Mild Load for 223

[Oldbloke]

I have a 223 and have been thinking of developing a mild load for areas where distance is shortish and noise is an issue. Along the lines of a 22 mag or Hornet load.
Having done the research I have found that most mild loads use cast projectiles but I would rather continue and use my usual projectile, a Hornady 55gn Soft point. I cant be bothered casting for the 223 as the projectiles are pretty cheap. As it happens I also have a heap of AS-50N which is listed in the ADI manual as equivalent to Green dot.

Notice that ADI lists a load as slow as 1060 using AS-30N which is equivalent to red dot with a Hornady FMJ projectile.

I would like to use the Hornady 55gn Soft points using AS-50N. I'm temped to try it starting at 6.0 gn of AS-50N with the Hornady 55gn Soft point.

Is this do-able and safe. What do the experts think?

Mild Loads.JPG (29.66 KiB) Viewed 8691 times

[Gwion]

Not an expert but I have a load with Trailboss that suits your description. I use 50gn Zmax.

[Oldbloke]

Bump

[Baronvonrort]

I am no expert.

I would use a specific projectile for this, it makes it easier to identify the lower loads to normal ammo.
The pressure is 23400 cup which is less than half the pressure of starting loads with something like 8208 so I reckon it will be pretty safe.

Trail Boss would be quieter because it's subsonic with ADI load data, it looks like you choice has more velocity, it just comes down to how much slower you want these mild loads.
I wouldn't go below ADI minimums,might as well have a try with what you have.

[Oldbloke]

Looks safe/ok to me. But it is very convienient to use the same projectile. However the projectile might be a bit too hard for those velocities upon impact.

[Gwion]

I'll have to retest the Trailboss load but I was sure it was a lot faster than my 22lr with Velocitors. It is very quiet, though.

[wheedle]

I have a 223 and have been thinking of developing a mild load for areas where distance is shortish and noise is an issue.

Suppressor permit

[Sender]

I dunno about for ADI powders but I can point you in the direction of Hodgdon Titegroup.

They provide data for this for exactly what you want.

55gr projectile
Hodgdon Titegroup
Max load
Grs: 3.1
FPS: 1,064
Pressure: 4,000 CUP

Search there data here to confirm if you like, http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[Baronvonrort]

Looks safe/ok to me. But it is very convienient to use the same projectile. However the projectile might be a bit too hard for those velocities upon impact.

ADI data for trailboss uses FMJ for 223/243/308 subsonic loads, over penetration is not usually a problem with subsonic loads.

My 7mm 150gr Noslers suggest on the box 1300 fps is minimum velocity for expansion.

[Bazooker]

You could use reduced loads of AR2206H (sold in the USA as H4895) pdf available here:-

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloadi ... coil-loads

Regards,

Baz.

[newsteadvic]

There is not as much data around for Hodgdon International (AS50N) compared to (Clays) AS30N or Universal(AP70N) unfortunately. It may be worth while emailing ADI to enquire about cast/light loads, they are quite accomodating and will email back in a few days. I have previously been sent useful, unpublished data like this for 30-30, 308, 303.

I am cautious about extrapolating load data from just a burning rate chart.

The reduced loads of H4895/AR2206h using the hodgdon reduced loads link works well, I have used it with .243.
Trail boss gives much slower, loads, replicating a 22LR. Remember trail boss is actually a fast pistol powder, just made bulky to reduce double load risks.
Titegroup and AS30 loads will work well , just make sure you have process to reduce the risk of a double charge - no progressive presses, don't use loading blocks. If I am loading tiny loads of fast powder I pick up a case, hold it upside down while weighing powder, pour powder in and seat bullet before I let go of the case.

Pm sent

[Vati]

There is not as much data around for Hodgdon International (AS50N) compared to (Clays) AS30N or Universal(AP70N) unfortunately.

You're probably familiar with this already but just in case, ADI provide list of approximate equivalent powders

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloade ... alents.asp

At least if there is not data for one in particular you can move to an equivalent powder or used data from another and move it back.

Better than nothing

[dickw5000]

For reduced velocity loads it is not just about the burning rate. The type of powder is important too. Flake, disc and tubular powders (bulky relative to their weight) allow you to largely fill the case to ensure even ignition. Stick and ball powders are generally unsuitable (although ADI 2206H can be reduced down to 60%, but it is not a fast burning powder, so probably not ideal for a .223).

I have had excellent results with IMR SR4759, which is tubular and fills the case. It is a little dirty. I have also used Green Dot, although Blue Dot would be better . I was given a tin of Green Dot and 7.5gr and a 46gr HP projectile is a very mild bunny load. It doesn't scare off the foxes and roos. By using hollow points I can easily distinguish between my reduced velocity loads and my regular loads which have 55gr soft points.

I have recently purchased 500 X 40gr z-max (for very small zombies???) and have made up test loads over a range of weights for both powders. I'll test them in the next few weeks.

[Tank]

Trailboss is the go to I reckon regardless of bullet type.
It's great fun stuff in near anything.
Regs,
Tank.

[Oldbloke]

I look forward to hearing of the results. I've been laid up but hope to have time in a few weeks to work on that Project

[aam]

This is the load development I've done.
Rifle is a remmy with factory barrel, 26''
I wanted to replicate 22 Hornet loads, considering I was running low on 22 hornet cases.
The report was not to loud to scare the rabbits, which is a good thing.


223 loads 45 Gr Hornet Nosler
AP50N
1885 ft/sec 6 gr
2107 ft/sec 7 gr
2323 ft/sec 8 gr
2387 ft/sec 8.5 gr
2490 ft/sec 9.5 gr
2628 ft/sec 10 gr
2704 ft/sec 10.5 gr Primer starting to flatten

[Oldbloke]

Looks like great data and good results. Is that this projectile
http://m.hornady.com/store/22-Cal-.224-45-gr-HORNET/

[Gwion]

This is the load development I've done.
Rifle is a remmy with factory barrel, 26''
I wanted to replicate 22 Hornet loads, considering I was running low on 22 hornet cases.
The report was not to loud to scare the rabbits, which is a good thing.


223 loads 45 Gr Hornet Nosler
AP50N
1885 ft/sec 6 gr
2107 ft/sec 7 gr
2323 ft/sec 8 gr
2387 ft/sec 8.5 gr
2490 ft/sec 9.5 gr
2628 ft/sec 10 gr
2704 ft/sec 10.5 gr Primer starting to flatten

Where were you getting best accuracy and what sort of accuracy are we talking?

[Oldbloke]

Bantaz,
PM sent

[aam]

Looks like great data and good results. Is that this projectile
http://m.hornady.com/store/22-Cal-.224-45-gr-HORNET/

The one I had on hand when doing the load development was the Nosler brand.

Short chubby looking thing.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?p=982907

[aam]

This is the load development I've done.
Rifle is a remmy with factory barrel, 26''
I wanted to replicate 22 Hornet loads, considering I was running low on 22 hornet cases.
The report was not to loud to scare the rabbits, which is a good thing.


223 loads 45 Gr Hornet Nosler
AP50N
1885 ft/sec 6 gr
2107 ft/sec 7 gr
2323 ft/sec 8 gr
2387 ft/sec 8.5 gr
2490 ft/sec 9.5 gr
2628 ft/sec 10 gr
2704 ft/sec 10.5 gr Primer starting to flatten

Where were you getting best accuracy and what sort of accuracy are we talking?

9.5 and 10 gr seemed to give me better accuracy.
All testing was done at 100 metres. Group size for the two was just over a 1 1/2'', 1.589 thou to be exact.
I had a few smaller groups, the best was .960 but that was the exception rather than the rule. Must add that all groups were measured from outer edge to outer edge. 1 1/2" seems large but for me that's good enough to get bunnys out to 120 metres.

[Oldbloke]

My shoulder has improved so yesterday I finally got out to have a crack at a fox. The foxes won.
I also decided to try some squib loads in my Marlin xs7 in 223. Normal re-loads for this rifle shoots about 0.7 MOA but are yet to be fully developed. The rifle seems to prefer loads at the light end as does my other Marlin.

All 4 shot groups were shot with a left to right gusty approx 20 kmh wind over 75 long paces. (conditions were better prior to setting up. ) They were shot off the very sloping bonnet of my I30. So far from ideal conditions and I would expect the groups would shrink a little given a better situation.
Cases were FLRS & loads were 6, 7, 8, 9 & 9.5 grains of AS 50-N under a Hornady 55gn SP #2265.

Three of the 9.5 gr loads were sticky to extract and the primers were beginning to crater. The group also blew out to about 2 ½ inches. (so group not shown)
Note: the grid lines on the targets are ½ inch. All loads shot low as expected.
Speed is not known. But previously found data for green dot suggests from 1550 fps to 2250 fps. Noise level was much lower than normal loads, as expected. All groups are about 1.5 MOA.

I will now load a few more between 7 & 9 grains in the hope of improving the load a little.
The loads that are horizontal would seem to be wind effected but one group (9gr) is more vertical and the wind was much the same for all groups so that has me tossed. Any suggestions?

6 Gr.jpg (183.31 KiB) Viewed 6814 times

7 Gr.jpg (119.15 KiB) Viewed 6814 times

8 Gr.jpg (209.17 KiB) Viewed 6814 times

9 Gr.jpg (262.49 KiB) Viewed 6814 times

[tom604]

shot the 9 last and was getting tired and/or sick of shooting ? they all show promise but 7 looks to me to be the pick of the crop with no wind you will only see one hole

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, gonna load up a few more from 7 to 8gr in about .2 steps and try in better conditions when I get around to it. It will achieve what Im looking for. A more or less 22 win mag or Hornet load. Getting out when its calm is the key.
The conditions were pretty s**t but it has given enough indication to further refine the load.
I also need to finalise my normal load so hope to do them both at the same time.

[tom604]

are you going to reset your scope or just use the hash marks?,use the xhair for your normal load and then use the third or so hash mark for the mild loads?

[Oldbloke]

hash marks? Sorry don't understand

[Gwion]

He's wondering if you have a BDC reticle.

[Oldbloke]

No, don't have a bdc reticle. Will just wind it up a couple of inches.

[tom604]

you know i knew there was a name for them but couldn't remember it ah the joys of getting old

[Gwion]

OB. Looks like you're on the money but I'd begin my 2nd round testing at about 6.5 and go up to 8.6 in 0.3 increments. I agree that it looks like the best will be between 7&8 but you never can tell; you sweet spot might be just under 7 or just over 8. Getting up to 9 looks like its getting a bit wild.

With your shoulder, the wind and a less than ideal rest platform, it's hard to tell much from what you have done already. It may even be worth loading up 15 rounds @ 7gn and shooting 3 groups under better conditions before testing anymore.

The smaller the charge, the greater the impact of small changes, I find, so the 1gn increments leave a lot of room for exploration.