Prepping new brass to load

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Prepping new brass to load

Post by tucked » 28 Oct 2014, 7:57 pm

Hi guys,

Wondering what peoples processes are for prepping new brass to load before it's "ready".

Load and shoot?

Fireform once first with some junk loads then it's ready for "proper" loads for use?

What else?

I know a few go the whole 9 yards and square the base and neck turn, not looking to go that far myself.

Interested what people feel is enough though.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Chronos » 28 Oct 2014, 8:06 pm

ready for what? shooting pigs at 50m? long range varminting? 1000y benchrest?

for hunting just full length size, check length and load, for more consistency you could uniform primer pockets, deburr flash holes, weight sort etc but it's horses for courses

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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Bennybigbores » 28 Oct 2014, 8:12 pm

I keep it very simple but I'm not a target shooter, buy factory ammo fire off, deprime, wash brass, clean pockets and flash holes, lube, measure brass cut to length,lee collet neck size, prime, powder, seat the hurty bit as close to lans as magazine allows, done. No sorting weighing brass etc, just inspect brass for hotspots cracks etc
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Oct 2014, 8:24 pm

Bennybigbores wrote:I keep it very simple but I'm not a target shooter, buy factory ammo fire off, deprime, wash brass, clean pockets and flash holes, lube, measure brass cut to length,lee collet neck size, prime, powder, seat the hurty bit as close to lans as magazine allows, done. No sorting weighing brass etc, just inspect brass for hotspots cracks etc


Same here for hunting loads. Except I seat the bullet about .025 " from the lands.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Oct 2014, 8:24 pm

Bennybigbores wrote:I keep it very simple but I'm not a target shooter, buy factory ammo fire off, deprime, wash brass, clean pockets and flash holes, lube, measure brass cut to length,lee collet neck size, prime, powder, seat the hurty bit as close to lans as magazine allows, done. No sorting weighing brass etc, just inspect brass for hotspots cracks etc


Same here for hunting loads. Except I seat the bullet about .025 " from the lands.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by headspace » 28 Oct 2014, 8:36 pm

Personally, I've never full length sized new brass, I just give the primer home a quick ream with an appropriate size drill bit, and run my Lee Collet die down the neck, then load 'em up. You don't need to run squib loads to fire form either. The factory ammo is neither full length sized nor fire formed, so why would we bother? I've shot some really nice groups with unformed brass. Obviously you don't go straight to top load in the book but if you're doing it right you should be able to zero the rifle and hunt with loads made on unfired brass. I'm in the process of fire forming some 270 brass and already getting groups well under MOA, so apart from the normal load work up, don't fiddle around with crap loads.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by cruze82 » 28 Oct 2014, 9:27 pm

for hunting stuff not a lot full length size primer pocket uniform and flash hole debur, fill, seat and shoot

but for target or long range plinking stuff I try to go as far as I can but I must admit Iv tried to neck turn but im afraid I still need some guidance for that, still have so many questions about neck tensions and thickness and neck tension dies with collet inserts its all abit confusing
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Baldrick314 » 28 Oct 2014, 9:39 pm

I buy factory rounds, shoot, tumble, neck size, trim, debur, uniform flash hole, uniform primer pocket, neck turn, prime, charge, seat projectile then check runout on a concentricity gauge. For next round of reloading just tumble, size, trim as necessary, clean primer pocket and then load.

I've been thinking for a while of batching my cases by weight but I'll have to wait till I've shot off the loads I have on hand so I have a large enough pool to go through.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by brett1868 » 28 Oct 2014, 10:47 pm

I probably over prep my brass but I enjoy the process so I don't care. Tumbled till no carbon seen, FLRS, 20 min ultrasonic, dried, primer pockets cleaned, trimmed, tumbled again, annealed, weighed, measured & batched prior to loading. Projectiles are measured, trimmed, weight matched ,seated, COAL measured again and concentricity set to <0.001 run out. I load 120-220 rounds per batch and put 20 over the chronograph in 4 sets of 5 groups which I then measure and record along with avg velocity, SD & ES. If I'm not going to shoot them in the immediate future I vacuum bag them and store in a locked airtight ammo container in the safe. The process doesn't take that long if spread out over a few nights doing a bit here and there. I use a few timers to turn the tumblers on / off while I'm at work so the brass is ready for the next step when I get home. Priming & concentricity is done while watching TV though all loading is done in the garage due to the inherent risks of handling powder.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Jack V » 29 Oct 2014, 6:19 am

I never size new brass unless I know it will not fit easy ie. a tight chamber .
External and Internal inspect for major faults .
Square case mouth and bring all to the same length
Skim neck turn. ( with partial neck sizing in a factory chamber )
Internal and external mouth chamfer .
Uniform primer pocket.
Uniform flash hole .
Wash in warm water and CLR to get any grime off as new cases rarely need tumbling .
I do this for all shooting but I don't bother to weigh cases if I know the brand .
Try to keep brands separate and or batch's with same case capacity .
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by bigfellascott » 29 Oct 2014, 6:52 am

Mine's shove a primer in, stuff some powder in and jam a projie in then shoot fur with it, a system I've used to good affect over 40yrs. :D
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by mausermate » 29 Oct 2014, 7:24 am

bigfellascott wrote:Mine's shove a primer in, stuff some powder in and jam a projie in then shoot fur with it, a system I've used to good affect over 40yrs. :D

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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Chronos » 29 Oct 2014, 8:16 am

Jack V wrote:I never size new brass unless I know it will not fit easy ie. a tight chamber .
External and Internal inspect for major faults .
Square case mouth and bring all to the same length
Skim neck turn. ( with partial neck sizing in a factory chamber )
Internal and external mouth chamfer .
Uniform primer pocket.
Uniform flash hole .
Wash in warm water and CLR to get any grime off as new cases rarely need tumbling .
I do this for all shooting but I don't bother to weigh cases if I know the brand .
Try to keep brands separate and or batch's with same case capacity .


Out of curiosity if you don't size new cases but you do trim to length

a) how do you find case length after firing? I've found even Lapua brass varies in base to shoulder length by a couple of thou, hence why I full length size before doing anything else with new brass.

and

b) how can you neck turn and trim with partial neck sizing? How is the consistence of fit for the pilot on your neck turner and case trimmer? Guess it depends in what gear you use but for my K&M neck turner I need to run a expander tool in the neck before I can turn.

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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by tucked » 29 Oct 2014, 12:14 pm

Chronos wrote:ready for what? shooting pigs at 50m? long range varminting? 1000y benchrest?


I'm doing casual target shooting and hunting but I'm interested in all, interested in learning more about things in general.

Never hurts to know, right?
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Vati » 29 Oct 2014, 12:15 pm

brett1868 wrote:I probably over prep my brass but I enjoy the process so I don't care.


Keeping yourself busy with it is half the fun :mrgreen:
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Lorgar » 29 Oct 2014, 12:31 pm

IMO... Unless you're very serious about accuracy - shooting competitively etc. - there is really no need to do anything to your brass before using it. Especially for hunting.

There is some merit to the idea of full length sizing the first time just so everything chambers smoothly, I wouldn't say it's essential though.

For my .243 and .308 Rugers I loaded factory brass out of the packet and with the right load they both shot about about 0.8 MOA.

When I got my Tikka I necked down the same .308 brass. The necks were shorter than they were supposed to be, I didn't turn them, they were fire-formed in a different rifle... It still shot under 0.4 MOA on the first go.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by headspace » 29 Oct 2014, 8:21 pm

cruze82 wrote:for hunting stuff not a lot full length size primer pocket uniform and flash hole debur, fill, seat and shoot

but for target or long range plinking stuff I try to go as far as I can but I must admit Iv tried to neck turn but im afraid I still need some guidance for that, still have so many questions about neck tensions and thickness and neck tension dies with collet inserts its all abit confusing

Mate the best way to fix this is to get yourself a Lee collet die. I won't operate without them now. They set the neck size and tension all in one up and down movement of the press. Unless you're trying to wring every last millimetre out of you ammo for target shooting, most of that other stuff is unnecessary. My rifles all 4 of 'em shoot under MOA and that's all I do. I'll full length size once a case is getting hard to chamber, then after that I'll check it for OAL and trim if I have to. Apart from that my case prep goes like this; with the Lee Collet die punch out the old primer and neck size. Clean out the primer pocket, chamfer the case neck then I run a bit of steel wool around the neck to get rid of any crud from firing. Then it's reprime, weigh out the powder and seat a bullet. I always check seating depth and over all length.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Chronos » 29 Oct 2014, 8:56 pm

tucked wrote:Never hurts to know, right?


Absolutely, only when you know what's involved and the potential benefits can you choose what's best for your situation.

Some hunters do lots of case prep, also i know of a highly competitive target shooter who simply sizes and loads, he never even tumbles it. he shoots his cases a couple of times and just sells them off

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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Jack V » 30 Oct 2014, 7:13 am

Chronos wrote:Out of curiosity if you don't size new cases but you do trim to length

a) how do you find case length after firing? I've found even Lapua brass varies in base to shoulder length by a couple of thou, hence why I full length size before doing anything else with new brass.

and

b) how can you neck turn and trim with partial neck sizing? How is the consistence of fit for the pilot on your neck turner and case trimmer? Guess it depends in what gear you use but for my K&M neck turner I need to run a expander tool in the neck before I can turn.


No need to find case length after firing . I just trim all new cases to the shortest one in the batch . Then after a few firings , trim again at the same length setting to keep the case mouth square and neat , some trim extra some don't . A slight difference in case neck length between batch's is of no consequence to accuracy . What is more important is squareness and neat even undamaged edges / chamfers .

Neck sizing and neck expanding is part of neck turning but it is not full length sizing . Full length sizing a new case that already fits the chamber is just over working the brass. I never full length size . I do separate body and neck sizing as required. You are correct generally to get the correct fit of the turner mandrel an expander mandrel of the right size is required and sizing the neck down first may also be required to then expand up to best fit .

Once the case is fired the first time it is best to try an preserve the fire formed fit with minimal sizing techniques . A traditional full length sizing die tends to oversize and loose best fit . Fine for autos and pumps etc. but not the best for bolt actions trying for top accuracy .

Partial neck sizing is a technique used after the first firing . You size the full neck for turning a case neck but after the first shot is fired from then on you only size part of the neck length usually about 2/3 depending on chambering ease and bullet grip etc. This system is achieved by using separate body and neck sizing dies . A traditional full length die is not very good at partial sizing the neck . Some people get away with it but it lacks precision and there is no guarantee that the base of the case will be sized enough for easy fit requiring the die to be adjusted down more and more until the partial neck size changes , possibly changing tension and chamber fit . The body die never sizes any of the neck ever so it can be used to get good base to shoulder fit without ever changing anything at the neck and because no neck friction is involved like old expander ball dies have , very small sizing amounts can be achieved easily .

Partial neck sizing is a way of using skim neck turning in a factory chamber . The partial size regains the lost neck wall thickness by supporting the case neck better with the slight second shoulder that is formed after the first partial neck length size is applied. Then if you use the right dies the slight second shoulder stays there for the life of the case . BR shooters with tight neck chambers can also use short neck sizing but you can't see any second shoulder on the case neck because there is only a very small diameter difference so it's not obvious to the casual observer .

If you hold your base to main shoulder fit to a close chamber fit then the base to where the bullet ogive sits in the chamber as set by the seater die will stay consistent also . Keep the second shoulder short as it can sometimes give chambering resistance if it's too long and then bullet grip also suffers .
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Tiiger » 30 Oct 2014, 8:56 am

Chronos wrote:Some hunters do lots of case prep, also i know of a highly competitive target shooter who simply sizes and loads, he never even tumbles it. he shoots his cases a couple of times and just sells them off


So many theories of what's best ranging from huge amounts of work to virtually nothing, and all get results.

This will be argued of course but it lends a little weight to the theory that any/all of the processes are a waste of time :lol:

Just thinking out loud.
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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by Jack V » 30 Oct 2014, 3:26 pm

Beware of what competitive shooters tell you. A lot of the time they don't tell you what they really do because they don't want more competitors.

You would not need to tumble if only firing them twice. However new cases can have a bit of grit and garbage on them from manufacture that can scratch your dies or chamber. They should be at least wiped well before and after prep.

I have seen lot's of re-loaders in my time that get good results from basic techniques but over time the loads will lack consistency. Case prep helps to reduce variables. One of the main problems is that the rifle and shooter must be able to see slight accuracy improvements along the way. If the gun and shooter are only capable of 2 inch accuracy then a.25 improvement may go un-noticed so they declare the technique as useless.

BR shooters can see minute accuracy changes so they tend to use more complicated techniques that they can see working. Full bore shooters tend to use more basic loading techniques but I know for a fact that USA Champion David Tubb used a similar system to me as does German Salazar and a few others.

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Re: Prepping new brass to load

Post by chacka » 31 Oct 2014, 1:10 pm

And far more of the latter it seems :lol:
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