Reduced loads danger picture

[Humir]

Found this Googling for other stuff.

Thought it might be interesting for newbie reloaders or peeps working up reduced loads.

reduced_loads.jpg (38.52 KiB) Viewed 5263 times

Thought I'd share, hope someone finds it useful.

[newsteadvic]

I don't know if you are the same person that posted this on Shooting Australia, however it needs the same reply that users over there suggested - the crucial piece of information that the author has left out there is that this effect, sometimes refered to as the SEE (secondary explosive effect) occurs with slow powders.

The very fast pistol/shotgun powders and medium speed powders lie AR2205, AR2207, AR2206H can be safely reduced, as witnessed by factory data for reduced loads with these powders. This is from the ADI reloading handbook:

[Warrigul]

I don't know if you are the same person that posted this on Shootingaustralia.com.au forum:
http://shootingaustralia.net/forum/relo ... rea#128013
However it needs the same reply that users over there suggested - the crucial piece of information that the author has left out there is that this effect, sometimes refered to as the SEE (secondary explosive effect) occurs with slow powders. The very fast pistol/shotgun powders and medium speed powders lie AR2205, AR2207, AR2206H can be safely reduced, as witnessed by factory data for reduced loads with these powders. THis is from the ADI reloading handbook:

You have nailed it, I have loaded thousands of reduced load rounds and never had an issue, I stick to the faster powders.

Information is the key.

[Humir]

newsteadvic,

Nope. That's not me. Just offering the picture as I hadn't seen it before and hope it might be useful, interesting to some rather than just an written explanation.

Happy to have the extra info added here.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Yep. The case should be around 70% full for safety.

If you use filler, add the weight of the filler to the weight of the projectile, also for safety.

Josh

[newsteadvic]

Welcome Josh, interesting to have some overseas input.

However I again feel that this statement needs some context. yes, for slow powders ( which for Australian purposes I would consider AR2208 (varget for the cousins)) and slower powders to need at least 80% case fill.

However I feel quite confident about reducing fast powders, examples being Hodgdons rule for AR2206h (H4895 for the cousins) which states that you can reduce up to 60% of max jacketed loads without filler, for cast or jacketed projectiles. For cast projectiles and fast powders you could go even lower as per books like the Lyman Cast Handbook 3rd Ed and 4th.

I do not use filler for reduced loads so cannot talk to that point.

[Tiiger]

However I again feel that this statement needs some context.

Yes, there are are too many 'rule of thumb' for these kinds of thing which without context are wrong if not potentially dangerous.

To OP or anyone developing a load, it always pays to find out the particulars for the powder you're actually using, not just general information.

[snag]

I've always been wary about reducing loads in bigger calibres because of the risk of blow ups, but now I've gotten on to Trail Boss and it's as safe as houses. With a bit of experimenting with charges and projectiles you can actually get pretty good accuracy from it.

[Blr243]

I was impressed with the trailboss powder and it’s guidelines for safe use until I tried a full case of it ( not compressed ) in my 300 blk behind a 160 grain hornady flex tip .... bang, hiss, and the projectile stuck in the barrel with just the tip of it poking out the end if the barrel. I’ll be pulling all those projectiles and starting again with caution

[mickb]

Welcome Josh, interesting to have some overseas input.

However I again feel that this statement needs some context. yes, for slow powders ( which for Australian purposes I would consider AR2208 (varget for the cousins)) and slower powders to need at least 80% case fill.

However I feel quite confident about reducing fast powders, examples being Hodgdons rule for AR2206h (H4895 for the cousins) which states that you can reduce up to 60% of max jacketed loads without filler, for cast or jacketed projectiles. For cast projectiles and fast powders you could go even lower as per books like the Lyman Cast Handbook 3rd Ed and 4th.

I do not use filler for reduced loads so cannot talk to that point.

I agree, needs context. A lot of pistol and other smaller cylindrical cases can be loaded lower than even 50%.

A 3.2 grain load of win231 in 357 mag is about 25% capacity.

I think the article is just outlining the danger of making up your own extremely reduced data, and probably pertains mostly to bottleneck and high powered cartridges. In pistol calibres the biggest danger for reduced loads is just squibs aka bullet stuck in barrel.

[mickb]

I was impressed with the trailboss powder and it’s guidelines for safe use until I tried a full case of it ( not compressed ) in my 300 blk behind a 160 grain hornady flex tip .... bang, hiss, and the projectile stuck in the barrel with just the tip of it poking out the end if the barrel. I’ll be pulling all those projectiles and starting again with caution

Blr243, that would have looked damned funny. But I'm glad you checked before firing another. Incidences like this should be reported in my opinion. If it did occur as you say and the case was decently filled, Im pretty sure that its product failure and a safety issue. ADI powders should be told.

[SCJ429]

I was impressed with the trailboss powder and it’s guidelines for safe use until I tried a full case of it ( not compressed ) in my 300 blk behind a 160 grain hornady flex tip .... bang, hiss, and the projectile stuck in the barrel with just the tip of it poking out the end if the barrel. I’ll be pulling all those projectiles and starting again with caution

How much Trailboss did you put in the case? Very surprised it didn't develop enough pressure to push it out of the barrel. Never had a problem with Trailboss shooting between 1000 and 1500 fps.

[bladeracer]

I was impressed with the trailboss powder and it’s guidelines for safe use until I tried a full case of it ( not compressed ) in my 300 blk behind a 160 grain hornady flex tip .... bang, hiss, and the projectile stuck in the barrel with just the tip of it poking out the end if the barrel. I’ll be pulling all those projectiles and starting again with caution

Tried magnum primers?
I get the "bang...hiss" with ridiculously light loads, never had it with any sort of decent TB load, even in bigger cases like .30-06 and 8x57mm.

[bladeracer]

How much Trailboss did you put in the case? Very surprised it didn't develop enough pressure to push it out of the barrel. Never had a problem with Trailboss shooting between 1000 and 1500 fps.

Same here, I use a lot of Trailboss. I get bullets stuck in the bores but only from really, really light loads, like under 500fps.

[Oldbloke]

Ill just leave this here.

reduced loads .jpg (39.15 KiB) Viewed 3860 times

And this;

Reduced loads 60% max 2206H.JPG (72.59 KiB) Viewed 3860 times

Both out of the ADI manual.

If you are certain there was plenty of trail boss in the case Id suggest you should email ADI and give them the details of the load and what happened. They will want to know.

[Blr243]

This was the first and only time I have ever had trouble with trailboss. I can’t remember the charge but I remember the top of the charge just touching the base of the seated projectile .......it freaked me out especially when I had good volume No space at all. It happened on a hunt when I was testing loads into a dam wall ....when I find time I should retry just to make sure I did everything right on the day. If I can duplicate the load and I get five successful shots I can probably put it down to me stuffing something up on that trip away

[Oldbloke]

If I can duplicate the load and I get five successful shots I can probably put it down to me stuffing something up on that trip away

My bet is you under charged the powder some how.