Electronic powder throwers

[bluerob]

I'm currently using the Redding Match thrower and I'm thinking about the electronic gadgets now available.

There's a big difference in price between the Lyman and the RCBS. Unsure which one to buy.

Anyone have any opinions on these?

[Chronos]

IMHO none of them will be more accurate than the redding thrower you're using

I have a redding and a harrell and both throw stick powders like 2206h and 2208 within .1gr once you get your technique consistent, and both throw charges exactly the same every throw with ball powders like 2205

Chronos

[bigfellascott]

I love the RCBS Chargemaster Combo, I don't shoot competitively so can't say if they would suit that side of reloading or not but I do have a friend who also uses one and gets some very impressive groups (he does all the full on case prep and sorting/weighing etc which of course makes one hell of a diff to results.

I just love the way it works away whilst you're seating the projectile in a freshly charged case, sort of makes it automated to some degree. I picked mine up for around $400 from memory I see they are nearly double that now.

I think you're powder throwers would be faster to use (mind you you can tune the RCBS to speed things right up if you want to) which is handy - not that I've done it.

[tom604]

lyman gen 6, great bit of kit for the price,quick and no technique to get right better out there but you pay for it

[bluerob]

Many thanks for the replies.

I'm keen on loading for accuracy, so, I might stay with the Redding until our dollar improves. I no longer hunt and only shoot paper.

The reviews on these newer electronic throwers suggest that they are accurate to .1gr as Chronos has pointed out (with regards to the Redding)??

The difference in price between the most popular is enough to wonder if quality and accuracy of the cheaper model might be an issue with safety? I'm not real keen on blowing up a .308 or a .300 Win Mag with a dodgy thrower.

[brett1868]

Saw this thread a couple days back and when doing some loading last night I thought to do a quick test of accuracy / consistency. I loaded 150 rounds of .375 Cheytac with 135Gr of AR2225 which is my standard load for this cartridge. On Apollo's recommendation a while ago I purchased a set of GemPro250 precision scales that are accurate to 0.02Gr that I use to check / adjust load weights for rounds that require that little extra OCD precision.
For throwers I use either a single or a pair of RCBS Charge Master 1500's depending on how many rounds I have to load. I threw 10 loads of 135Gr on each thrower and then weight checked them on the GemPro, surprisingly all 20 charges were within .16 of target so not quite within the claim of 0.1 +/- 0.1 the manufacturer claims. One point to note is that 15 of the charges were near identical (+/- 0.01) at 134.85Gr with only 1 charge being over target (135.08Gr) so it would appear they tend to err on the safe side which is a good point. The question would be if the small variations in powder weights translates to a measurable change of impact at distance? I suspect bugger all difference given that although the charges were a fraction under weight they were quite consistent.
(Charge Master scales had been powered on for at least 3hrs prior to loading and were calibrated with the same set of weights immediately prior loading and again before testing, GemPro powered on for 2hrs and calibrated with it's supplied calibration weight).

[bluerob]

Saw this thread a couple days back and when doing some loading last night I thought to do a quick test of accuracy / consistency. I loaded 150 rounds of .375 Cheytac with 135Gr of AR2225 which is my standard load for this cartridge. On Apollo's recommendation a while ago I purchased a set of GemPro250 precision scales that are accurate to 0.02Gr that I use to check / adjust load weights for rounds that require that little extra OCD precision.
For throwers I use either a single or a pair of RCBS Charge Master 1500's depending on how many rounds I have to load. I threw 10 loads of 135Gr on each thrower and then weight checked them on the GemPro, surprisingly all 20 charges were within .16 of target so not quite within the claim of 0.1 +/- 0.1 the manufacturer claims. One point to note is that 15 of the charges were near identical (+/- 0.01) at 134.85Gr with only 1 charge being over target (135.08Gr) so it would appear they tend to err on the safe side which is a good point. The question would be if the small variations in powder weights translates to a measurable change of impact at distance? I suspect bugger all difference given that although the charges were a fraction under weight they were quite consistent.
(Charge Master scales had been powered on for at least 3hrs prior to loading and were calibrated with the same set of weights immediately prior loading and again before testing, GemPro powered on for 2hrs and calibrated with it's supplied calibration weight).

Thanks for that. 135gns of powder per throw? I guess you aren't buying the small tubs of ADI?

The RCBS Chargemaster combo does have some good reviews. They who can't be mentioned are selling the Lyman at a reasonable price (compared to the RCBS). I'll stick with the Redding thrower and see how my shooting goes. A mate has a RCBS Chargemaster to compare. The Lyman is also getting reasonable reviews.

I'm not shooting that much rifle at the moment (medical), but, as soon as the weather warms up.....

[brett1868]

Almost 1.5kgs loaded last night alone and some weeks up to 8kgs loaded so I'm getting through some bottles. I've given up trying to get the 4kg in anything other than AR2218 as no one wants to either stock it or get it in for me. The ADI 500gm bottles are reasonable cheap when buying >6 at a time and I've found a good use for the empties. I use a small hole saw on the lid to make a barrel diameter hole then cut the side out with a Dremel, makes an excellent container to catch solvent / patches when cleaning barrels.
I originally used the Hornady "Lock n Load" Auto Charge dispenser which I was very happy with. I needed to buy a second one but couldn't find any so I bought the RCBS units as I like consistency in equipment. I'm going to have a bit of a sale of unused gear as soon as I get pictures organised and will add this to the list. Cleaned the workshop up over the weekend and found some gear that is surplus to requirements so it'll be sold off.

[Harper]

RCBS Chargemaster has gotten all the best reviews in what I've read.

[Lorgar]

I can only comment on the RCBS Chargemaster combo as that's what I've got, but mine has been great.

On average about 49 / 50 throws are spot on. 1 / 50 throws 0.1 or 0.2 over.

Only negative I'd highlight is it appears quite sensitive to temperature. I've quickly gave up on reloading on very hot days as the accuracy goes to pot.

Also starting a session when the temperature is expected to change significantly, like heating up from the morning to lunch on a hot day, proved too difficult. Scale constantly changing and needing recalibration.

On a comfortable, stable temperature though it's very good.

[Chronos]

Some good hard data there Brett, crikey, I thought loading 72gr in my .338WM was really pushing the powder supply friendship....you're loading nearly double that.

The truth is .16gr over 135gr is such a small amount but given 3 in 4 are identical you'd be backing yourself at all but the longest shots.

That said I'd be cranky if my .204R loads were varying by that much. .16 on 20-30gr is much more likely to be an issue, particularly if is drops you down out of an accuracy node.

I think the electronic scales in the dispenser units may be the real issue. When I was looking at moving from mechanical beam scales to electronic balances I spoke to a couple of places that sell scientific balances and the general consensus was once you start looking for accuracy the run of the mill electronic scales are only rated to .01grams, that's .154grain. So you need to step up to units with accuracy in the 100th of a gram, .001 of a gram is of course .0154 grains. These units are getting well over the $1000 mark and the sensitivity is through the roof. Labs running these kind of units are temp controlled and often the scales are mounted on dampened marble tables and shielded from EMR and of course wind.

I think powdered dispensers have their place but I'm not convinced that are significantly quicker than throwing a charge and trickling powder on beam scales and in convinced beam scales will be more accurate on average every day of the year.

All that said a well tuned rifle load is much less sensitive than a borderline load and changes in powder charge under .1gr per 30gr of powder shouldn't make any difference to accuracy at short to medium ranges, say 500m. And there are plenty of shooters who shoot fantastically well simply throwing powder from a good thrower directly into the case.

Chronos

[bluerob]

Thanks for the comments.

More great information.

Cheers guys

Rob,

[brett1868]

Some good hard data there Brett, crikey, I thought loading 72gr in my .338WM was really pushing the powder supply friendship....you're loading nearly double that.

The truth is .16gr over 135gr is such a small amount but given 3 in 4 are identical you'd be backing yourself at all but the longest shot

Easy to see how I get through so much powder, 375 Cheytac is what I shoot most in Sydney though I've finished load development and it's been shelved for special occasions now. A 0.16Gr variation on a 135gr load works out as a 0.12% error which is effectively nothing and might come down to only a couple sticks of propellant. To bring a little perspective into charge weights, the 338Lap Mag uses only 94Gr which makes it the 375 Cheytac's bitch but step up to the Barrett .416 (my favourite for distance) I'm loading 195Gr of AR2218 to launch a 395Gr brass VLD at 3150 fps or 20% faster then a 300Gr 338 while being 30% heavier. The big buggers get between 233 & 240Gr of AR2218 and I'm thankful I can get that in 4kg containers from our friendly Roseville shop.

I did some quick calculations based on a 0.16Gr variation in powder as a % of load and applied that % to velocity. (Generally I've found that a % charge variation doesn't always translate into the same % variation in velocity, just happened to be close in this example)

.204 28.5Gr BM8208 4088Fps (one of my regular loads and consistent on the chronograph)
Allowing a 0.56% variation equates 23fps variation and very close to the ES captured on my chronograph surprisingly. The variation in velocity equates to approx. .5" difference at 200m which is .25 MOA.
The point is that if you're requiring the best consistency by all means use the electronic throwers but adjust the final charge on a scale with finer then 0.1gn accuracy. I'm now using the GemPro250 which is popular amongst the precision reloading crowd and has a 0.02Gn accuracy.
As Others point out, scales are definitely affected by temp, wind, vibration and EMI particularity from ballasts used in fluro lights so try and be consistent in the environment you reload in. I try to get all my brass prepared and ready, once I've got a significant amount I'll then load the lot in one session.

[Rakk]

I think powdered dispensers have their place but I'm not convinced that are significantly quicker than throwing a charge and trickling powder on beam scales and in convinced beam scales will be more accurate on average every day of the year.

If you reload for multiple cartridges the speed/convenience of just punching in a number and hitting the dispense button can't be beat.

Up to the shooter if the margin of error is worth the convenience for them. No reason not to use one for hunting loads I'd say, match loads could/would be another story.

[Gun Nut Gordo]

I have the Hornady powder thrower and it's OK but what I found is it can throw over every now and then. So to reduce that I wrap a bit of masking tape around the tube so the powder sticks a bit and it has increased it's throwing plenty.

[Wobble]

I have the Hornady powder thrower and it's OK but what I found is it can throw over every now and then. So to reduce that I wrap a bit of masking tape around the tube so the powder sticks a bit and it has increased it's throwing plenty.

A McDonalds straw is another trick people report works well.

Can Google for the specifics.