Mild Load for 223

[Oldbloke]

Bantaz,
PM sent

[aam]

Looks like great data and good results. Is that this projectile
http://m.hornady.com/store/22-Cal-.224-45-gr-HORNET/

The one I had on hand when doing the load development was the Nosler brand.

Short chubby looking thing.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?p=982907

[aam]

This is the load development I've done.
Rifle is a remmy with factory barrel, 26''
I wanted to replicate 22 Hornet loads, considering I was running low on 22 hornet cases.
The report was not to loud to scare the rabbits, which is a good thing.


223 loads 45 Gr Hornet Nosler
AP50N
1885 ft/sec 6 gr
2107 ft/sec 7 gr
2323 ft/sec 8 gr
2387 ft/sec 8.5 gr
2490 ft/sec 9.5 gr
2628 ft/sec 10 gr
2704 ft/sec 10.5 gr Primer starting to flatten

Where were you getting best accuracy and what sort of accuracy are we talking?

9.5 and 10 gr seemed to give me better accuracy.
All testing was done at 100 metres. Group size for the two was just over a 1 1/2'', 1.589 thou to be exact.
I had a few smaller groups, the best was .960 but that was the exception rather than the rule. Must add that all groups were measured from outer edge to outer edge. 1 1/2" seems large but for me that's good enough to get bunnys out to 120 metres.

[Oldbloke]

My shoulder has improved so yesterday I finally got out to have a crack at a fox. The foxes won.
I also decided to try some squib loads in my Marlin xs7 in 223. Normal re-loads for this rifle shoots about 0.7 MOA but are yet to be fully developed. The rifle seems to prefer loads at the light end as does my other Marlin.

All 4 shot groups were shot with a left to right gusty approx 20 kmh wind over 75 long paces. (conditions were better prior to setting up. ) They were shot off the very sloping bonnet of my I30. So far from ideal conditions and I would expect the groups would shrink a little given a better situation.
Cases were FLRS & loads were 6, 7, 8, 9 & 9.5 grains of AS 50-N under a Hornady 55gn SP #2265.

Three of the 9.5 gr loads were sticky to extract and the primers were beginning to crater. The group also blew out to about 2 ½ inches. (so group not shown)
Note: the grid lines on the targets are ½ inch. All loads shot low as expected.
Speed is not known. But previously found data for green dot suggests from 1550 fps to 2250 fps. Noise level was much lower than normal loads, as expected. All groups are about 1.5 MOA.

I will now load a few more between 7 & 9 grains in the hope of improving the load a little.
The loads that are horizontal would seem to be wind effected but one group (9gr) is more vertical and the wind was much the same for all groups so that has me tossed. Any suggestions?

6 Gr.jpg (183.31 KiB) Viewed 6821 times

7 Gr.jpg (119.15 KiB) Viewed 6821 times

8 Gr.jpg (209.17 KiB) Viewed 6821 times

9 Gr.jpg (262.49 KiB) Viewed 6821 times

[tom604]

shot the 9 last and was getting tired and/or sick of shooting ? they all show promise but 7 looks to me to be the pick of the crop with no wind you will only see one hole

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, gonna load up a few more from 7 to 8gr in about .2 steps and try in better conditions when I get around to it. It will achieve what Im looking for. A more or less 22 win mag or Hornet load. Getting out when its calm is the key.
The conditions were pretty s**t but it has given enough indication to further refine the load.
I also need to finalise my normal load so hope to do them both at the same time.

[tom604]

are you going to reset your scope or just use the hash marks?,use the xhair for your normal load and then use the third or so hash mark for the mild loads?

[Oldbloke]

hash marks? Sorry don't understand

[Gwion]

He's wondering if you have a BDC reticle.

[Oldbloke]

No, don't have a bdc reticle. Will just wind it up a couple of inches.

[tom604]

you know i knew there was a name for them but couldn't remember it ah the joys of getting old

[Gwion]

OB. Looks like you're on the money but I'd begin my 2nd round testing at about 6.5 and go up to 8.6 in 0.3 increments. I agree that it looks like the best will be between 7&8 but you never can tell; you sweet spot might be just under 7 or just over 8. Getting up to 9 looks like its getting a bit wild.

With your shoulder, the wind and a less than ideal rest platform, it's hard to tell much from what you have done already. It may even be worth loading up 15 rounds @ 7gn and shooting 3 groups under better conditions before testing anymore.

The smaller the charge, the greater the impact of small changes, I find, so the 1gn increments leave a lot of room for exploration.

[Oldbloke]

Qwion,
Shoulder was no issue. I will be set up much better next time with table, bags and a stool.. The wind was the big factor. Probably should have waited for a better day.
The reason the loads were 1 gr apart was to just get an idea if the powder and projectile combination had a chance of working and give me an area to target for load developement. I think it did that. But yes, was thinking of trying a load a little inder 7gr. If I get moa I will be very happy. I only intend to use these out to about 120 mtrs so minute of fox looks achievable without too much work.
Raining today so might load up a few.

[Gwion]

I'm getting just on or under 1moa out of my Trailboss load at 1850fps... after 120, they start dropping fast!

Also made a similar load for a friend but using Nosler Varmints... he used it out to 150 and had the bullet fail to expand, so that is another consideration with mild loads... stay with in the limits of the projectile and trajectory!

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, I guessed about 120 mtrs would be the limit. But thats ok the ammo is for smallish properties, and will be heaps more effective than a 22RF.

As its raining today I loaded the following to try next time Im out. (In better weather I hope and set up)

Again 4 shot groups using same 55gr hornady SP and AS50N. Proj is 20 thou off the lands.
6.7, 7.0, 7.3, 7.6, & 7.9 grains.

Should achieve Minute Of Fox with one of those. And that will be better than I can shoot in field conditions.

[Oldbloke]

So, I got to eagle park about a week ago and shot off the above test loads. I wont bore you with the BS but I seem to have found a load that works in my 223.
7.6 gr of AS50N gave me a group about 1/2" at 50 meters. (target grid is 1/2") its about 2' low compared to my normal load as would be expected. Most of the other loads were around 1".
Just to roughly compare my load against a 22 win mag & Hornet. I ran the data that I had through the Hornady calculator.

Proj - FPS @ Muzzle - FPS @ 125 mtrs - Ft lb Energy & 125 mtrs

22 Win Mag 50 gr 1700 1107 136

Hornet 50 gr 2400 1951 421

223 squib 55gr 2100 1707 387

I have assumed that my load is 2100 fps But could be anything from 2000 to 2300 fps. Anyway I think it is safe to say it is about double the energy of the 22 mag and a little under the Hornet. I hope this helps anyone trying to develop light loads for their rifles. mm tables will not align for some reason.?

7.6 gr AS 50N @ 50 mtr.jpg (193.35 KiB) Viewed 3411 times

[Gwion]

Good stuff OB!

What sort of sound level does this load produce?

[Oldbloke]

I havn't fired a 22 Win Mag for a long time but I would say about the same, perhaps a bit more. A hell of a lot quieter than the normal 223 load. Which is what I was trying to achieve.

I think what this seems to show is that most of the faster powders including shotgun powders can be used for this sort of load. I had a good look around at loads in manuals and www. My problem was that there was a fair bit of data for cast proj's but not much for jacketed and being conservative I wanted to be as certain as I could that it would be safe before I started. I didn't want a proj jammed in the barrel because it was too mild. I will not use this load very often so seemed easier to just use the proj's I had rather than buy another mold. (But might change my mind yet)

I also use the same powder for cast proj's in my 3006. But would not use it for jacketed proj's as I think the pressures might be erratic with a 180gr jacketed proj due to the fast burning nature of the powder. I don't recall seeing data for that sort of load either.

If I start buying a powder or projectile for every load I'll end up with a lot of components never use.

[Gwion]

So what sort of case capacity/fill are you getting with that powder?

Any concerns about a flash over causing a pressure spike?

[Oldbloke]

So what sort of case capacity/fill are you getting with that powder?

Any concerns about a flash over causing a pressure spike?

I would have to go and check to be sure but about 60% of the case capacity. Not using any filler. Remember it is a fast burning powder, not slow.

Edit correction. About. 80% of case capacity

[deadkitty]

[quote="Oldbloke"]I have a 223 and have been thinking of developing a mild load for areas where distance is shortish and noise is an issue. Along the lines of a 22 mag or Hornet load.


I would like to use the Hornady 55gn Soft points using AS-50N. I'm temped to try it starting at 6.0 gn of AS-50N with the Hornady 55gn Soft point.

Not sure if this helps but here's my 4gr Tail Boss Load, I don't have a chrono, but it's sub sonic and about as loud as a standard .22LR. At 100 mtrs, I collected this from the target...backed my 2 mm mild steel which it managed to penetrate before falling just behing the target. Projectile was a Sierra 55gr Spitzer, and the remains weighed 53.4grs, so it held together pretty well.

[Oldbloke]

Deadkity,
Thanks for the pics. My concern was that they may not mushroom at the lower velocities but indication is that they will be fine. Great weight retention.
When I get back to where I fired my test rounds I will retrieve a few. The back stop was a log but I didnt have a method of retrieval. Also was running out of time.

[Broom]

Looks about perfect DK