Half speed 30-06

[Noisydad]

Some time ago I was given 1500 cast lead, gas checked, 150gn bullets and wondered what to do with them (I don't have a .30 cal. BP rifle in the fleet) till my faithful old FN Mauser 30-06 came to mind.

Now the 40 odd gns of AR2208 that I've used for years with Winchester Silver Tips is a bit hot for cast bullets even with gas checks and lead will strip off in the barrel and half a charge of 2208 wouldn't provide enough case fill which is dangerous to. However, ADI Trail Boss is a low density, high volume powder (often used by Single Action comp shooters) 18gns of which fills a 30-06 case nicely and produces about 1400 fps with the cast bullets according the ADI manual.

These rounds are very low in recoil and the noise is less than Sons and Lady's .45 BP rifles. No leading occurred even with 30 rounds rapid fire. Didn't get a chance to bench test this load as Lady Noisy's new kitchen's plumbing had to be dealt with but I think there's potential for reasonable accuracy as Son of Noisy and I were shooting our plough disc gong at 175 yards off hand though the sights had to be raised to 600 yards to compensate for the very low velocity.

At 12 cents a shot (still using bulk bought primers from years ago) it's pretty cheap plinking fun!

Stripper clips DO NOT help you conserve ammo!

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150gn cast bullets and 150 gn Winchester Silver Tips.

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[RDobber]

At 12 cents a shot

12 cents for centrefire

I'm shooting the wrong gun.

[wayward]

Now the 40 odd gns of AR2208 that I've used for years with Winchester Silver Tips is a bit hot for cast bullets even with gas checks and lead will strip off in the barrel and half a charge of 2208 wouldn't provide enough case fill which is dangerous to.

About the lead stripping off, how's that different to regular fouling?

Does the bullet come apart or something or is it so much it's a safety issue?

[Noisydad]

If the cast lead bullets were shoved up the barrel by a so called "full strength" load of 2208, the bullet would be bulldozed along faster than it could begin rotating (to match the rifling twist) and little bits of lead will shear off the side of the bullet and stick in the barrel. Also, the heat of the burning gases may very well melt and erode the bullet base further exacerbating lead deposition. This will happen because the lead isn't as hard as the copper jacket on the Silver Tips (for example). The copper on a jacketed bullet is hard enough to resist the shearing forces (and the heat) and in turn, force the bullet to rotate. Generally, (and depending on the lead alloy, rate of rifling twist, barrel temp. and other witch craft), a cast bullet can travel at about 1800 fps as maximum speed for this reason. Given that these rounds are being used for fun plinking and teaching young'uns to handle a bigger centre fire rifle, the half speed bullets suit me just fine. In fact I'll probably buy a suitable bullet mould and cast my own when my freebie supply starts drying up.

[Westy]

Trailboss is a great powder to use in heavier recoiling rifles like the 30-06 and 308 and in the 300aac it's perfect 6 grains at 1070 fps and virtually no noise without a can with a 110 grn hollow point serria On a par with a 22lr !!! Might have to start calling you Quieter Dad??? I've found the down side is the build up of burnt powder you get in the bore after using it.

[agentzero]

If the cast lead bullets were shoved up the barrel by a so called "full strength" load of 2208, the bullet would be bulldozed along faster than it could begin rotating (to match the rifling twist) and little bits of lead will shear off the side of the bullet and stick in the barrel. Also, the heat of the burning gases may very well melt and erode the bullet base further exacerbating lead deposition. This will happen because the lead isn't as hard as the copper jacket on the Silver Tips (for example). The copper on a jacketed bullet is hard enough to resist the shearing forces (and the heat) and in turn, force the bullet to rotate.

Best description I've heard of cast bullets and velocity limits, thanks Noisy.

[sha]

If the cast lead bullets were shoved up the barrel by a so called "full strength" load of 2208, the bullet would be bulldozed along faster than it could begin rotating (to match the rifling twist) and little bits of lead will shear off the side of the bullet and stick in the barrel.

Can you cast a harder mix of alloy to shoot higher velocity loads, Noisy?

Like mixed copper in to make it harder? Make a semi-solid round if that makes sense?

Copper might not be right, just and example.

[Tiiger]

I can tell you before anything else that the cost of copper is going to be a sticking point right there.

[Noisydad]

You can make lead harder (to a degree) by alloying with other metals but it is still in essence Lead and susceptible to melting from the burning gases heat. Barrel leading can also be caused by alloys being to hard. There's a "Goldilocks" hardness for pretty much every bullet weight/design/calibre/barrel length/lube combination. Messing around with this stuff is nearly a hobby in itself!

[North East]

I'd rather have my full speed .30-06 but good luck in your endeavours.

[Hardcast]

I like to use T/B or 4759 in just about every rifle I own, just for the fun of shooting it, cheaply.

I just fireformed some 7mm R/M with T/B and cheap Sierra Pistol bullets. Lever action shoots are made cheap when you let 100 odd go in an afternoon.
Reduced loads can be very accurate, my .204 will shoot clover leaves at 75 yds with T/B and sounds like a .22, it's a great little bunny load with the
32 g Sierras.

You can get your cast speed up to around 2,000 fps with the right alloy and lube, plus the gas check of course, but I don't see the point.
A mate does, he loves it, it is a hobby, he has rifles that haven't had a jacketed projectile through them ever and I don't mean Cowboy rifles, 7mm.08, 8mm Mauser, 45/70. He just enjoys the challenge to get accuracy. They hit hard too on Fallow deer and Goat sized game.

Hey Sha, Yes pure lead is mainly used in Black Powder Muzzle loads, most other loads are an Alloy, usually Lead / Tin, or Lead / Tin / Antimony.
There are countless mixes, some prefering to use 'wheel weights' from the local Tyre shop, or a Solder / Lead mix.

It's all good fun casting you own, but can be time consuming, but then there are plenty of options straight off the shelf of your LGS at around $65.00 per 500.

If you can't afford half a dozen rifles, then 'reduced loads' and light projectiles is one way to get double the shooting out of the rifles you've got.

[Gregg]

I'd rather have my full speed .30-06 but good luck in your endeavours.

Noisy is a bit of a casting fanatic

[North East]

Noisy is a bit of a casting fanatic

It's a noble cause…slowing down the old warhorse that wants to keep on going.

[greyghost]

I like to use T/B or 4759 in just about every rifle I own, just for the fun of shooting it, cheaply.

It does take the shine off shooting when somewhere in the back of your mind your keeping track of the cost of each trigger pull.

[Oldbloke]

I also used AS50N 15 gn with a 180 cast. I used it with success yrs ago. My old records indicate I achieve 2" groups @ 100 yrs

[artimu]

I don't know much about casting.

What's considered "good" accuracy with cast bullets?

2 MOA is good huh?

(really asking, not knocking it)

[Oldbloke]

Slow reply. Lol. I think the keen casters do better. Noisy would be the one to ask.

[Noisydad]

Still haven't killed paper with it. Bit time poor the last month or so. Not expecting anything spectacular with the iron sights on my old FN Mauser. So far I'm happy I can use it for plinking fun.

[Oldbloke]

Noisy, what would be a reasonable expectation in regards to accuracy for a 180gr cast in a good 3006?

[North East]

.30-06 with a cast bullet...that sounds like fun.

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, good fun, would be ok for goats and medium sized pigs out to about 100 meters I guess. After abour 100 mtrs the tragectory gets a bit raibow like.

[Korkt]

After abour 100 mtrs the tragectory gets a bit raibow like.

All part of the challenge