Light ring around base of brass

[sally-bee]

Hi all,

I've been collecting a bit of brass since starting shooting, I notice some has a ring of lighter colour about a cm up from the base of the case.

Like it's worn maybe?

Just wondering what it is.

[Silver87]

G'day, what rifle and calibre are you shooting as that may help to work it out.

[bigfellascott]

Put some pics up and show us some of your firearms whilst ya at it

[deye243]

now forget that this is a belted case but if it's like this it is just expansion ahead of the web

IMG_1470 (Medium).JPG (120.08 KiB) Viewed 5875 times

[sally-bee]

G'day, what rifle and calibre are you shooting as that may help to work it out.

Hi guys.

.308 Tikka Silver, thanks.

[sally-bee]

now forget that this is a belted case but if it's like this it is just expansion ahead of the web

Hmm, it does't look quite the same.

That looks like it is the tip of an angle like the brass is pushed up? This is more of a coloured line but no obvious ridge in the brass case like that.

[sally-bee]

Put some pics up and show us some of your firearms whilst ya at it

I'm on my break at work but Googled for this which is the same as far as I can tell from the picture.

This is someone elses brass, not mine, but it's the same to look at.

1qh9fq-1.jpg (26.48 KiB) Viewed 5844 times

[mahna]

now forget that this is a belted case but if it's like this it is just expansion ahead of the web

Noob question, what's the "web" exactly?

[Khan]

The web is the solid part of the base of the case.

[Klem]

Some expansion and thinning in that are of the case is normal.

See this (credit to massreloading website)

case-neck.jpg (10.49 KiB) Viewed 5840 times

This will show more as the brass continues to fire.

Initially it's no problem, normal like we said, eventually though you get what's called case/head separation where that thinning finally gives way and the cartridges comes in half at the line in the chamber when fired. That ain't good.

How many times has the brass you're talking about been fired?

[sally-bee]

Hi guys,

Aaaarhm, 1-3 times fired at most?

[bigfellascott]

Put some pics up and show us some of your firearms whilst ya at it

I'm on my break at work but Googled for this which is the same as far as I can tell from the picture.

This is someone elses brass, not mine, but it's the same to look at.

1qh9fq-1.jpg

That's ok, when you get home from work take some pics of the rifle and also the cases so we can see exactly what's going on.

[Jack V]

When you pick up second hand brass there is a good chance it's fired a lot of shots . So my advice to a a new reloader is start with new brass . It's safer until you learn more about inspecting old brass. Spotting the difference in the external expansion ring appearance between normal and incipient head separation takes some experience . If you start with new cases the expansion ring will be normal and you will know that .

[Warrigul]

Is it winchester brass?

[sally-bee]

Is it winchester brass?

Good guess, yep.

[sally-bee]

That's ok, when you get home from work take some pics of the rifle and also the cases so we can see exactly what's going on.

Didn't get to it but will do

[Warrigul]

Is it winchester brass?

Good guess, yep.

I will dig out some cases later and take pics, but for safety's sake don't use the cases for the moment if you wouldn't mind.

The base diameter on winchester cases is within SAAMI specs and perfectly safe, but is on the minimum side of the tolerances and in max sized chambers they can wear out quickly if full length sized each time.

More to follow.

[wayward]

The base diameter on winchester cases is within SAAMI specs and perfectly safe, but is on the minimum side of the tolerances and in max sized chambers they can wear out quickly if full length sized each time.

I suppose this is answering the question before I ask it but just to check.

I read other shooters asking this as well and some suggested it was because the chamber was cut too large.

That's not the case though then, it's just being opposite ends of the tolerances giving the case more room to expand creating a more prominent, visible line.

As long as confirmed that it's not case/head separation it would still be safe to shoot wouldn't it, as everything is within tolerances. Right?

[Jack V]

It is still fine to shoot as LONG AS it is confirmed by someone who knows how to tell that the cases are not worn out .

[Grated]

As long as confirmed that it's not case/head separation it would still be safe to shoot wouldn't it, as everything is within tolerances. Right?

Do some googling on checking separation with a paperclip.

That'll give you a start if you haven't seen how to do it already.

[Warrigul]

I suppose this is answering the question before I ask it but just to check.

I read other shooters asking this as well and some suggested it was because the chamber was cut too large.

That's not the case though then, it's just being opposite ends of the tolerances giving the case more room to expand creating a more prominent, visible line.

As long as confirmed that it's not case/head separation it would still be safe to shoot wouldn't it, as everything is within tolerances. Right?

Yep, when it is starting to seperate you will see it with a careful look or felt with a 90 degree hook at the end of some thin wire, I am trying to dig out a few photos.

Case seperation so far as I have seen it in SMLE's, mausers and omarks hasn't been as big a deal as you may think, more a pain in the arse if the front half is stuck in the chamber(usually somes out fairly easily).

The potential is definately there for nasty things to happen but I have never even noticed until I see only the case head has been ejected. Usually the rest of the case comes out fairly easily. If you get one seperate don't shoot the rest of the batch until you have had a good look at them. Wearing safety glasses(as we all should) is a sensible precaution against any excess gas though most of it is usually vented away from the shooter.

If you feel sharp thinning as in KLEM's photo or see visible cracks on the outside then don't take the chance, but don't lose too much sleep.

[Jack V]

The trouble is the gas escaping can cut into the chamber walls leaving pock marks to pot holes . That can cause cleaning and extraction issues in bad cases.

The best system for a new shooter is to buy a Doctors Otoscope that lets you see inside the case. Combine that also with a feeler and you get a good picture of what's going on inside.

One of this type of thing not necessarily this brand you can buy better ones at higher prices http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YNR-Mini-Oto ... 1226365136

[Warrigul]

I would suggest that is a bit of overkill,

Whilst it is possible to cut the chamber wall it is unlikely. It is a bit different to a boltface primer burn where the leak is usually sustained and concentrated into a very precise jet. I was even getting a lot of ruptured necks withing a couple of loadings at one stage (with a brand of brass that I won't name) and they seemed to leave more marks than seperations did.

I have had a couple of dozen case seperations playing around with ex mil ammo, and one mate had heaps before he would heed advice on reloading .303 and there has never been a mark worth worrying about on mine or his.

When reloading you should take all precautions, check with wire and visually look for cracks on the outside and definately wear safety glasses but don't fret about it. If you check the cases each time you FLS you will usually get some warning.

[Warrigul]

Sally Bee, if you like PM me an address and I will send you a case that is about to seperate so you will know what to look for.

[Jack V]

I would suggest that is a bit of overkill,

Whilst it is possible to cut the chamber wall it is unlikely. It is a bit different to a boltface primer burn where the leak is usually sustained and concentrated into a very precise jet. I was even getting a lot of ruptured necks withing a couple of loadings at one stage (with a brand of brass that I won't name) and they seemed to leave more marks than seperations did.

I have had a couple of dozen case seperations playing around with ex mil ammo, and one mate had heaps before he would heed advice on reloading .303 and there has never been a mark worth worrying about on mine or his.

When reloading you should take all precautions, check with wire and visually look for cracks on the outside and definately wear safety glasses but don't fret about it. If you check the cases each time you FLS you will usually get some warning.

Well the potential damage is only limited by what pressure level is behind the head separation . I have seen some that don't do much damage and I have also seen some that roughen the chamber which can cause issues and some that wreck the gun . Just because it don't happen in every case does not mean it can't happen . Any kind of gas leak even minor is not good for a gun .

[sally-bee]

Sally Bee, if you like PM me an address and I will send you a case that is about to seperate so you will know what to look for.

I'm actually in process of getting a PO box at the moment.

Should have in the next week or two. I'll message then if that's ok, appreciate it

[Warrigul]

Well the potential damage is only limited by what pressure level is behind the head separation . I have seen some that don't do much damage and I have also seen some that roughen the chamber which can cause issues and some that wreck the gun . Just because it don't happen in every case does not mean it can't happen . Any kind of gas leak even minor is not good for a gun .

Yes always best to avoid if possible.

Minor leaks occur regularly and even occur when a case is fireformed to a chamber initially.

Just remember that if it is a pressure issue then case degradation isn't the primary cause and separation is only an indication of something wrong. If a firearm is wrecked case separation probably wasn't the cause only a visable symptom.

Chambers are made of far stouter material than cartridges and can withstand great temperature.

[Warrigul]

I'm actually in process of getting a PO box at the moment.

Should have in the next week or two. I'll message then if that's ok, appreciate it

No dramas, whenever I come across a case I put it to one side and hand it on. Just let me know when you want it.

[Jack V]

Yes always best to avoid if possible.

Minor leaks occur regularly and even occur when a case is fireformed to a chamber initially.

Just remember that if it is a pressure issue then case degradation isn't the primary cause and separation is only an indication of something wrong. If a firearm is wrecked case separation probably wasn't the cause only a visable symptom.

Chambers are made of far stouter material than cartridges and can withstand great temperature.

You can still have an over load put into a second-hand case that is close to incipient head separation without the reloader knowing that and it's a worse situation than a new stronger case . If the same load was placed in a good case it may be a blown primer but in the weakened case it's rampant gas pressure right into the action or worse your face . The solid cartridge base is a big part of an actions ability to contain chamber pressures safely .

[Bills Shed]

The best system for a new shooter is to buy a Doctors Otoscope that lets you see inside the case. Combine that also with a feeler and you get a good picture of what's going on inside.

One of this type of thing not necessarily this brand you can buy better ones at higher prices http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YNR-Mini-Oto ... 1226365136

I agree this is a bit of an over kill !! Maybe if you were a gear junkie and could not think of a Christmas present for yourself.
I have only had case head seperations with my old .303s. As Warragul said it is more of an incovenience than a drama. The thin piece of wire ( paper clip) feeler gauge works well to detect a thin wall section and the Mk 1 eyeball cost nothing to run. Case head seperation is a definate failure and there is a definate, crisp line in the case wall where it is going to happen. I inspect my Hornet cases for signs of failure but it takes a lot of shooting to get there if using sensible pressures.

Bill