for me about 8 months ago and I have been using it they way he set it since then until a few days ago. I have had an issue with my howa bolt not closing smoothly. So I grab my lee collet neck sizing die and wind it out 1/8 of a turn so I can push a projectile into the neck of my case by fingertip. I then chamber the round and close my bolt (no primer or powder just projectile), I pull the now correctly seated round out and throw it in my press, adjust my die and run all of my already loaded bullets with this new depth. Worked like a charm.

I don't know if this could fix the issue you're having with your rifle bit feeding correctly but for god sakes do not lube your bullets especially not in a center fire rifle.

Not only can this send a bolt into your face (worst case scenario) but it can also bulge your barrel if any of that lubrication just happened to slip past the projectile as the round is being chambered. I hope this recent experience of mine helps you in some way

[Will]

however in the example you gave of a benchrest rifle it's not uncommon during the fireforming phase of reloading new brass for this kind of gun to lube cases so they fully expand to fit the chamber.

I don't claim to be a benchrest pro but that's news to me?

I'd have thought the lube would prevent the case from matching the chamber perfectly. It adds some space between the two after all?

[roob]

Might be a different thing here but I remember seeing guys who had dented cases from too much lube and a little bead of it forces a dent in the case, is that right?

[Blackened]

Roob,

I suspect you're thinking of running it through the resizing die creating that dent. Not fire forming it.

[roob]

You might be right B.

Thanks.

[Warrigul]

Roob,

I suspect you're thinking of running it through the resizing die creating that dent. Not fire forming it.

Very- VERY occasionally neck dents will appear with light loads or when fire forming. But yes it is normally associated with excess lube during full length sizing.

[roob]

Hi Warrigul,

Yep, I've got it.

I did some searching and founds pics of peoples reloading when they had lubed the cases too much and caused a dent. Understood now.