Full length sized brass hard to chamber

[schink]

Hi guys,

A mate's started loading for his .243 and run into a snag... He's full length sized his brass but the cartridges but closing the bolt is very stiff.

The rifle is fine, chambers factor ammo smooth as.

Suggestions?

Thanks.

[schink]

BTW, double checked coal and compared to factory ammo and all looks good.

The rifling isn't pushing into the bullet when chambered and removed.

[Jack V]

You have to work out what is happening. Pull a projectile on one of the loads that sticks and remove the powder . Then polish up the case with steel wool so it has no marks. then chamber and extract it . Look at the marks and see where it is binding . If it chambers easy then the projectile might be hitting the lands . Seat the bullet back in with the same seater die setting , no powder . Polish up the projectile and chamber that looking for lands marks . You should always test empty cases for fit before loading them .

[1290]

Do you mean Cartridge-over-all-length or case length? You may need to screw the FLS dont a smidge more....

[Chronos]

As jack said above, chances are the full length die isn't being run deep enough over the case. Why? Could be the decapping pin is screwed down too far and is bottoming out inside the case or the press is set up incorrectly and is pushing the shoulder in but not back actually making the case longer, not shorter.

If you can borrow something like a hornady headspace guage or improvise something with an appropriate sized socket for example.

What you're looking for is a reference measurement of the case length at the datum point. Then adjust your f/ l die down a bit at a time. You'll notice at the point where is starts sizing the case the measurement gets longer then if you go a bit more it will get shorter, you're looking to " bump " the shoulder just .002"

Now chamber the case to make sure it chambers.

Just thought of something else.

I've seen cases change shape when seating flat base bullets. Sometimes the base catches in the neck opening and either kicks out sideways, bending the neck or the force required pushes the shoulder out. Jacks technique will show this with scuffing of the shoulder junction

Chronos

[Jack V]

Another thing that can happen with full length sizing dies that use expander balls is when inside case neck friction is high the case shoulder can be pulled out just a few thou on exit as it pulls through the case neck . This leaves the shoulder to base length longer than it was when the case was fully inside the die .

This usually means the die has to be set further down to over size a bit to compensate for this issue.

If cases are tested in the action as the die is being screwed down the right spot will be found. However only move the die 1/8 of a turn at a time until you get close to closing the bolt then 1/16 till the bolt closes nicely. If the bolt is already close to closing then only move 1/16 at a time , it may only take one move .

This problem can be reduced by inside neck polishing using an old bore brush wrapped in a thin wisp of steel wool and chucked in an electric screw driver .

Then also polish up the outside and dip the case neck in 50% moly / graphite mix and tap it to remove excess . After a while the inside of the die at the case neck and the expander ball gets coated up and reduces friction dramatically. On the body of the case lightly roll on some liquid case lube like RCBS . The shoulder area does not need any lube for just a slight bump . I gave up on this kind of die many years ago . There is a better way to do it for a bolt action .

[bigfellascott]

There's a lesson for young players - always do a test with an empty round, make sure it fits and cycles as it should, then do the same with a projectile seated in it (again no powder/primer, just the empty FLS case and projectile seated, if it all works great go ahead and reload some up, if not you need to wind the seating die down a 1/4 or so and reseat the projectile slightly deeper, test again and just keep adjusting until it chambers as it should - if it all works as it should keep that one as a dummy for future use if you ever have the need to set the dies up again (saves time and mucking around (just write Dummy on it and store it away somewhere.

To the OP, you'll more than likely need to wind the die in slightly then resize the case again, chamber it and see if it fits, if not wind it down again and just keep repeating until it does chamber as it should then lock the lock ring if it has one, jobs done.

P.S. just read the instructions that came with the dies they will tell you how to go about it correctly (easier than me trying to explain it anyway)

[brett1868]

Here's another possibility but related to the seating die. If your using a die that has the ability to crimp the projectile it's possible that your engaging the crimp before the projectile is fully seated. This can push the neck down slightly and flare the shoulder making it hard / impossible to chamber. Saw a guy out the range a few months back that did this to a heap of .308 reloads. It was obvious what he'd done but spent a good 20 min telling me what an "experienced" reloader he was yet couldn't answer simple questions. If you have a crimp ability in the seating die then best way (for me) is to put an empty case on the ram and raise it to the full up position, slacken the lock ring on the die and screw it down onto the case till you can "feel" the crimp engage. Then back it off 1/2 turn and set the locking ring and from there it's just a matter of setting up your seating depth. Some pictures of a round that won't chamber would help, especially close up around the shoulder & neck. Good luck and be sure to let us know how it goes.

[Warrigul]

Here's another possibility but related to the seating die. If your using a die that has the ability to crimp the projectile it's possible that your engaging the crimp before the projectile is fully seated. This can push the neck down slightly and flare the shoulder making it hard / impossible to chamber. Saw a guy out the range a few months back that did this to a heap of .308 reloads. It was obvious what he'd done but spent a good 20 min telling me what an "experienced" reloader he was yet couldn't answer simple questions. If you have a crimp ability in the seating die then best way (for me) is to put an empty case on the ram and raise it to the full up position, slacken the lock ring on the die and screw it down onto the case till you can "feel" the crimp engage. Then back it off 1/2 turn and set the locking ring and from there it's just a matter of setting up your seating depth. Some pictures of a round that won't chamber would help, especially close up around the shoulder & neck. Good luck and be sure to let us know how it goes.

I did that in the early days of reloading for the .300 WM, very embarrassing. My next effort with the 300WM was to seat the projectile to be .010" off the lands like my target rifle, only problem was none of the ammo would fit in the magazine, a weekend of single loading followed.............

You live and learn.

[Weepy]

If the brass is several times fired it could be the necks stretching too far forward as well.

They might need a trim.

[schink]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll work my way through them and see what I can find.

[schink]

Do you mean Cartridge-over-all-length or case length? You may need to screw the FLS dont a smidge more....

I meant Cartridge OAL when I said I compared to factory ammo.

[COLLECTOR 1]

Im betting the necks may need a trim, 243's are hot mothers that need tlc..lol

Failing that, check to see if the projectiles are showing any sort of marking from the lands and just turn said seating die back a smigg.....

collector 1

[schink]

I had a look and some necks are definitely higher.

Haven't confirmed that's a problem yet. A trimmer is in the mail and we'll see when it gets here.

[Jack V]

Unless the case neck is so long it's hitting the end of the chamber which I doubt very much it should not cause that problem .

[schink]

I'll learn when it gets here later in the week and I can work through things

[COLLECTOR 1]

Bet its the neck hitting the end of the chamber...how many times the brass been fired off???.....and what sort of case trimmer do you have coming...???

Collector 1

[schink]

Well someone was right... Don't know who but it's fixed now

We hand loaded a batch and did the following.

• Checked sizing die, and made sure it was screw down another 1/4 turn after lifting the ram and setting it.
• Trimmed the necks, the longest ones needed around 2mm off.
• Started again with my cartridge OAL and tripled checked, am 100% sure bullet is not touching the lands.

So somewhere between the 3 he was a little off. Double checking everything though now they load and extract smooth as

[Chronos]

Well someone was right... Don't know who but it's fixed now

We hand loaded a batch and did the following.

• Checked sizing die, and made sure it was screw down another 1/4 turn after lifting the ram and setting it.
• Trimmed the necks, the longest ones needed around 2mm off.
• Started again with my cartridge OAL and tripled checked, am 100% sure bullet is not touching the lands.

So somewhere between the 3 he was a little off. Double checking everything though now they load and extract smooth as

People underestimate the value of measuring the case headspace when setting their sizing die. I check the cases before and after sizing every time i set the sizing die, .005" too high and the casewill grow longer when F/L sized, .005" too low and you're case will be minimum spec, unnecessarily over working the brass.

case length was 2mm off? a major issue there too.

glad you got it sorted mate, no go out and shoot it

Chronos

[schink]

Not on all, but the necks were up to 2mm longer on the worst ones, yep.

[Gregg]

Im betting the necks may need a trim, 243's are hot mothers that need tlc..lol

With heavy pills and loads they do grow fast.

[1290]

Not on all, but the necks were up to 2mm longer on the worst ones, yep.

Longer than what? the others? just being longer doesnt send them out of spec....what did you trim from and too??

Max case is 51.94mm, while minimum chamber is 52.20mm, so even if the cases were at the minimum chamber (over spec length) they would chamber, even a smidge longer they would hit the chamfered/ramped part of the chamber (0.68mm) where it goes from neck straight to leade (243 has zero freebore)

[schink]

I'm using the Lee trimmer with the length gage that you push into the case and it stops the cutter at the right height.

Meant to say when I trimmed them, the worst cases needed about 2mm of neck trimmed off.

I don't have the length handy, but whatever the Lee trimmer does them to.

[COLLECTOR 1]

problem solved,,,,by somebody somehow,,,lol

Collector 1

[Weepy]

I'll just take credit for it so we can wrap this up