Fired brass chambering issues

[Jack V]

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

Love your work!

Once you have mastered the body die you will never ever contemplate using a full length expander ball type die ever again on the body of the case .
You can also convert a standard full length die to a body die by cutting the top section off and drilling the neck size section out to about .010 over the max fired neck diameter .

[newsteadvic]

Correction, the Ultimate (deluxe) set is 4 piece, Full length, Neck only, Bullet Seating, and Factory Crimp.
3 piece Pacesetter sets do not include Neck Only die.
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/
I thoroughly explored the options recently, and although the Ultimate sets are rarer on eBay etc, the neck die is cheaper that way.

Those 4 dies sets look good however, the Original Poster states he has a three die set. However as you suggest it looks like the Three Die Deluxe set has gone from the line up at Lee, however it is still available online:
http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-rel ... 3-die-sets

[Jack V]

It could be you seating die is too far in. It may be buckling the shoulder just enough when you seat a bullet, it's hard to see and will be inconsistent because each case will be a different length, that's my some may achamber and some won't. It's caused by the internals of the die pushing down on the case mouth. If this is the cause you'll need to pull the bullets, and powder, remove the deprimer rod and resize the cases with your FL die. Then reassemble.

This is a good point. I have crumpled a few cases with the seating die due to inattention and having the seating die too far down.
- does one of your sized by unloaded cases fit in the rifle chamber?

I disagree that you need to purchase another bit of gear (the redding body die) to sort out this problem, I would suggest it is best to work out why the current standard dies are not working well before going onto finer detail like body dies.

Never said " Need to purchase " I said "another option is a body die " . What you don't understand is body dies are easier and more simple to use than standard dies but achieve better results . It's not finer detail it's the easy way to do it .

[newsteadvic]

Never said " Need to purchase " I said "another option is a body die " . What you don't understand is body dies are easier and more simple to use than standard dies but achieve better results . It's not finer detail it's the easy way to do it .

It's alright Jack, not disagreeing with you, was disagreeing with :

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

However I would debate the point about the body die being easier to use as it introduces a second variable to the sizing process. The entire thread is about using brass fired in a different rifle by a mate:

I have some once fired brass (American eagle) that I got from a mate. I have de-capped them all through my Lee re-sizing die. I trimmed them to the recommended case length (2.005 inches) and I am using 165 grain Sierra HPBT at COL of 2.750.

Wouldn't it be kinder to give beginner reloaders a safe, single stage instruction like use a FL die for this second hand brass, rather than juggle a neck sizing and then body sizing die?

[Oldbloke]

Yes, beginners need simple and clear instruction, and just the basic gear.

[RealNick]

I'm very new to reloading so I'm a little lost.

It happens mate

You'll muck up a few things, learn, once you get it down it's no big deal.

[Warrigul]

xxzz

[newsteadvic]

Have you been able to work the problem out Boothy?

As Warrigul suggests do you have someone with a few reloads under their belt that can have a hands on look for you?

[Jack V]

Never said " Need to purchase " I said "another option is a body die " . What you don't understand is body dies are easier and more simple to use than standard dies but achieve better results . It's not finer detail it's the easy way to do it .

It's alright Jack, not disagreeing with you, was disagreeing with :

Thanks heaps guys, I think I might give the redding die set up a run and see how it goes.

However I would debate the point about the body die being easier to use as it introduces a second variable to the sizing process. The entire thread is about using brass fired in a different rifle by a mate:

I have some once fired brass (American eagle) that I got from a mate. I have de-capped them all through my Lee re-sizing die. I trimmed them to the recommended case length (2.005 inches) and I am using 165 grain Sierra HPBT at COL of 2.750.

Wouldn't it be kinder to give beginner reloaders a safe, single stage instruction like use a FL die for this second hand brass, rather than juggle a neck sizing and then body sizing die?

No ! because a standard full length die is way harder to use than a body die and you still have to use a neck die at times anyway .
I made my first body die around 1967 to address loading issues but here it is 2015 and it is still looked upon as something unusual.

[Warrigul]

xxzz

[fuggle]

5 is about the magic number when a fire-formed brass needs a reset with the FL die you reckon W?

Haven't hit that number with mine yet.

[Warrigul]

xxzz

[fuggle]

It's not a fixed rule, you should note when they start to get a bit sticky and the reload before that is when you either need to bump with the body die or FL die, if you have to force them in to the chamber with a lot of pressure you are only wearing your lugs and action un neccesarily.

Yeah I know it's all on a case-by-case basis and there are no firm numbers to doing this stuff.

Like I said not even at 5 yet with mine so haven't been paying much attention to case wear, head separation etc. No problems chambering either. About time I start paying attention to them now they're getting some use though.

[Jack V]

No ! because a standard full length die is way harder to use than a body die and you still have to use a neck die at times anyway .
I made my first body die around 1967 to address loading issues but here it is 2015 and it is still looked upon as something unusual.

For use on the range I neck size .308 and occaisonally give the cases a bump with the body die when they get a bit stiff but I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner and the hassle of keeping track of it all outweighs the benefits for hunting.

If the OP wants to neck size(and my favorite method is with a collett die) it is far simpler for him to neck size five or so times then run them all through the FL die.

KISS, just my humble opinions.

There is no hassle mate . You don't have to keep track of anything if you don't want to , the chamber fit keeps track for you . You can make it complicated as you want but it doe not have to be that way at all. Again a body die is simpler to set up and use than a normal full length sizing die . Always was and always will be. How and when you neck size has no bearing on the body die and lubrication is made much easier than compared to a FL die.
I use collet dies also with body dies and there is no way on God's Earth I would go back to standard FL dies with expander balls for a bolt action .
Neck sizing for a while then using the body die when they get a bit tight is exactly what I am saying and it's way better than a FL die.

[Warrigul]

xxzz

[Boothy89]

What I'm thinking on doing at the moment, a friend of mine has a set of Lyman dies that will fit my Lee press. I was thinking on setting that up run a couple of cases through to see if it they will chamber properly. If that fails try the redding with the separate neck and FL sizing dies.

[Jack V]

Ya know what, YOU find it simpler and even I find it easy. Body dies and collet dies are great for case longevity and fit.

But it is complicating the issue in this case when all the OP is trying to do is find out what is happening with what he already has to use.

Hang on mate you steered the conversation around to this not me . I Just suggested another option without any inference of better or easier or anything other than just ANOTHER OPTION . It is relevant to this thread because it's easier to do for new reloaders .

[Warrigul]

Hang on mate you steered the conversation around to this not me . I Just suggested another option without any inference of better or easier or anything other than just ANOTHER OPTION . It is relevant to this thread because it's easier to do for new reloaders .

Just to get rid of all the BS growing in this thread I will say "You are right and I am wrong".

Cheers happyjack.

[Broom]

What I'm thinking on doing at the moment, a friend of mine has a set of Lyman dies that will fit my Lee press. I was thinking on setting that up run a couple of cases through to see if it they will chamber properly. If that fails try the redding with the separate neck and FL sizing dies.

If he has a full-length size die (should do if he has a "set") to try that's definitely worth doing.

Don't worry about these two old nags having their domestic here

[Warrigul]

Don't worry about these two old nags having their domestic here

Nope, I have run across him in the past and am out of this thread now. I will do a bit of a cleanup.

[Boothy89]

Have you been able to work the problem out Boothy?

As Warrigul suggests do you have someone with a few reloads under their belt that can have a hands on look for you?

No mate, I haven't sorted the issue yet. I don't really know anyone that has been into the reloading for a long enough time to take a look at this stage. I have been reloading the 223 with great success so I'm a little confused how I am having so much trouble with the 308.

As I posted earlier, I don't know what you guys think about trying a different set of borrowed dies and see if that makes a difference.

And just a quick note I saw someone ask if I'm sure the cases are lubed enough. I am now using the one shot spray lube and I am hitting it pretty heavy with the lube inside the case mouth and externally. (I was previously using the Lee re-sizing lube that came with the reloading kit.

[Gwion]

Hey Boothy. It must be frustrating as hell. Pretty new to reloading myself; just a year into it. You may (probably) have covered this already but are the cases all trimmed to length?

Beyond that, so many different comments and advices from different angles, i know it gets confusing. Do your self a favour and buy/get a reloading manual or two. Nick Harvey's book is well recommended and has great info but if you can't get your hands on one easily, search the web you can download ADI, Hornady etc etc, free. They may not be the most current version but the basics are the basics. I have downloaded a few, plus have NH book and the one that came with my kit (RCBS). Read one, then read the other, then read an other, then re-read them all. They all cover similar stuff but some have things that aren't covered by others and some are written differently and may put things in a way that makes more sense to you.

If you still can't fix the issue and there is no club or veteran loader to help you out, buy a new die (or borrow one as you mention above). Manufacturing & quality control being what it is, some times a dud gets through and there may be an issue with the die. Not sure how this will be the case, as some of your cases are ok so i'm thinking there is inconsistency in your process somewhere.

Anyway. I can't help anymore than that, so good luck and hope you get it sorted soon!

Cheers and stay safe!

[newsteadvic]

And just a quick note I saw someone ask if I'm sure the cases are lubed enough. I am now using the one shot spray lube and I am hitting it pretty heavy with the lube inside the case mouth and externally. (I was previously using the Lee re-sizing lube that came with the reloading kit.

These sorts of problems are not a case lube problem. In fact too much lube can cause problems by crinckling the neck due to incompressable liquid lube building up in the neck area of the die. Case lube problems are more like very difficult re-sizing, sticking in the die and even getting cases stuck in the die.

[Boothy89]

Hey Boothy. It must be frustrating as hell. Pretty new to reloading myself; just a year into it. You may (probably) have covered this already but are the cases all trimmed to length?

G'day Gwion,

Yeah all the cases have been trimmed to the recommended length of 2.005.

Thanks I'll do that, I haven't got a reloading manual at the moment I have just been trusting the google gods and youtube lol. I think I will invest in the Nick Harvey manual now and give it a go. Thanks for your help mate, very much appreciated!

Cheers!

[Jack V]

If you bought modern dies lubrication is way easier to do . Lee collet die , no lube required . Body die , lube only the body section not even the shoulder or neck .

It's piss easy , easy to adjust to correct chamber fit and more accurate . All you need then is a bottle of RCBS liquid lube.

The problem with some books like Uncle Nicks which are fine on there own but do promote somewhat old fashioned ways .

Manufacturers don't want you using better systems because that makes cases last longer .

[Broom]

As I posted earlier, I don't know what you guys think about trying a different set of borrowed dies and see if that makes a difference.

Definitely worth trying.

Put it through a full-length die you know works.

It'll either identify the problem or rule it out. Either way it's progress.

[Bark]

And just a quick note I saw someone ask if I'm sure the cases are lubed enough.

It won't be due to lack of lube.

Without enough lube the cases would be hard to put through the die or could get stuck, but ultimately if you can complete a full rise and fall of the arm to get the case in and out of the die it will have been resized.

[Jack V]

It's a good idea to try another die as sometimes a die shell holder combination just can't get down far enough for your chamber.

2 years back I helped a guy from another forum with similar issues with his 22 WSSM . In the end I went to his place and had to grind down the shell holder a bit to fix the problem. It just illustrates that not all dies will be a good match for every chamber.

Also some times in a case like this you have to adjust the die down so that it pushes against the shell holder with some moderate force to take the spring out of the press to get that extra bit of sizing. If you do that and you still can't chamber the case might be time for a small base body die.

[Sender]

Also some times in a case like this you have to adjust the die down so that it pushes against the shell holder with some moderate force to take the spring out of the press to get that extra bit of sizing.

That's what I've always done with mine.

Raise the arm with the shell holder on, screw down the die to touch it, lower the arm and give the die another half turn to give it that last bit of squeeze.

[Boothy89]

Thanks for all your help guys! very much appreciated. Finally I have managed to fix the problem. I borrowed a set of Lyman dies and put them all through the full length sizing die. They all now chamber with almost no effort at all!! Now to bugger up the next step haha.

Thanks again everybody!

Boothy