Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

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Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by wictor » 29 Sep 2014, 3:27 pm

Hi guys,

Some pre-info from the ADI website...

Take special care when working up trial loads with slow burning powders in large calibre cartridges. Light loads in some calibres may produce occasional dangerously high pressures. It is suggested that minimum loads in large calibre cartridges should not be reduced below about 75% case capacity.


From other reading, if I understand the risk right it's because if a case is full as soon as powder's burning it's pushing the bullet down the barrel and the pressure is on the way out the whole time.

With too much room in the case the problem is the powder detonates inside the brass and hits the stationery bullet so there is a spike before it beats the friction holding the bullet in place.

Right?

So the question is, if you had a case at 65% full and filled the remainded with something suitable to fill the space and make the case capacity 100% does that address the safety problem?

I haven't started reloading yet. I'm just doing research for some low recoil loads.

Thanks.
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by Chronos » 29 Sep 2014, 4:50 pm

want low recoil? buy a smaller cartridge IMHO

corn flour, dacron and other fillers have been used but there's no substitute for the correct cartridge and powder

powders like ADI trail boss are developed to fill cases with light loads allowing you to safely shoot subsonic loads, imho you'd be taking a risk playing with anything else, especially with zero experience

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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by newsteadvic » 29 Sep 2014, 7:11 pm

As Chronos suggests it can be done however I would suggest fillers are for advanced reloaders once you have some by-the-book reloads under your belt.

There are non-filler, Factory provided loads for low recoil reloading however, using H4895 (re-packaged AR2206H and only with this powder), for jacketed or cast lead projectiles:
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

And there are non-filler factory provided loads using Trail Boss:
[urlhttp://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf[/url]

If you are a neophyte reloader I suggest trialing some ADI data standard loads or the Hodgdon AR2206H loads without a filler.
Last edited by newsteadvic on 29 Sep 2014, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by yoshie » 29 Sep 2014, 9:20 pm

Using fillers isn't really ideal, some have had success. Seating the bullet further down in the case is better however the pressure rises much quicker and can be quite dangerous. As stated above its best to use standard loads for you case/cartridge. If you want a light recoiling 357 mag use 38 special or buy a 32 s&w long or a 22LR. If you want a sub sonic 223 buy a 22LR and use subs. I'd say Dacron filler in a bottle necked case would be very dangerous.
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by RealNick » 30 Sep 2014, 12:14 pm

Chronos wrote:corn flour, dacron and other fillers have been used


"They" say Polenta is one of the best options.
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by wictor » 30 Sep 2014, 3:33 pm

newsteadvic wrote:As Chronos suggests it can be done however I would suggest fillers are for advanced reloaders once you have some by-the-book reloads under your belt.


Fair enough.

I'm definitely not in the advanced reloader boat yet.
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by Chronos » 30 Sep 2014, 4:54 pm

RealNick wrote:
Chronos wrote:corn flour, dacron and other fillers have been used


"They" say Polenta is one of the best options.



yeah, they say the smell of it upon firing makes you hungry :lol:

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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by Hinky » 02 Oct 2014, 3:41 pm

I wouldn't say it's appetizing but there is something nice about the smell of burnt powder ;)
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2014, 4:19 pm

yoshie wrote:Using fillers isn't really ideal, some have had success. Seating the bullet further down in the case is better however the pressure rises much quicker and can be quite dangerous. As stated above its best to use standard loads for you case/cartridge. If you want a light recoiling 357 mag use 38 special or buy a 32 s&w long or a 22LR. If you want a sub sonic 223 buy a 22LR and use subs. I'd say Dacron filler in a bottle necked case would be very dangerous.


I've also been toying with the idea of lower velocity .223rem loads for a "quieter" pest control experience. I do use the 22lr regularly but range and terminal performance can be disappointing. My theory was that using the 223 charged to about 22mag or HV 22lr velocity and a highly frangible "varmint' bullet would expand more reliably on the light bodies critters i shoot and give more consistent terminal performance than the 22lr bullets. Also, it would be cheaper to reload than buying a 17hmr or 22wrm.

Am i barking up the wrong tree? Will these Vmax or Varmint Grenade type bullets perform better at these speeds than the hollow point 22lr rounds i use?

Slightly off topic, i guess, but related to previous comments.

Cheers

PS: edit: I would be using Trailboss, not small charges with a filler.
Last edited by Gwion on 08 Oct 2014, 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by bunnybuster » 08 Oct 2014, 2:40 am

Using filler,especially a solid noncombustible like polenta in a bottle neck case is really asking for trouble,filler in straight wall cases

is a totally different application where there is no "funnel" to cause a pressure spike as the filler is driven into the neck of the case.

I have used kapok in straight cases over the years to fill over light charges of smokeless powder,totally consumed in the barrel,

Be Safe BB
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Re: Solving low case capacity safety risks by using filler?

Post by Lorgar » 08 Oct 2014, 8:53 am

Hinky wrote:I wouldn't say it's appetizing but there is something nice about the smell of burnt powder ;)


I'm pretty sure Noisydad has a little pile of burning black power and his house constantly instead of incense.
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