My first Trail Boss Loads for 223rem

[Gwion]

Gwion, "Just my data for 55gn at full load was estimating 3300+... " There are a few loads close to that speed in the ADI Manual.
My estimate is about 3000fps less 50 for 24" barrel. Yes it is a mild load & my other Marlin BA rifle seems to like a mild load too. But I don't think many foxes carry chronograph.

Don't mind a mild load myself, OB; was just commenting that i was expecting over 3000fps from most factory offerings for 223rem.

Never seen a chrony set up in the paddock of an evening, either!

[Gwion]

Well, good news and bad news.

Good news is that Brett's very generous loan of his chronograph has come in handy so far. I'll post some data when I have more time.

The bad news is, consistent is not a word I would use for the velocity of the trail boss loads I have tested. I think it has to do with the bullets I am using and seating depth as well. The load i previously tested as being pretty accurate has gone to poo since I had to seat the bullets in deeper due to poor feeding from the mag. I may have to ditch the bullets all together and try a load with 50gn bullets instead of 40gn. Even in the full charge load they aren't performing well and a few are keyholing at 100m.

Back to the drawing board. Frustrating, as these bullets were working fine in the same barrel when it was on the other action.

[Gwion]

Series 1 Shots: 5
Min 1947 Max 2205
Avg 2075 S-D 114
ES 258 TrailBoss 8.9gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 2 Shots: 5
Min 1986 Max 2196
Avg 2076 S-D 100
ES 210 TrailBoss 9gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 3 Shots: 5
Min 1996 Max 2192
Avg 2063 S-D 77.7
ES 196 TrailBoss 9.1gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 4 Shots: 5
Min 1955 Max 2195
Avg 2106 S-D 90.1
ES 240 TrailBoss 9.2gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 5 Shots: 5
Min 1934 Max 2047
Avg 1991 S-D 51.9
ES 113 TrailBoss 9.3gn
---- ---- ---- ----

[Gwion]

So, the above table shows the data overview. The massive extreme spread and standard deviation shows why the accuracy is way off. Also, the increments of 0.1gn seems insignificant, but the change in such a small charge, coupled with the relatively large difference in volume with the TrailBoss actually makes a difference in visible accuracy, even if the data doesn't look remarkably different from series to series.

The last load was notably more consistent with accuracy and ES/SD data. This is consistent with information about TrailBoss performing best at max capacity for any given case. From my reading else where, consistency is best with a full but uncompressed load. I will try a few more loads creeping up but i think 9.5gn will be compressed and 9.4 will be max uncompressed.

Another issue i found was that my jump was miscalculated and was a massive 60thou! I have just spent some time re-evaluating my distance to lands on that rifle and am aiming for a 20thou jump.

I also spent some time evaluating the bullets i am using. They are less than consistent. Stupidly, i ordered them as a special order from a custom bullet maker and i am under the impression that the 40gn weight is too small to get the consistency he achieves with his 55gn bullets. The OAL of my loads varies 7thou (cart base to OG). This has also got to be having an impact, so i'll spend a bit of time sorting bullets and see how that goes.

This is all far more work than i intended for this project but now that i'm into it i'll keep going and see if i can get something consistent happening. I'll also try some loads with 50gn Zmax and see if they are more consistent but that will probably drop the velocity down to around 1800fps and reduce the MPBR. Might also buy some factory 40gn varmint bullets and see how they go by comparison.

[Oldbloke]

Thanks for taking the trouble to list the data. I have filed it away for possible use later

[Baronvonrort]

Good work Gwion it's something i'm sure many have considered trying, we are curious so keep informing us of your progress

[Oldbloke]

Any signs of pressure?

[brett1868]

What primers you running? Maybe a switch to small rifle magnum if not already being used may deliver a more consistent burn. Group 5 is heading in he right direction, 5 steps forward, 4 steps back. Good to hear the chronograph is helping, keep in mind that having the bayonet fitted can interfere with barrel harmonics and cause a small impact to accuracy. On the lighter barreled rifles I'll do a 5 shot group with the Chronograph and another 5 shot without just to compare the group size.
When I'm being very serious about achieving the best possible group I use a Caldwell Leadsled DFT with 20kg of lead on it. I then strap the rifle to it using the sling mounts which eliminates me as a variable. It's all about removing the variables and I can be a big one so I'm best taken out of the game when precision counts.

[Gwion]

Any signs of pressure?

None whatsoever, mate.

[Gwion]

Not a bad idea with the SRM primers. Might give it a go. I don't have a lead sled, so I just have to do my best. I can usually call a flyer if I've pulled it or done something horribly wrong. Good point with the bayo affecting groups, I'm sure it was a factor with other loads and the 7-08 but these groups (shooting at 100m) are well over 2 inches and some of them 3 inches. The biggest issue is vertical dispersion, which obviously is coming from the, upto, 250fps ES. Previously I have had a TrailBoss load shooting around the inch at 100m, which I would be happy with for this purpose. The kill zone on my target species is quite small, so an inch is kind of max group size for clean killing at max point blank.

[Oldbloke]

Any signs of pressure?

None whatsoever, mate.

As I expected
Thnx

[sandgroperbill]

I would be curious to see the results after the jump has been reduced.

Good work, though, keep us up to date with things as you go, this could be quite valuable to a few people...

[Gwion]

Got a better group from the 50gn Vmax with 9.1gn yesterday but will test some more before commenting further or posting data.

[Redwood]

When I'm being very serious about achieving the best possible group I use a Caldwell Leadsled DFT with 20kg of lead on it.

With your big bangers as well or just smaller calibre stuff?

I ask as I wonder about how big recoil stuff goes locked into one of these.

[Gwion]

After reading through this thread a couple of times I've started testing with TB for my .222.
So far 7.5 gn under a 55 gn pill is grouping well at 50m, I'll load up some more tomorrow and see how they go at 100.

Great...i'd be very keen to know how you fair, Bentaz.

[Bourt]

With your big bangers as well or just smaller calibre stuff?

Double the lead for those

[Gwion]

Looking good, Bentaz.

I'd be picking what you think is the best and loading a bunch for more testing. Just to see how it is for consistency.

I got some SRmag Primers on friday, planing on doing some more testing with those and 9.2gn behind 50gn Zmax. See if the mag primer make for more consistent burn. That's the plan for tomorrow arvo after a bit of real work is done.

Are you talking about those square looking rests? Never used one, myself.

[Seik]

That's the first time I've heard Z-Max in a while. I thought the zombie phase might have finally passed.

[sandgroperbill]

Just won't die. You think it's dead but it keeps coming back

[Gwion]

Yeah, Baby!

Nolser 55gn Ballistic Tip Varmint with CCI 400 primer & 8.3gn Trailboss out of a friends Tikka = roughly MOA or maybe a bit tighter 100m (approx).

Zmax 50gn with CCI 450 (small rifle magnum) primer and 8.1gn of Trailboss out of my FrankenZastava = well inside MOA @ 100m.

B&T VarmintR 40n with CCI450 & 8.3gn Trailboss = roughly MOA. To get the VarmintR shooting ok in my rifle, i had to do some batch sorting and they still arent the greatest in my rifle, so i'll keep them for when i (eventually) finish this WildCat build. Thinking i need a 1:14twist barrel for that project.

So, i'm going to load up a heap of Zmax 50gn with SRM primers and 8.1gn of Trailboss. SIghted dead on at my (approximate) 100m gives me 1" high @50m (approx).

The Small Rifle Magnum primers certainly seemed to help with a consistent burn. Accuracy was all round more consistent and the ES & SD on Brett's Chrony where all well down. I'll collate my data and post a bit later.

Thanks Brett. Your chrony will be in the post sometime this week. It has been very handy and i owe you a beer or ten.

Happy that things are finally working well.

edit: corrected load data; see screw up below

[Gwion]

And here is today's load and Chrony Data:

Series 26 Shots: 5
Min 1813 Max 1871
Avg 1850 S-D 25
ES 58
Trailboss 7.9gn Primer CCI450
Bullet Hornady Zmax 50gn

26 1 1866 ft/s
26 2 1871 ft/s
26 3 1813 ft/s
26 4 1865 ft/s
26 5 1835 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 27 Shots: 6
Min 1850 Max 1877
Avg 1862 S-D 12.3
ES 27
Trailboss 8.1gn Primer CCI450
Bullet Hornady Zmax 50gn

27 1 1855 ft/s
27 2 1877 ft/s
27 3 1862 ft/s
27 4 1851 ft/s
27 5 1850 ft/s
27 6 1877 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 28 Shots: 5
Min 2066 Max 2129
Avg 2098 S-D 23.6
ES 63
Trailboss 8.1gn Primer CCI450
Bullet B&T Energetics VarmintR 40gn

28 2 2102 ft/s
28 3 2129 ft/s
28 4 2066 ft/s
28 5 2108 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 29 Shots: 4
Min 2113 Max 2143
Avg 2127 S-D 13.7
ES 30
Trailboss 8.3gn Primer CCI400
Bullet B&T Energetics VarmintR 40gn

29 1 2143 ft/s
29 2 2134 ft/s
29 3 2119 ft/s
29 4 2113 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 30 Shots: 5
Min 3027 Max 3104
Avg 3064 S-D 29.1
ES 77
BM8208 26.2gn Primer CCI400
Bullet B&T Energetics VarmintR 40gn

30 1 3047 ft/s
30 2 3104 ft/s
30 3 3070 ft/s
30 4 3074 ft/s
30 5 3027 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----

edit: corrected load data; see screw up below

[Gwion]

BTW: I also managed to squeeze a little more space out of my magazine, so i can load to about 20thou off the lands and the feed issue seems to be sorted. Took most of yesterday arvo screwing around with the rifle to make sure everything was kosher: scope,check, bedding, check... etc, etc.

Touch wood; it will now keep plugging them where i want them. I have 12 full loads left at about 3100fps, but they are shooting between 1.5 & 1MOA, so i don't think i'll load any more of them and will focus on the Zmax 50gn Trailboss load for pest control.

[Gwion]

CHeers mate. There's even some rain falling now, so all is good.

[Gwion]

Dammit!
I had moved my scales before the last loading session and had not recalibrated them.

They were 1.1gn over. Just loaded 5 rounds and tested them at 50m. With the 'low flier' the group was 0.508". with out the flier, the other 4 bullets made two holes about 3mm apart. I will go back and edit the data to show the true load value. This was actually 8.1gn of Trailboss with CCI#450 primer.

Note to self: DON'T FORGET TO CALIBRATE SCALES BEFORE EACH SESSION!!!
Lucky i wasn't loading full charge loads and that they weren't reading under!!!

[Gwion]

Below is a drop chart based on a 50gn Zmax leaving the barrel at 1862fps with the atmospheric conditions of the day i tested this load: 8.1gn TrailBoss, 18" barrel, 223rem, with a 100yd zero.

This gives me 120m point & shoot range on my particular pest species (allowing 1.5" high/low). You can see that at this point it starts dropping very quickly indeed. My paddocks are pretty familiar, so i have an idea of range from certain vantage points. 160m will be absolute outside and require using the 2nd stadia on my BDC reticle, around 140m will be 1st stadia. I have sighted dead on at 100yd and it's shooting just on 1MOA. I'll be doing a bit of a run tonight.

By the way, hope some of you find this useful in someway but i'm really using it as a reminder/record for myself as much as anything.

Another note: for some reason, shooting with my scope mounted torch dropped POI about 1/2" compared to POA zeroed with no torch mounted. I have re-zeroed with torch mounted.


R Drop 0° Wind Velocity TioF Energy
M Inches MOA FPS Sec Foot lbs
10 1.03 2.140 1833 0.016 373
20 0.43 0.660 1801 0.034 360
30 0.05 0.010 1769 0.053 347
40 0.40 0.450 1738 0.072 335
50 0.62 0.830 1708 0.091 323
60 0.70 1.170 1677 0.110 312
70 0.63 1.490 1648 0.130 301
80 0.41 1.790 1618 0.150 290
90 0.04 2.100 1589 0.171 280
100 0.51 2.400 1561 0.192 270
110 1.23 2.700 1533 0.213 261
120 2.13 3.000 1505 0.235 251
130 3.23 3.300 1478 0.257 242
140 4.52 3.600 1451 0.279 234
150 6.02 3.900 1425 0.302 225
160 7.49 4.000 1402 0.324 218

EDIT, PS: i can't seem to paste a table or make the chart more legible.

[VICHunter]

That's the first time I've heard Z-Max in a while. I thought the zombie phase might have finally passed.

They've been doing zombie movies for 80 years, it's not going anywhere

[Baronvonrort]

EDIT, PS: i can't seem to paste a table or make the chart more legible.

It's all good we can figure it out.

Brass life should be pretty good with lower pressures from Trail Boss

[Supporter]

Yeah you could expect a few dozen reloads with it.

[Gwion]

Yep. It will still need occasional annealing because the work of the sizing die embrittles the brass. It's this and not just high pressures that cause neck splits. Cases should last ages if annealed periodically.

[Gwion]

Also developed a load for a mate's Tikka with 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmints (orange tip). CCI 400 primer, 8.4gn Trailboss. He's happy with it shooting around the inch at 110m.