Reloading what and how & why

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 11 Oct 2014, 6:13 pm

Reloading, there is here a whole section devoted to the topic, but little actual information, if I am allowed to say this.

Possibly the first question a shooter, and I care not if the shoot, pistol or rifle calibres, or even shotgun, all possible, all less expensive all the finished product will be what you want from the end process. I own some toy pistols and two rifles and to be truthful in over 20 years I have not purchased 1 round or ever used one round of factory (crap) ammunition. I now retract that statement as I do not reload my .22 rounds, stupid me. .223 yes. Sorry.

Why reload, I can think of many reasons to reload in any calibre but not one reason to not reload one's own. Price, much lower, consistency of load perfect, and if you want to make sure ask anyone who has shoot in the Queens' Shoot, .303. With hunters they know what game they seek, hence, reload your own and firstly you will know what is in the round and that it is adequate for the job. If you are not a hunter but want to put neat holes in paper, all the better, all loads the same, all projectiles the same, save heaps of cash, and I mean heaps. What is needed, a loading press, single or multi stage, lots are out there, brass you would already have, in fact what do shooters who don't reload do with their brass? Powder, lots of powder out there, ADI is my favourite, locally made, and if you don't like ADI try Winchester. projectiles, heaps out there, bulk buys, whatever the grns required, someone makes them.

NB: With reloading powder manuals, be aware the powder manufacturer is playing on the safe side of any loads, (legal ramifications) don't let that deter you, it just another aspect of shooting. I it nice to shoot a round you have made, once you have developed a specific load, the muzzle velocity will be what you determine, the projectile weight is specific to your hunting, and it gives great satisfaction and at the end of a year, depending on how much you shoot, a new rifle is on the cards, that's how much it will save you. No, your rifle won't blow up, if you are not happy, barrel drop a finished round into the chamber to ensure it seats, and the Winchester reloading guide is fantastic, cover all calibres, all firearms.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Chronos » 11 Oct 2014, 7:40 pm

Thanks for writing that cavok.

I've been reloading since I bought my first rifle as well. I now reload hunting ammo for .204r, .243, 7-08, .308 and target ammo for. 6ppc, 6br, 7-08 and .284w

In your equipment list I think you should add a few items I don't think you should be without before you start reloading.

Measuring equipment. In order to reproduce loaded rounds that are consistent in length you will need vernier calipers. Not only are consistent length rounds more accurate but it can be dangerous to shoot hot loads that are seated into the rifling lands.

Powder weighing scales. Wether it be a beam scale or automatic powder dispenser you need something to produce accurate powder loads, again this is both an accuracy and a safety issue.

Thirdly I don't think you should say "no your rifle won't blow up" if you stray outside what's safe that's exactly what CAN happen. How can you guarantee what's safe? Stick to the load data provided by the powder manufacturers. It has been tested to the same standards that were used to manufacture your rifle. Sure sons reloaders use loads that are outside the safe ranges but you need to know what things to look out for when working up a load so you can see the signs that you are approaching case failure.

You also say "drop a finished round into the chamber to it seats" I'd feel more comfortable if you clarified that to make sure new reloaders aren't chambering live rounds in their lounge room or shed. A safer method us to chamber a dummy round (no powder, no primer) with the selected bullet seated into a partly sized neck. When the bullet engages the rifling it will push back into the case and when ejected can be measured as a base COAL length other future loads can be compared to.

There's lots to learn (and buy) once you really get involved in reloading and it's a great hobby for those who take an interest in it

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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 11 Oct 2014, 8:00 pm

Hi Chronos, I agree with everything you say. I was unsure as to how advanced shooters here were, I stupidly assumed all would err on the side of caution, IF you don't know don't load, ask, twice to make sure you got it right.

If this section of the forum is for reloading, there perhaps needs to be a beginners guide to the galaxy, sorry, to reloading. Step 1, presses suitable for the task, NEVER exceed recommended load limits, always err on the side of caution. Check powder scales for correct amount, seat projectile to the recommended length, AND drop your made round into the barrel, see if it fits, if you are unsure, there is no silly reason to close the chamber. My bad.

A great place to start the learning experience is buy buying or borrowing the Winchester Reloading Manual, mine is the 2003 edition.

In the rifle section it begins with reloading the .222 trim length, OAL (Over all length) which projectile in grns suits, there are several, also the measurement of OAL and all other dimensions, pictures provided. It provides muzzle fps. and psi pressure, do not exceed. Goes all the way to 458 Winchester magnum. Then pistol loads. ADI have a similar publication and once a shooter decides this is the way to go, ask questions and in a short period of time you will know many of the answers.

There is lots to learn but the end result will make you a more knowledgeable shooter, and you save heaps in the process.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 12 Oct 2014, 9:06 am

As an addendum to my above post, and having thought about it, we all run bolt action rifles in sunny Australia. Hence when you wish to barrel drop your home made round as I do if a major match or event is being held.
1. Remove bolt from barrel, takes all of several seconds, depending on. Ammunition and rifles being capable of firing not in the same room.
2. Always have a test, factory round handy, drop this in the barrel, see to what depth it goes, then remove, it just falls out, and drop in your home made, less expensive, purpose built for the job at hand round.
3. Look pleased when they all fit and then gather up life rounds, (all of them) place away in safe storage, retrieve the bolt and secure action, lock away in safe.

In Victoria and I am certain this occurs in other states and clubs. There is usually a small company that specialises in reloading. Again a big saving on new ammunition, they or the one in Melbourne are extremely professional, will load all rifle rounds to your or their own specifications. THEY do take care, their reputation.
Also most clubs have enthusiasts who will load for others, this you need to decide based on your interaction with the person, most are extremely careful, will load your ammunition, and if asked will possibly show you and teach you what they know if asked.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Jack V » 12 Oct 2014, 5:44 pm

That is no way to test the chamber fit of a round , if I am understanding you . The empty case should be tested for fit with the bolt in and closing it on the empty case. Size as required to get the correct fit then load the case . Unless the chamber is a tight neck it's a very rare situation that the neck will not fit after sizing and loading in normal commercial made dies . If the case is sized right to start with the rounds will fit well.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Warrigul » 12 Oct 2014, 5:59 pm

Jack V wrote:That is no way to test the chamber fit of a round , if I am understanding you . The empty case should be tested for fit with the bolt in and closing it on the empty case. Size as required to get the correct fit then load the case . Unless the chamber is a tight neck it's a very rare situation that the neck will not fit after sizing and loading in normal commercial made dies . If the case is sized right to start with the rounds will fit well.


+1

I have a guages in .223 and .308 to check but it is never an issue if they are done right in the first place.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 12 Oct 2014, 6:29 pm

Yes that is, it's called dropping the complete round into a barrel, for persons without gauges or just not sure. I once had a person/ close friend make me 100 .233 rounds as I was busy. On the day they where required, not one fitted, all that fraction to long, most embarrassing.

So I mentioned barrel drop as ONE of several ways to ensure no embarrassing situation.

Once one round of a batch fits, if all others are the same, they all pass.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Jack V » 12 Oct 2014, 7:19 pm

Never heard the term " barrel drop " . Re- loading rounds without reference to the gun they will be used in is never a good idea.
I still don't get what you mean ? If you don't use the bolt how will you tell that the round fits correctly ?
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Warrigul » 12 Oct 2014, 7:39 pm

cavok wrote:Yes that is, it's called dropping the complete round into a barrel, for persons without gauges or just not sure. I once had a person/ close friend make me 100 .233 rounds as I was busy. On the day they where required, not one fitted, all that fraction to long, most embarrassing.

So I mentioned barrel drop as ONE of several ways to ensure no embarrassing situation.

Once one round of a batch fits, if all others are the same, they all pass.


What do you suggest if one sticks whilst doing these checks?

I mean there are very valid reasons why it is against every safety rule on the range to knock it out with a cleaning rod.

Forcing an extractor over a stuck round rim may also cause it to jam in even tighter.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Jack V » 12 Oct 2014, 8:00 pm

Exactly right , That is why I don't advise testing live rounds for fit in the gun . A very experienced re loader can do it as they know when to back off on a round and not jam it . If one gets stuck and the extractor can't pull it out , it may be better to leave the bolt out , bag it up and take it to a gunsmith .

Transport it with the barrel pointing down as much as possible . The round will not go off transporting it if the bolt is not in the gun.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 12 Oct 2014, 8:32 pm

Why and how could a round be so securely stuck in a chamber if a person dropped it in, looked at the fall as the bolt is not in the way, realised it is not seating, puts a cleaning rod, over length into the front and with a very minor push pops it out. I will not respond to the rest of your remarks, but thank for pointing out the short comings of 1 (one) of the ways I suggest to establish possible issues if no gauges are near at hand.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by brett1868 » 12 Oct 2014, 10:27 pm

I've just been through the process of reforming a pile of 50BMG brass into 416 Barrett then loading 50 rounds. I test chambered every round and not wanting to blow a .416" hole through anything within a couple of kilometres, I removed the firing pin from the bolt along with the trigger action. A very simple solution if you want to test chamber loaded rounds. This week I'll make a dummy round, ream out the case neck till the projectile is a finger tight fit and use that to work out my seating depth. For rounds that stick due to being seated too shallow I'm not sure how people do that if they setup the seating die properly. I measure every 2nd or 3rd round I load and for the serious stuff (338Lap, 375Chey) I measure every round and run them through a concentricity gauge as well. Reloading is a serious business and all care must be taken to not blow your own head off. Cavok is merely pointing out some methods rather than laying down any law, I like forums due to all the different opinions and ideas. I take what I think makes sense then do some additional research before implementing into my reloading regime.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Chronos » 13 Oct 2014, 5:42 am

brett1868 wrote:. Reloading is a serious business and all care must be taken to not blow your own head off. Cavok is merely pointing out some methods rather than laying down any law, I like forums due to all the different opinions and ideas. I take what I think makes sense then do some additional research before implementing into my reloading regime.



That's spot in Brett, my initial point was that the opening post was written in the style of an article for first time reloaders and written in my opinion in a way that made out there weren't any risks with lines like the ones I pointed out in my first post.

While we all reload safely I'd gate for a new reloader to read that and chamber a live round at home without thinking if things like removing the firing pin. I'm overly catiouse of making vague statements to people that may not have the experience to apply what is common sense to you or I. There are accepted methods and equipment for all these things and anyone beginning reloading is well advised to follow these accepted and proven accuracy and safety methods

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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Gwion » 13 Oct 2014, 7:38 am

Personally, having only started reloading about 10 or 11 months ago, i don't chamber any live round unless i intend to fire it at something.

What i do is follow the advice in the 4 different reloading manuals i have read and make a dummy round for each bullet i am loading. This is an unprimed, uncharged cartridge with the bullet seated to be touching the lands of my rifling. There are various ways to measure and set this length, some of which are easier than others if you have the appropriate tools. The way i do it is painfully tedious, but works. Look up how to do, as this is not an instructional post, just sharing what process i follow for safe chambering rounds.

I then use that dummy round to set my seating die, gently, gently so you don't move the bullet. I have previously determined how far a 1/4 turn, a 1/2 turn and a full turn of the seating stem will push the bullet into the case. For arguments sake, i want my ogive 0.020" (20 thou) off the lands, so i screw the stem in a full turn and seat the bullet into the dummy round that much further into the case (or seat a fresh bullet into a fresh unprimed, uncharged case if i want the "length to lands" as a reference dummy for future use). Check it with calipers and (preferably) a comparator and make any further adjustments so that the dummy round is exactly the length you want your finished round to be.

Now, drop your DUMMY ROUND in the chamber, or put it in your magazine and cycle it through. When all is good, i start reloading cartridges.
If i want to experiment with different seating depths nfor that bullet, i will use my original dummy round to set the seating stem, them adujst the stem according to the new desired seating depth and make another dummy round. With a small triangluar file, i will then file a single notch into the base rim of the original dummy and two notches into the second, etc. I will record the length of each dummy round in my note book with a small diagram of the identifying notches next to the length listing and type/weight of bullet. I have 4 dummy rounds for Vmax 50gn, because i experimented with 4 seating depths. I use the appropriate dummy to set the seating stem when ever i set up to load some cases.

My final load data will then read something like: 50gn Vmax, Rem 71/2 br primer, 25.4gr BM2, dummy round #1

Make sure the cases in your dummy round have been prepped as for your reloading; trimmed to length and sized as per your reloads.

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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Fry » 13 Oct 2014, 8:33 am

cavok wrote:Reloading, there is here a whole section devoted to the topic, but little actual information, if I am allowed to say this.


That's a bit harsh to everyone who's contributed info there :P
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 13 Oct 2014, 9:54 am

Fry wrote:
cavok wrote:Reloading, there is here a whole section devoted to the topic, but little actual information, if I am allowed to say this.


That's a bit harsh to everyone who's contributed info there :P


I was not and am not being negative, but in many of the posts there is information, on brands to purchase, and all manner of facts but no real
information on why, how and what can be reloaded, either in pistol or more importantly rifle as many shooters here are more interested in the latter, both for hunting or competition.

Dillon my preferred manual loading very inexpensive press, and I know there are many more manufactured, that allow a novice, to begin loading, with the hopeful advice they get from forum members and reloading publication. All they need to start is a modest budget, (less than $1000) one calibre to start with, empty cases, buy powder, calliper, buy some small rifle primers or other, projectiles suitable to their needs and follow instructions on amount of powder required. MOST good shops that sell a press will spend time with the customer (hopefully) explaining basics and safety. If the shop does not, find a shop that will. Also forum members here from my reading of their posts are extremely familiar with the process, and highly experienced. We all need to learn, and where to begin, the why is also critical, why bother if its less expensive to buy rounds than to load your own, the cost savings if a person shoot more than average is significant. This link is a start. Be safe, load and then check powder to ensure you do not overload or use the wrong powder. If unsure ask, get advice from people who know and are willing to help. Remember, use the right powder as recommended by powder manufacturer for your round, the correct projectile weight for your intended use, (game). Check case length and ensure correct before reloading, trim to correct length, seat projectile to correct depth and ensure overall dimensions OAL (over all length) are correct. Proceed with caution til you know you have got it right, the benefits are worth the effort.
In Australia we have a great powder manufacturer, whom I would support, ADI, sold many shops, then my secondary powder comes from Winchester, their range of primers and projectiles suitable for your needs are also sold here. Finally, if in doubt ask, or ask anyway, double check till you feel comfortable and realise you are doing it correctly, then share the knowledge with others who ask.

Web site quote"The interchangeable toolhead makes it quick, easy and inexpensive to change calibers. For example, if you load 30-06 for elk, .243 for deer and .22-250 for coyote, you don't even have to change the shellplate. You simply pull two pins and swap the toolhead with your 30-06 dies to another toolhead with your .22-250 or .243 dies in less than 30 seconds! The additional toolheads are $20.95 each, or $18.95 each if you buy three or more- if you load for several rifles it's a no-brainer! Once you get your dies set you'll never have to re-set them."

A powder measure adapter is available if you want to use a manual measure that you already own. Or, if you want to weigh every powder charge you load, it's easy- you can use a powder trickler with the powder die/ funnel assembly that comes with the BL550.

Caliber conversions and dies sold separately.

http://www.dillonprecision.com.au/image ... onstrain=1
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Warrigul » 13 Oct 2014, 12:00 pm

I don't wish to put you off and I don't want to sound patronising. I can see what you are trying to achieve, and the intent is honorable, but in some ways you are generalising a little too much for a beginner and then making assumptions about prior knowledge. Most people new to the sport come into contact with the reloading bug but to be honest they would be better off buying one of the many reloading manuals and following it verbatim rather than trying to use a forum.

The best way to learn is at someone elses bench, I was very lucky in having a very experienced club member teach me the basics and then mentor me as I went along. Most will rely on others and literature. EVERYONE will make some mistakes and hopefully learn more as they go along.

I think kindly, experienced mentors, such as yourself, and good quality manuals are the best place for a new reloader to start. Forums will often solve specific problems and that is their forte.

Any forum needs input and I did enjoy your pistol article.

Just my humble opinions.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 13 Oct 2014, 12:24 pm

Thank you for that, point taken. I unfortunately never had a mentor. When my brother had no interest in shooting on my fathers property I was handed the rifle, from there on I learnt. My father was a photographer for the AGE, he never taught me photography he handed me a camera and again learnt all skills required, took years but that was how my father did it. Hence years ago I went to a small shop, purchased a Dillon Square deal press, and learnt what was needed, still here, never blew myself up. Your are correct in what you say, but sometimes I wished someone had handed me some information, never had forums or Google back in the sixties or seventies.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Chronos » 13 Oct 2014, 1:19 pm

Cavok it may come as a surprise to you given you repeatedly mention cost but to me and the majority of reloaders the decision to reload has nothing to do with cost (high volume shooters like IPSC being the exception)

For myself reloading is the only way to control both the reloading components and the load itself for optimum accuracy and if hunting effectiveness.

A deer hunter who only shoots 10-20 animals a year would take a long time to recoup the cost if reloading gear.

For him reloading is about making his rifle more accurate and choising the best bullet for his intended game

For a target shooter, the off the shelf options rarely shoot any better than premium hunting ammo and reloading offers him a 1/2 moa accuracy improvement or more

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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 13 Oct 2014, 2:12 pm

Chronos wrote:Cavok it may come as a surprise to you given you repeatedly mention cost but to me and the majority of reloaders the decision to reload has nothing to do with cost (high volume shooters like IPSC being the exception)

For myself reloading is the only way to control both the reloading components and the load itself for optimum accuracy and if hunting effectiveness.

A deer hunter who only shoots 10-20 animals a year would take a long time to recoup the cost if reloading gear.

For him reloading is about making his rifle more accurate and choising the best bullet for his intended game

For a target shooter, the off the shelf options rarely shoot any better than premium hunting ammo and reloading offers him a 1/2 moa accuracy improvement or more

Chronos


I am pleased that in what you wrote I 100% agree, I agree with every word you wrote, how could one not? However to some shooters everything revolves around cost, they buy the least expensive gun, and I am speaking about rifles and some absolutely crap pistols. They find all manner of ammunition on special, heaps out there, dealers are the worst, bulk buy then get rid of it as fast as they can. Usedguns.com has a great deal of cheap, not inexpensive ammunition for sale, all calibres, just look under Ammunition / Reloading. Some packets look to old, not for me.
As for the reference you make to controlling components for optimum accuracy and then effectiveness/game selection is what it SHOULD be about, but not to some. As for rifle target shooters they have the most to gain, assuming they do put a number of rounds down range.

As for any deer hunter who only shoots 20 deer per year, no benefit to them, maybe not. But while practicing their skill set many years prior to that date, they put heaps of rounds down range, I know one such person, now not so many. He purchased a single stage press back in the dim dark ages, has great pleasure in telling me so whenever I see him, still going strong, I once jokingly said the best he could reload was 30-40 per hour, he said that all ne ever needs :D . Hence also great for professional deer hunters, who seldom shoot (now).
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Warrigul » 13 Oct 2014, 2:43 pm

Chronos wrote:Cavok it may come as a surprise to you given you repeatedly mention cost but to me and the majority of reloaders the decision to reload has nothing to do with cost (high volume shooters like IPSC being the exception)

For myself reloading is the only way to control both the reloading components and the load itself for optimum accuracy and if hunting effectiveness.

A deer hunter who only shoots 10-20 animals a year would take a long time to recoup the cost if reloading gear.

For him reloading is about making his rifle more accurate and choising the best bullet for his intended game

For a target shooter, the off the shelf options rarely shoot any better than premium hunting ammo and reloading offers him a 1/2 moa accuracy improvement or more

Chronos


Bullshite I reckon it is all about cost for 90% of reloaders, I hate reloading and I don't know anyone that particularly loves it either.

I have just bought 1000 rounds of remington .303 for a dollar a round because it is close to what I can reload 174 FMJ for (73 cents a round). It is worth the 27 cents to not have to frig around with .303 for a few months.

It may be fun for a target shooter, well for the first 10,000 or so rounds anyway, but if I could buy as good as I make I would do so.

On the hunting scene I can't see any difference between my reloads or winchester supreme, both fast, as accurate as the user the only difference the supremes are 2.50 a round versus 90 cents- the ONLY reason I reload for this deer rifle.

Usually those obsessed with "hunting effectiveness" haven't hunted much.

If it weren't for cost then I can think of many better ways to spend hours of my life. I enjoy sending them down range, reloading not so much.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 13 Oct 2014, 5:01 pm

Apologies, with respect, why the hell would anyone buy .303 rounds, why the hell would anyone want to shoot a .303. A friend of my last year or the year before got, many thousand .303 rounds from Ex India military surplus or whatever, 1947 was on the cases. In ever 100 4 or 5 failed, I will never understand, but to him this was a good deal. As for why reloading for target shooter, the massive cost savings and production 9mm is not loaded in major power factor, so, I load and enjoy the time, like gardening, why would anyone enjoy gardening, or watch cricket. :lol:
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Gregg » 13 Oct 2014, 6:57 pm

Chronos wrote:Cavok it may come as a surprise to you given you repeatedly mention cost but to me and the majority of reloaders the decision to reload has nothing to do with cost (high volume shooters like IPSC being the exception)


It's as much a hobby as a money saver for me.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 13 Oct 2014, 7:22 pm

Gregg wrote:
Chronos wrote:Cavok it may come as a surprise to you given you repeatedly mention cost but to me and the majority of reloaders the decision to reload has nothing to do with cost (high volume shooters like IPSC being the exception)


It's as much a hobby as a money saver for me.


Hobby is a great pastime, nothing beats the satisfaction of a job done well, I agree with you. Shoot well.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 13 Oct 2014, 7:22 pm

Pushed the post now submit button. Silly me. :D
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by VICHunter » 14 Oct 2014, 10:50 am

Chronos wrote:A deer hunter who only shoots 10-20 animals a year would take a long time to recoup the cost if reloading gear.


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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Jack V » 14 Oct 2014, 12:20 pm

If you want to develop dependable precision accuracy for a particular firearm then re-loading is the next logical step.

Some don't like it and others can't do without it. It's a personal choice. However once you produce really accurate ammo for a gun it is harder to go back to factory ammo in many cases . Some factory ammo might be very suitable to your gun but then a few years later something changes and it's not as good .

This can also happen with different batches of component's also but you get better consistency overall loading your own if you develop the skills required.

Some hand loaders make no better ammo than factory and that is fine if it suits their purpose .
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by loopal » 14 Oct 2014, 1:27 pm

cavok wrote:Pushed the post now submit button. Silly me. :D


I always get to the end of my post and hit 'Enter' and just wait... and wait... and wait...

And then realise hitting 'Enter' doesn't post the comment :lol:
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by Hardcast » 14 Oct 2014, 1:44 pm

As for dropping loaded rounds into a rifle, to check to see if they fit,

NOT ME.

I make up a 'dummy round' for every rifle and every different projectile for that rifle.

Empty case, projectile fitted and crimped.

Use it to set your bullet seating die each time you reload.
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Re: Reloading what and how & why

Post by cavok » 14 Oct 2014, 2:17 pm

Hardcast wrote:As for dropping loaded rounds into a rifle, to check to see if they fit,

NOT ME.

I make up a 'dummy round' for every rifle and every different projectile for that rifle.

Empty case, projectile fitted and crimped.

Use it to set your bullet seating die each time you reload.


Sorry, but if there is no bolt, otherwise you could not drop the round into the barrel, what the heck could possibly go wrong, the rounds aren't magic. All you would want to see if you made the first round, is if the rounds fits, (not to long) as then it will stick up high. If not crimped correctly it won't drop in it sticks, simple to just pull it out and figure what you have done wrong with your loading press.
“When all about you have lost their heads and you remain calm, perhaps you do not understand the problem”.
Per ardua ad astra.
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