Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

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Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by chrispy88 » 22 Apr 2015, 5:37 pm

Hi All, recently bought a heap of different ammo to see what the new .223 likes (not set up to reload just yet).

One of the ones I bought were Sellier and Bellot soft points. These things seem way too hot and/or soft primers. As you can see in the pic below i had one punch straight through the primer. Next to it is a Federal blue for reference.

All the S&B primers cratered, flattened and started moving back out of the case. I tried 10 and gave up. Should I take the rest back rather than risk putting through the rifle? Groups were crap too.

Also of concern was the box was labeled 223 Rem but case stamps say 5.56x45. Maybe this is why? Thanks.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Apollo » 22 Apr 2015, 6:32 pm

Don't know anything about S&B Factory Ammo but the pierced primer is a worry and something you do not want to happen again as it will damage your bolt face. It would be interesting to see what a Chronograph showed for speed. Maybe they are hot loads or perhaps just very soft primers.

Federal generally are soft primers, be it factory ammo or using their primers in your reloading. Some are thicker but again it's hard to know what they use in their factory ammo.

Cratering like you show is not a big issue and cratering in general is not a reliable indication of over pressure or hot loads. Cratering can be caused by a number of reasons like firing pin diameter to bolt clearance, excessive headspace, soft primer cup etc. Flattened primers right out to the edge of the primer pocket is a much better sign but really determining hot loads is to measure the cartridge case after firing with a micrometer looking at case expansion.

There is not a great deal of difference in military ammo as in 5.56x45 compared to .223R in a .223R Chambered Rifle but the opposite can be quite different.

Your Federal Case looks fine so either fire the rest of that packet of S&B and see what happens, take them back and see what the shop has to say. If you have more than one packet I'd take them all back and try something else.

By the looks of your firearms list I take it that this would be in your Howa which I know nothing about what the chamber size may be or how they set factory headspace without measuring your fired rounds.

Safe side, don't fire any more.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Oldbloke » 22 Apr 2015, 6:46 pm

+1 I purchsed 100 rounds very, very cheap for my new 223. They were showing signs of being a little hot and groups were terrible. ( not as bad as yoursthough)Fired about 50 and (due to distance from lgs) dismantled the rest. Used the cases in reloads and got nice groups immediately. Noticed also that the cases varied a fair bit in weight. Apeared about half were say ....5 grains lighter than the rest but consistant, like they came from a different die/production line.
I would return those if feasible.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by dogmatix » 22 Apr 2015, 8:04 pm

I find S&B ammo to be loaded quite hot anyway. Having typically thicker 5.56x45 cases with smaller internal capacity and higher pressures won't help either.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by chrispy88 » 22 Apr 2015, 9:08 pm

Thanks guys. I might err on the side of caution and see if the shop will take them back n swap for something else.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by wrenchman » 23 Apr 2015, 1:28 am

is this the only rounds you have this problim with
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Baronvonrort » 23 Apr 2015, 2:37 pm

chrispy88 wrote:
Also of concern was the box was labeled 223 Rem but case stamps say 5.56x45. Maybe this is why? Thanks.


I reckon the problem is running 5.56 nato in a .223 rem, the 5.56 has higher pressures.

I would not use 5.56 nato in a .223.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by chrispy88 » 23 Apr 2015, 5:39 pm

Yeah this is the only ammo I've had the problem with. Federals were fine.

I think that is the case Baron, pretty poor form selling 5.56 rounds in a box labelled "223 Rem" if you ask me.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Bourt » 24 Apr 2015, 1:37 pm

If you've got unused boxes I'd definitely take them back.

Inaccurate in your rifle wouldn't normally be enough of a reason for them to take them back but seeing the quality issues there I'd give it a go.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by bunnybuster » 25 Apr 2015, 3:53 pm

I've been using S&B 303 for a while now,174gr fmj for military comp,no problems,

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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by bluerob » 26 Apr 2015, 7:14 am

Mate of mine tried some of these in his .22 Buckmark and said he was getting varying recoil with some shots.

Some felt like a hotter loaded .22 (like a Stinger) and others just went bang.

I won't be using this stuff.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Mich » 26 Apr 2015, 2:04 pm

Well that's not good.

I found there rimfire ammo can be quite good though.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by southeast varmiter » 01 Apr 2018, 8:34 pm

If it’s 5.56 your lucky you haven’t blown your face off
They have thicker cases and need a throat with long lead.
In a 223 the pressure spike can be fatal.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by bigpete » 01 Apr 2018, 8:46 pm

Hmmm S&B shoot awesome in my 44 mag
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by wanneroo » 02 Apr 2018, 3:13 am

Never had one issue with S&B ammo and use a lot of their primers. Their primers are pretty hard and stout.

I think the issue here is related to your gun and shooting 5.56 NATO in a .223 Rem. You can shoot .223 Rem in a 5.56, but usually you don't want to shoot 5.56 in a 223 Rem. Here in the USA, 5.56 ammo is so common that almost every manufacturer now selling something in ".223 Rem" cuts the chambers for 5.56 NATO so that way there is no issues. Clearly there are some issues here so I would stop shooting it and return it to the seller or do something else with it.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Daddybang » 02 Apr 2018, 7:14 am

I reckon he's probably worked it out by now!! :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by straightshooter » 02 Apr 2018, 8:21 am

It would be extremely unusual for factory ammunition made to SAAMI or CIP standards to show evidence of excessive pressures in a chamber cut to SAAMI or CIP standards.
Chances are, yours' is a custom chamber or otherwise untypical of a factory chamber and this incompatibility is leading to indications of excessive pressure.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by southwest shooter » 02 Apr 2018, 11:56 am

Strange to say the least .
I've used loads of S&B ammo neve had a drama , always have a few boxes of the 204 stuff on hand , the howa loves it !
Used the 22lr and 22mag stuff also .
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by No1Mk3 » 02 Apr 2018, 12:38 pm

G'day All,
First off, it is NOT 5.56 NATO ammunition, but it does use the heavier NATO case, and so the headstamp. This ammo is loaded to higher pressure than most sporting 223, and is intended for the US market to operate reliably in semi-auto NATO spec rifles (Read AR/M 16, etc). It works OK in my Howa 223 VT, but only just, and I do get deep primer dents with some cratering. I no longer use it having bought a case of OSA 223. If the ammo doesn't work in your rifle, move it on or take it back and see if you can get a refund, but don't try saying it is military ammo because it isn't. The soft point alone gives that away. Cheers.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Gwion » 02 Apr 2018, 4:43 pm

Daddybang wrote:I reckon he's probably worked it out by now!! :lol: :drinks:


Yep... three years later! :lol:
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Apr 2018, 6:16 pm

Gwion wrote:
Daddybang wrote:I reckon he's probably worked it out by now!! :lol: :drinks:


Yep... three years later! :lol:


It's a:

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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Apollo » 02 Apr 2018, 7:21 pm

Gwion wrote:
Daddybang wrote:I reckon he's probably worked it out by now!! :lol: :drinks:


YES, 3 Years later.... Gee.

BTW... I sorted it out for him as mentioned. Not a problem and with tuned reloads it shot a lot better than 1/2 MOA.

The S&B rubbish all got pulled, cases reloaded with decent materials.

It was fun playing with a Howa for the time I had it. Nice rifle and very accurate, pity about the FFP Scope otherwise it may have been 1/4 MOA.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by scoobs » 02 Apr 2018, 7:27 pm

:lol: :lol:

on the topic of s&b. does anyone know if its loaded hotter than other factory rounds? i shoot it from my 308, and it seems to kick more than other 150gr rounds. a mate has noticed the same with his 30-30
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Apr 2018, 7:33 pm

My S&B 223 ammo were pretty warm.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by straightshooter » 03 Apr 2018, 7:58 am

Oldbloke wrote:
Gwion wrote:
Daddybang wrote:I reckon he's probably worked it out by now!! :lol: :drinks:


Yep... three years later! :lol:


It's a:

Fossil Thread.jpeg



Lets face it. There's been a paucity of interesting topics being generated in recent times, so I have difficulty understanding why forum 'old hands' would criticize somebody for dredging up and revitalizing an older topic that may be of particular interest to them.
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Re: Crap factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot

Post by Gwion » 03 Apr 2018, 1:56 pm

straightshooter wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
Gwion wrote:
Daddybang wrote:I reckon he's probably worked it out by now!! :lol: :drinks:


Yep... three years later! :lol:


It's a:

Fossil Thread.jpeg



Lets face it. There's been a paucity of interesting topics being generated in recent times, so I have difficulty understanding why forum 'old hands' would criticize somebody for dredging up and revitalizing an older topic that may be of particular interest to them.



Not criticising, just having a laugh that directing advice to an Original Post that is 3 years old is a bit like closing the gate after the bull has wandered off and died of old age and starvation! :lol:

No reason the topic of S&B ammo and 223rem v 5.56nato can't continue to be discussed.....
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