Fired brass chambering issues

[Boothy89]

G'day Fellas,

I'm very new to reloading so I'm a little lost. I am attempting to reload 308 win. I have some once fired brass (American eagle) that I got from a mate. I have de-capped them all through my Lee re-sizing die. I trimmed them to the recommended case length (2.005 inches) and I am using 165 grain Sierra HPBT at COL of 2.750.

So using the brass I have from my mate, when I try to chamber the new reloaded round into my Savage Axis, it will go in just fine but to lock down the bolt takes a large amount of force. I have checked that its not an issue with the COL as I went well below the COL as a test. I have also tried just using the brass on its own after it has been re-sized and trimmed. I was still having huge issues in chambering it.

My rifle has no issues chambering factory rounds that have never been fired. Is it an issue with my re-sizing die? or am I missing a step somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Boothy

[Tiiger]

I have de-capped them all through my Lee re-sizing die.

I'm going to take a guess and say you've got a neck sizing die there? Not a full-length sizing die?

[Boothy89]

Forgive my noobness, but how do I tell the difference. I bought the three die set from lee which 'allegedly' has the full length sizing die.

[Boothy89]

I have just gone through the full 100 bits of brass I got from my mate after they were decapped, re-sized and trimmed. Around a third of them chambered perfectly the rest were really really stiff to lock the bolt down. Is it something to do with my re-sizing die?

[Gwion]

First guess is like the previous post. Wrong die.

One die should say FL (full length) and the other one NECK. It does on my RCBS ones, anyway.

If you check and it does say FL or similar, then you may not have it set up in the press correctly and it may be missing the last bit of forming on the cases. Refer to a good loading manual for correct die/press set up.

With neck sizing there is no pressure in the press until near the top of the stroke. With full length sizing, there is significant pressure through out the stroke.

I'd personally be pulling the rounds apart and starting again. Don't know what to do about live primers, though.

[Gwion]

Oh, Just saw your new post after posting a reply. Maybe the die isn't set up right or you aren't consistently going through the full stroke or a bit of both. Sounds like the shoulder hasn't been set back to spec on the tight ones.

Just a guess. Hope you get it sorted.

[bigfellascott]

Oh, Just saw your new post after posting a reply. Maybe the die isn't set up right or you aren't consistently going through the full stroke or a bit of bother. Sounds like the shoulder hasn't been set back to spec on the tight ones.

Just a guess. Hope you get it sorted.

+1 I'd say turn the die down another 1/4 turn and see how that goes with them, keep doing it until they chamber ok

[Boothy89]

Gwion, thanks for the help, I am sure its the full length sizing die, I do not have a reloading manual as yet (on the list to buy). I have looked at a number of different Youtube videos on how to set up the re-sizing die. Going off those I think I am on the right track but still having the same issues. I have the de-capping pin set about 5mm from the bottom of the die. The die it's self is lowered down until it touches the case holder then sent down about half a turn then tightened up.

Is there anything else that I should be doing? is there other adjustments on the die?

[Boothy89]

Oh, Just saw your new post after posting a reply. Maybe the die isn't set up right or you aren't consistently going through the full stroke or a bit of bother. Sounds like the shoulder hasn't been set back to spec on the tight ones.

Just a guess. Hope you get it sorted.

+1 I'd say turn the die down another 1/4 turn and see how that goes with them, keep doing it until they chamber ok

I just gave that a go then turning the die down a 1/4 turn. I went pretty far down with it and it didn't change the chambering pressure. I didn't encounter this issue when reloading my 223 ammo so I'm very lost haha.

[Jack V]

It could be a case of the expander ball pulling the shoulder back out on some cases. If you are already hard down on the shell holder then there is nowhere else much to go other than a bit of press flex which may be present . Clean up the inside and outside of the case necks and use a dry lubricant like graphite on a cotton bud inside and outside the necks . This will reduce drag on the necks as the case comes out of the die. A very good dry lube is 50% Graphite / Moly mix .
You should size the empty cases to fit the gun before you load them up. Pull apart the rounds that don't fit and try to resize them more with neck lube as above.
It would be helpful to polish up a case with steel wool and then try to chamber it without jamming it so you can see where the case is binding .
Another option a very good option is to buy a Redding body die in 308W . This will allow sizing again without decapping the new primer . There is no decapping rod or expander ball to complicate the process. Once you have this die you will see what else it can do and then you throw the full length sizing die as far into the bush as you can. You still have to size the necks though with the neck only die .
To size to the gun you start with a tight case and size it down a bit at a time until the bolt just closes on the case with some resistance but fully closes , then adjust the die down another 1/16 of a turn and lock it up . Don't adjust the die more than 1/8 of a turn at a time while zeroing in on the right position as you can easily over shoot the right spot. It's slower but far more accurate and less likely to create excess headspace.

[newsteadvic]

These problems are nearly always die-adjustment related. Take the die out, re-read the set up instructions and re-size.

The Lee Deluxe 3 Die set is FL-size, Bullet Seating and Neck Sizing.
The Lee Pace-setter 3 Die set is FL-size, Bullet Seating and Crimp Die

So it depends which one you have about whether you will have only a FL-die or both. It is marked on the body of the die.

[Jack V]

The best setup in my opinion for a bottle neck rifle cartridge for the average non competition home loader is a Lee collet die neck sizer a Redding body die and a Redding or Fosters bullet seater. That's all you need and no stinking rotten expander balls that ruin cases and accuracy .

[Jack V]

These problems are nearly always die-adjustment related. Take the die out, re-read the set up instructions and re-size.

The Lee Deluxe 3 Die set is FL-size, Bullet Seating and Neck Sizing.
The Lee Pace-setter 3 Die set is FL-size, Bullet Seating and Crimp Die

So it depends which one you have about whether you will have only a FL-die or both. It is marked on the body of the die.

I agree it usually is bad die adjustment but in a few cases I have also seen dies that would not size down far enough for the chamber in question .
In the end you have to grind down the shell holder to get some extra size or buy a tight base die . Some guns just have very tight chambers compared to others.

[Boothy89]

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

Love your work!

[yoshie]

It could be you seating die is too far in. It may be buckling the shoulder just enough when you seat a bullet, it's hard to see and will be inconsistent because each case will be a different length, that's my some may achamber and some won't. It's caused by the internals of the die pushing down on the case mouth. If this is the cause you'll need to pull the bullets, and powder, remove the deprimer rod and resize the cases with your FL die. Then reassemble.

[Gwion]

It could be you seating die is too far in. It may be buckling the shoulder just enough when you seat a bullet, it's hard to see and will be inconsistent because each case will be a different length, that's my some may achamber and some won't. It's caused by the internals of the die pushing down on the case mouth. If this is the cause you'll need to pull the bullets, and powder, remove the deprimer rod and resize the cases with your FL die. Then reassemble.

Good point, Yoshie. I did have that happen when i first set up my seating die. Screwed up one case really badly so it was obvious to fix it but can see how a slight error would be hard to pick up by eye.

Worth looking at as a possibility.

[sbd3927]

These problems are nearly always die-adjustment related. Take the die out, re-read the set up instructions and re-size.

The Lee Deluxe 3 Die set is FL-size, Bullet Seating and Neck Sizing.
The Lee Pace-setter 3 Die set is FL-size, Bullet Seating and Crimp Die

So it depends which one you have about whether you will have only a FL-die or both. It is marked on the body of the die.

Correction, the Ultimate (deluxe) set is 4 piece, Full length, Neck only, Bullet Seating, and Factory Crimp.
3 piece Pacesetter sets do not include Neck Only die.
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/
I thoroughly explored the options recently, and although the Ultimate sets are rarer on eBay etc, the neck die is cheaper that way.

I've yet to use my F/L die, Factory brass =>neck resize, but maybe check you are lubing the cases properly?

https://archive.org/details/Modern_Relo ... ichard_Lee
Online version, 1996 edition not the 2003 2nd Ed.

[newsteadvic]

It could be you seating die is too far in. It may be buckling the shoulder just enough when you seat a bullet, it's hard to see and will be inconsistent because each case will be a different length, that's my some may achamber and some won't. It's caused by the internals of the die pushing down on the case mouth. If this is the cause you'll need to pull the bullets, and powder, remove the deprimer rod and resize the cases with your FL die. Then reassemble.

This is a good point. I have crumpled a few cases with the seating die due to inattention and having the seating die too far down.
- does one of your sized by unloaded cases fit in the rifle chamber?

I disagree that you need to purchase another bit of gear (the redding body die) to sort out this problem, I would suggest it is best to work out why the current standard dies are not working well before going onto finer detail like body dies.

[Jack V]

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

Love your work!

Once you have mastered the body die you will never ever contemplate using a full length expander ball type die ever again on the body of the case .
You can also convert a standard full length die to a body die by cutting the top section off and drilling the neck size section out to about .010 over the max fired neck diameter .

[newsteadvic]

Correction, the Ultimate (deluxe) set is 4 piece, Full length, Neck only, Bullet Seating, and Factory Crimp.
3 piece Pacesetter sets do not include Neck Only die.
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/
I thoroughly explored the options recently, and although the Ultimate sets are rarer on eBay etc, the neck die is cheaper that way.

Those 4 dies sets look good however, the Original Poster states he has a three die set. However as you suggest it looks like the Three Die Deluxe set has gone from the line up at Lee, however it is still available online:
http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-rel ... 3-die-sets

[Jack V]

It could be you seating die is too far in. It may be buckling the shoulder just enough when you seat a bullet, it's hard to see and will be inconsistent because each case will be a different length, that's my some may achamber and some won't. It's caused by the internals of the die pushing down on the case mouth. If this is the cause you'll need to pull the bullets, and powder, remove the deprimer rod and resize the cases with your FL die. Then reassemble.

This is a good point. I have crumpled a few cases with the seating die due to inattention and having the seating die too far down.
- does one of your sized by unloaded cases fit in the rifle chamber?

I disagree that you need to purchase another bit of gear (the redding body die) to sort out this problem, I would suggest it is best to work out why the current standard dies are not working well before going onto finer detail like body dies.

Never said " Need to purchase " I said "another option is a body die " . What you don't understand is body dies are easier and more simple to use than standard dies but achieve better results . It's not finer detail it's the easy way to do it .

[newsteadvic]

Never said " Need to purchase " I said "another option is a body die " . What you don't understand is body dies are easier and more simple to use than standard dies but achieve better results . It's not finer detail it's the easy way to do it .

It's alright Jack, not disagreeing with you, was disagreeing with :

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

However I would debate the point about the body die being easier to use as it introduces a second variable to the sizing process. The entire thread is about using brass fired in a different rifle by a mate:

I have some once fired brass (American eagle) that I got from a mate. I have de-capped them all through my Lee re-sizing die. I trimmed them to the recommended case length (2.005 inches) and I am using 165 grain Sierra HPBT at COL of 2.750.

Wouldn't it be kinder to give beginner reloaders a safe, single stage instruction like use a FL die for this second hand brass, rather than juggle a neck sizing and then body sizing die?

[Oldbloke]

Yes, beginners need simple and clear instruction, and just the basic gear.

[RealNick]

I'm very new to reloading so I'm a little lost.

It happens mate

You'll muck up a few things, learn, once you get it down it's no big deal.

[Warrigul]

xxzz

[newsteadvic]

Have you been able to work the problem out Boothy?

As Warrigul suggests do you have someone with a few reloads under their belt that can have a hands on look for you?

[Jack V]

Never said " Need to purchase " I said "another option is a body die " . What you don't understand is body dies are easier and more simple to use than standard dies but achieve better results . It's not finer detail it's the easy way to do it .

It's alright Jack, not disagreeing with you, was disagreeing with :

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

However I would debate the point about the body die being easier to use as it introduces a second variable to the sizing process. The entire thread is about using brass fired in a different rifle by a mate:

I have some once fired brass (American eagle) that I got from a mate. I have de-capped them all through my Lee re-sizing die. I trimmed them to the recommended case length (2.005 inches) and I am using 165 grain Sierra HPBT at COL of 2.750.

Wouldn't it be kinder to give beginner reloaders a safe, single stage instruction like use a FL die for this second hand brass, rather than juggle a neck sizing and then body sizing die?

No ! because a standard full length die is way harder to use than a body die and you still have to use a neck die at times anyway .
I made my first body die around 1967 to address loading issues but here it is 2015 and it is still looked upon as something unusual.

[Warrigul]

xxzz

[fuggle]

5 is about the magic number when a fire-formed brass needs a reset with the FL die you reckon W?

Haven't hit that number with mine yet.

[Warrigul]

xxzz