Casting your own brass

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Casting your own brass

Post by ailar » 08 Jan 2015, 2:10 pm

Question inspired by the Can You Make 7.62x54r From 30-30 Brass topic...

Is it possible to cast your own brass?

Wouldn't be worth it for the common cartridges I'm sure but if you're shooting something old/rare is such a thing possible? (practical and safe?)

Do some straight neck cases then FL size a shoulder and the right calibre neck into them?
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Chronos » 08 Jan 2015, 2:34 pm

Casting is a poor process for making strong flexible vessels like cases.

Cases are deep drawn from plate or billet. The drawing process gives a grain structure that helps the case expand and spring back through many firings without cracking or splitting. Something that wouldn't be possible with cast cases.

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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by anthillinside » 08 Jan 2015, 6:54 pm

If you've got lots of time and money here's a start.
Copper jackets for projectiles.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... YyMsUcWOqW
I've heard for 1 off's they turn them from solid brass rod, could be BS.
It would be very difficult to turn out the inside taper and get the neck thin enough.
and the deep drawing and anealing does change the structure of brass.
I heard a guy from Bertram talking about it, sounds mre like blackmagic!
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Jan 2015, 9:41 pm

Cast brass will be way too brittle. It needs to be maliable/soft.
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by brett1868 » 09 Jan 2015, 6:27 am

Cases are generally swaged from brass slugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lapLWlw5qk


It is possible to swage .223 projectiles from 22LR brass cases and there's dies available on eBay to do the job.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FULL-SWAGING-SET-OF-FOUR-DIES-TO-MAKE-22lr-cases-boat-tail-in-223-Bullet-MJ-/251388703372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a87ef328c#ht_2925wt_1345

Not sure about brass jacketed projectiles or why you'd bother and if they are any better then copper jackets. The brass VLD's I use are CNC turned from half hard brass bar stock and are solid. Haven't managed to find or shoot VLD copper solids yet..
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Baldrick314 » 09 Jan 2015, 6:34 am

brett1868 wrote:Not sure about brass jacketed projectiles or why you'd bother and if they are any better then copper jackets.


I don't know the purpose these days, apart from just tinkering/ being thrifty, but back during the depression Fred Huntington developed a system for doing this because projectiles were so hard to come by. The funds from selling these system let him found RCBS. There's your fun fact for today :lol:
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Tiiger » 09 Jan 2015, 9:55 am

Adding to all above, I can see you'd have all sorts of issues getting the case head close enough to spec to be half smooth putting them through shell holders and feeding/ejecting with the extractor.

Sounds like a nightmare to get a workable case honestly...
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Gregg » 10 Jan 2015, 4:28 pm

That would have to be some seriously rare brass to go to those lengths.

I'd say there would almost always be something, can't think of any that wouldn't off the top of my head, that you could neck up or down or .etc to size into another chambering without having to go to the length of casting.

If it even worked...
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Korkt » 21 Jan 2015, 12:22 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Cast brass will be way too brittle. It needs to be maliable/soft.


It would add a new dimension to annealing, that's for sure.
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Mich » 21 Jan 2015, 12:31 pm

Chronos wrote:Casting is a poor process for making strong flexible vessels like cases.


Ailar,

It also doesn't make a smooth finish. All surfaces of the brass would be pitted and textured. If a smooth finish is required on a cast metal project it's machined down afterwards.

Straight out of the mould the brass would be such a mess I don't know if you'd want to use it anyway.
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Jack V » 21 Jan 2015, 1:21 pm

This thread is at cross purposes.

Making a brass cartridge case is a bit different to making a bullet jacket but similar in that both are in part drawing (extruding) processes and some stamping (blanking) and punching.

As said by others casting would not produce the required properties in a cartridge case. It would be good if it did, would be way cheaper to do.
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by ailar » 21 Jan 2015, 2:45 pm

Jack V wrote:As said by others casting would not produce the required properties in a cartridge case. It would be good if it did, would be way cheaper to do.


Oh well.

Yeah, would be good. Melt down split and old brass and turn into into new brass instead of throwing it in the trash.

$$$
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Jack V » 21 Jan 2015, 3:10 pm

One thing you can do with fired rimfire brass is use them as jackets to make 22 rimfire bullets . Thy are mainly suitable for lower velocities and shoot less accurately than most commercial bullets but can still give reasonable results . In a 22 Hornet 222 or a 223 they can take smaller game ok.
It's the setting up that costs a fair bit so it takes years to save any money .
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2015, 5:35 pm

Here is a thread on that very subject.

Making .223 bullets from .22LR cases
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Jack V » 21 Jan 2015, 8:01 pm

There is a trick to making these rimfire jacket bullets shoot a bit better, well in my rifle anyway.

I swage with a concave base punch. It pulls the firing pin dent in from the edge and helps accuracy.

Also getting them extra clean inside is hard. I have not tried yet but I reckon wet tumbling in small size SS media with Citric acid mix should be more efficient or maybe ultrasonic.

Getting them extra clean also aids accuracy due to better rotational balance and core grip.
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by inventurkey » 22 Jan 2015, 11:07 am

What size groups are you getting from them, Jack?
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by Jack V » 22 Jan 2015, 3:41 pm

In my 223 the best average I got was 1.25 MOA. Sometimes I could produce a sub 1 MOA but not often.

Before I used concave base punches the accuracy was around 1.5 MOA. If I drove them too fast the accuracy seemed to get worse. I never did exhaustive testing with them as I make better bullets with commercial jackets anyway and it's far less work but in an emergency I would use them again if I had to.

Most people try and use them at too higher velocities and expect BR accuracy it just don't happen that I have ever seen anyway. If you use a good commercial jacket like a J4 and make the bullets correctly you can expect very good accuracy and consistency over a longer period.

Bullets vary a fair bit from batch to batch even BR quality does but to a lesser degree. Core bonding them ( solder process ) can make them more resistant to higher velocities but getting the jackets clean enough inside to do a good bonding job is hard. I need to do more work in that area. Bonding a nice new clean commercial jacket is easy.

There are people on other forums making wild claims for these rimfire jacket bullets performance but it's exaggerated as far as my experience goes. They can be useful but have their limitations.
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Re: Casting your own brass

Post by inventurkey » 23 Jan 2015, 12:55 pm

Jack V wrote:In my 223 the best average I got was 1.25 MOA. Sometimes I could produce a sub 1 MOA but not often.


Better than some factory ammo so that's something.
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