Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tactice » 04 Apr 2015, 6:28 pm

Trying to work out how I did this.

.308 brass that's been reloaded 3 or 4 times, loaded 100 rounds all fine except two which have crumpled evenly down, not just a dent on the side. Like the shoulder was pushed down by a ring. 1 about a mm, the other is about 2mm.

I sized and primed them all first and didn't notice a problem and with the way they've gone down it's like the tension of the bullet in the next was too much and has squashed it down.

I didn't expect to be able to do that in seating a bullet though, I thought it would only be during sizing the brass.

Anyone?
Remington 700 VTR .22-250 Rem
Remington 700 VTR .308 Win
User avatar
tactice
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Queensland

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by newsteadvic » 04 Apr 2015, 6:37 pm

Yes, I have done it a few times.
Two possibilities that have happened with me"
1. seating die set up incorrect or has changed a bit since the last reloading session - the case mouth is pushed down by the seating die as the case is raised into it
2. Correct die set up however case length has increased over a few firings leading to the same problem of the die pushing the case mouth down. The case needs a trim.

You don't mention if you are Full length resizing or neck sizing only.
newsteadvic
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 138
Victoria

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tom604 » 04 Apr 2015, 10:58 pm

ill be watching this thread, interesting, never had it happen to me but would like to find out the reason :geek:
User avatar
tom604
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1053
South Australia

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by brett1868 » 04 Apr 2015, 11:41 pm

I seem to do this same thing with the odd .375 Cheytac case, I can resize 100 with out an issue and every so often get one a bit crumpled. The Cheytac FL sizing die isn't like the RCBS dies where they touch the shell holder then cam over. Die has to be adjusted down till it bumps the shoulder down by .001" and works for %99 of shells but crumples the other %1. If not crumpled too much I just fire form them otherwise they get scrapped.
I have on occasion with the puny calibres had the seating die just a little too far down and was engaging the crimp before the projectile was fully seated. As others have suggested, check the die setup in the press, ensure there's no crud in the die and check your case length. Possibly the case can be fire formed back to shape though being .308 and reasonably cheap, I'd just scrap it. If you scrap the case maybe cut it length ways and see if there's a thin spot in the brass, might just be a few dud cases you have.
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by deye243 » 05 Apr 2015, 1:13 am

wouldn't be a lee seating die by any chance would it
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Apr 2015, 6:16 am

What projectile type - Flat based or Boat Tail? also do you chamfer the mouths or not? Any Pics of the cases too would also be of help. :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tactice » 05 Apr 2015, 8:45 am

newsteadvic wrote:Two possibilities that have happened with me"
1. seating die set up incorrect or has changed a bit since the last reloading session - the case mouth is pushed down by the seating die as the case is raised into it
2. Correct die set up however case length has increased over a few firings leading to the same problem of the die pushing the case mouth down. The case needs a trim.

You don't mention if you are Full length resizing or neck sizing only.


1. All were done during the same session, From where I put the loads in the ammo box they happened about a third of the way through and 15-20 rounds apart to. The rest were all find so not the die.

2. I trimmed them two firings ago. It's hard to tell comparing the necks of the squashed ones to straight ones but they look the same length. It's possible I could have missed 2 I guess though.

3. Neck sizing here.
Remington 700 VTR .22-250 Rem
Remington 700 VTR .308 Win
User avatar
tactice
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Queensland

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tactice » 05 Apr 2015, 8:51 am

brett1868 wrote:If not crumpled too much I just fire form them otherwise they get scrapped.


These two had flattened so they expanded a little ring out where the body meets the shoulder.

Made them get stuck a mm out from being full inserted because it couldn't fill where the barrel narrows for the case shoulder (hope that made sense :oops:)

brett1868 wrote:I have on occasion with the puny calibres had the seating die just a little too far down and was engaging the crimp before the projectile was fully seated. As others have suggested, check the die setup in the press, ensure there's no crud in the die and check your case length. Possibly the case can be fire formed back to shape though being .308 and reasonably cheap, I'd just scrap it. If you scrap the case maybe cut it length ways and see if there's a thin spot in the brass, might just be a few dud cases you have.


No crimp. Could be crud in the neck from tumbling.

Cases can't be saved, will see about cutting one.

I guess I just put this down to two duds like you said.
Remington 700 VTR .22-250 Rem
Remington 700 VTR .308 Win
User avatar
tactice
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Queensland

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tactice » 05 Apr 2015, 8:52 am

deye243 wrote:wouldn't be a lee seating die by any chance would it


RCBS
Remington 700 VTR .22-250 Rem
Remington 700 VTR .308 Win
User avatar
tactice
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Queensland

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tactice » 05 Apr 2015, 8:53 am

bigfellascott wrote:What projectile type - Flat based or Boat Tail? also do you chamfer the mouths or not? Any Pics of the cases too would also be of help. :thumbsup:


Boat tail. Chamfered lightly with one of these ones
Attachments
chamfer.jpg
chamfer.jpg (3.38 KiB) Viewed 3352 times
Remington 700 VTR .22-250 Rem
Remington 700 VTR .308 Win
User avatar
tactice
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Queensland

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by Humir » 05 Apr 2015, 11:19 am

Probably just an unfortunate combination of factors for a problem case or two.

Neck a bit stretched, too long and thin/weak? Bit of gunk in the neck, bullet seated slightly off.

It's only 1% - 2% failure rate of the brass if you look at it that way.
User avatar
Humir
Private
Private
 
Posts: 90
Tasmania

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by headspace » 07 Apr 2015, 8:42 pm

What brand of brass mate?
If it's not wood and blued steel, it's not one of mine
headspace
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 738
New South Wales

Re: Crumpled some shoulders seating bullets

Post by tactice » 09 Apr 2015, 9:28 am

Winchester mate.
Remington 700 VTR .22-250 Rem
Remington 700 VTR .308 Win
User avatar
tactice
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Queensland


Back to top
 
Return to Reloading ammunition